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I am writing to you in regards to the proposed Mellow Mushroom in the Shoppes of Avondale.
I am deeply concerned by the way Mellow Mushroom has been treated by anti-business groups in our neighborhood. They have done and will continue to do everything in their power to prevent Mellow Mushroom from opening.
A politically connected vocal minority called “We Love Avondale, LLC” and Riverside Avondale Preservation have worked together to delay this project with hopes of making it go away. They have lobbied our City Council to pass anti-business legislation and spread lies about Mellow Mushroom and it's intended operation.
I believe that a Mellow Mushroom in Avondale is a great project for the neighborhood.They will be removing an eyesore by building on a vacant lot. They will be providing jobs during bad economic times. They will create another dining option for my family.
As an Avondale resident, I look forward to the day that I can walk down to the Mellow Mushroom with my family. My boys love Mellow Mushroom and all parents know how important family friendly dining options.
This Thursday there is a Planning Commission meeting at 5pm at City Hall. I hope you can attend and speak in support of Mellow Mushroom Avondale.
This Planning Commission Meeting has been called because Mellow Mushroom is seeking an administrative deviation for outside sales and service of alcohol.
Mellow Mushroom Avondale is not seeking any special treatment. They want to be treated like the other existing restaurants in Avondale that have received the same deviation.
We all have busy lives and some are hesitant to get involved in city politics.I never considered getting involved until I saw the treatment multiple small businesses have received at the hands of RAP and other neighborhood busy bodies. I have also experienced it as a homeowner and now a business owner.
We cannot continue to allow a select few to determine what businesses can open in our neighborhood.
Please come to the Planning Commission meeting on Thursday. At a minimum fill out a speaker’s card and express your support for Mellow Mushroom Avondale. You do not have to speak. You can hand in your speakers card as a show of support.
I have also attached a Mellow Mushroom info sheet in PDF form that should be of use.
Hope to see you on Thursday!
Editorial by Ben Davis
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johnny_simpatico
September 25, 2012, 09:02:09 AMI agree 100%. The power of the NIMBY brigades from RAP, their puppet, Jim Love, and other pressure groups could have been offset by some leadership on the issue from the Brown administration. For example, the specious arguments about parking and lack of access for emergency vehicles could have been addressed by (properly) restricting parking to one side of narrow streets and ticketing illegally parked vehicles.
Lucasjj
September 25, 2012, 09:46:23 AMI have a board meeting at 6 that night that I have to attend, but I will come down and at least fill out a card. I have stayed out of this discussion, but have thouroughly read the threads regarding this. It is ridiculous that this has gone on this long and taken this much effort. The fact that an adaptive reuse was turned down by a preservation group really speaks to the absurdity of this situation.
We need to encourage infill in this city, we need to encourage reuse, and we need to encourage businesses that contribute to active streets and pedestrian friendly environments.
jaxjags
September 25, 2012, 10:59:16 AMWe need to support change. Without change there is no progress. Without progess there is no improvement.
Tacachale
September 25, 2012, 12:58:45 PMWell stated Ben. This really gives the lie to "Rowdy Pizza Crowd" fears.
zedsdead
September 25, 2012, 01:19:05 PMThe problem is we have allowed the creation of an highly unattractive business environment in Riverside - one that is social (e.g. We Love Avondale, RAP) and legal (Councilman Love's ordinance). This will deter investors for YEARS to come. That means empty buildings, derelict lots, lower tax revenues and unemployed locals. It makes me sick.
Captain Zissou
September 25, 2012, 01:20:10 PMAll Mellow wants is the same treatment that other restaurants are getting on the strip. However, unlike those other restaurants, Mellow is trying to make the neighborhood better by considering alternative parking methods, green space, adaptive reuse, and general concern for the neighborhood's problems. I hope Thursday night goes well and that the community shows up in force to support Mellow.
martybjaguars
September 25, 2012, 02:08:10 PMIt is nice to hear a clear, rational discussion of the facts. Thank you for voicing the understated opinion of the majority. Thank you, sir.
TallGirl
September 25, 2012, 04:09:36 PMAs a neighboring small business owner, I agree with zedsdead's comment. This bullying will certainly deter future growth and development as well as make existing businesses, who are feeling bullied, reconsider renewing existing leases. this will eventual lead to the demise of a great neighborhood. I love Avondale and I love Mellow Mushroom, why can't we all love both?
zedsdead
September 25, 2012, 04:28:54 PM^ Thanks
RockStar
September 25, 2012, 08:21:11 PMI don't know. There's gotta be some conflict of interest here...I mean a beer guy supporting a pizza place? Sounds fishy...
KEGreene1
September 26, 2012, 09:26:37 AMWell said Ben.
Captain Zissou
September 26, 2012, 09:35:29 AMLast night I had a dream about the planning commission meeting. Is that weird??
In my opinion, MM is more in direct competition with Ben's taproom than with bluefish. On a friday or saturday night, I'm not going to drop $60 on a seafood dinner, but I would be deciding between grabbing a snack and some beers at MM or going to Intuition to play cornhole in the brewery bar. For me personally, the two are more of substitutes for eachother than Blue fish is for either one. There is a demographic that would feel the same way, but also there is a large group who will never go to the taproom at IAW, but they would choose between the two Avondale restaurants for their sunday dinner. Also, I know that IAW distributes kegs to hundreds of restaurants in the area and that this doesn't represent their sole income stream, but last year their tap room operations were a significant portion of their total revenue.
All this is to say that Ben is supporting someone who is, at least in part, in competition with him. Ben is doing this because he is confident in his own product so that he can put improving his neighborhood and his city above petty squabbles between competitors. Thanks for what you do, Ben.
Non-RedNeck Westsider
September 26, 2012, 09:53:34 AMfrom FB:
dougskiles
September 26, 2012, 10:04:48 AM^Is that today?
The reason I ask is that the Context Sensitive Streets committee meets in Council Chambers at 4 pm. If you are planning on coming to the Mellow Mushroom meeting, consider coming early to catch the discussion about Context Sensitive Streets (and an opportunity to express an opinion about the Mobility Plan).
riverside planner
September 26, 2012, 10:11:41 AMDoug, Mellow Mushroom will be on tomorrow's Planning Commission meeting agenda, which begins at 1pm. Agenda can be found here: http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/docs/current-planning-division/planning-commission-docs/2012-pc-agendas/2012-proposed-agenda/9-27-12---final-agenda.aspx
Captain Zissou
September 26, 2012, 10:36:41 AMSo is the meeting at 5 or 1?
stephendare
September 26, 2012, 05:24:09 PMJust a helpful reminder from those asps at We Love Avondale that tomorrow the planning commission is meeting on the subject of Mellow Mushrooms (three times altered to suit RAP) new development in Avondale.
If_I_Loved_you
September 26, 2012, 05:51:16 PM"White anglo-saxon protestant. this usually refers to affluent people in the Avondale / Riverside area, but also whites of "old money" in other areas throughout the country."
Pinky
September 26, 2012, 10:29:50 PMI think he meant "asps", a type of snake..
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asp_(reptile)
Because of course we all know that Jacksonville is not run by the WASPS; down here it would be the MOB (Minority-Opposed Baptists) or in Avondale its CAMEs (Competition-Avoidant Merchant Episcopalians).
mtraininjax
September 26, 2012, 11:08:28 PMStephen,
I took the signs from the Grace Baptist Chruch from their "public right of way" and placed them in Jim Love's yard. Seems only fitting after the rant that Littlepage had in the TU about illegal SNIPE SIGNS. (And everyone thinks I am with WLA, f'in idiots!)
CZ, this is complete and UTTER bullshit. You know it and I know it, what Mellow wants to build is something larger and grandeur than what Mojo's got away with. Mojo's took a furniture store and shoe store and turned it into a bar/restaurant. John wants to expand an existing restaurant/shoe store. You think people want to question his motives?
People, the signs up in Avondale are there from WLA and are illegal as hell. Take them and burn them, burn them all!
thelakelander
September 26, 2012, 11:40:50 PMWhat's wrong with Mojo's building? Did they construct something the code didn't allow? The same goes for Mellow. Is there some hidden law on the books that restricts a pizza restaurant from opening? Does this regulation come with size requirements? If not, what's the guy doing wrong? It's not like he's trying to squeeze a Walmart in there.
If_I_Loved_you
September 26, 2012, 11:58:10 PMTimkin
September 27, 2012, 12:46:48 AMI just hate that the gas station now has to be demoed. Id rather it had been altered to be a restaurant. Now it has to go in a modern stucco wonder.
Forgive me , but I am at a loss for why the Station MUST be demolished. makes no sense whatsoever.
Overstreet
September 27, 2012, 07:19:31 AMThe last Mello Mushroom I visited was in Midtown Atlanta next to my mail box store. It would have fit in that area just fine.
Pinky
September 27, 2012, 07:42:28 AMAgreed; it sucks. The problem in a nutshell is that since it was built in '64 it's not a Contributing Structure by city standards and therefore wouldn't be eligible for the parking waiver. There was a plan on the table that provided all but (I think) 3 of the required spots and kept the gas station intact, but WLA and RAP opposed it.
Crazy.
strider
September 27, 2012, 08:31:55 AMLooking at a basic time line, sometime in the twenties, a brick 2 story building was built on this lot. Then in the early fifties, that building was torn down for a simple gas station. Then in the early sixties, that gas station was torn down for a fancy one. Now, fifty odd years later, that gas station will be torn down to construct a building that sort of looks like the earlier twenties building.
I think there are several things wrong illustrated here. The first is the failure to recognize that newer buildings can and often do have a significant historic value above just being an old building needing work anyway. I think this will be seen more and more in the next few years.
The second thing is that if we are going to lose a historically significant building for any reason, what is built in it's place should reflect current innovative design rather that try to simulate some older style. Many other historic areas of the country have recognized this, perhaps someday we will too.
The last thing is that organizations like RAP should not have any say in the use as this gas station is coming down not because the owner of the property wanted it gone, but because RAP ( and others) got involved in things it should not be and is forcing an owner to do their bidding rather than what is actually best for the community.
Captain Zissou
September 27, 2012, 09:54:44 AMIf_I_Loved_you
September 27, 2012, 10:26:52 AMIf_I_Loved_you
September 27, 2012, 10:45:33 AMTimkin
September 27, 2012, 04:55:34 PMIt is bullshit that demo is being forced.
Timkin
September 27, 2012, 05:15:57 PMStephen.. Can you please ask ( or perhaps you already know this) if the Station must go..and if so, WHY?
I am not understanding that.
mtraininjax
September 27, 2012, 09:31:28 PMTimken, the station does not have to go. John wants a bigger space than the 6000 square feet of 'town and Benham's, which is why he wants to tear down the garage and utilize the lot and space for a larger total restaurant. The 'town/Benham space is on a separate parcel from the gas station, so he can leave it as is, sell it to 7-11, or tear it down, as it is not a contributing structure, from the RAP website.
It is completely and totally up to John on what he wants to do with it. No one is telling him to tear it down, no order to tear it down, nothing wrong with it as it is.
Unless John rezoned the 'town/Benham area to include the gas station, which the COJ Property Appraiser does not show, the 2 can remain separate.
Tacachale
September 28, 2012, 11:18:08 AMBS. He didn't want to tear down the station, he wanted to adapt it. He agreed to tear it down and replace it with a parking lot as a compromise. And he still got run through the gauntlet for his effort.
If_I_Loved_you
September 28, 2012, 11:28:05 AMCoolyfett
October 14, 2012, 11:31:30 AMAre there any other mm in duval or is this their first attempt?
Adam W
October 14, 2012, 01:28:50 PMI believe there is one at the beach and there might be one on the southside. I thought there used to be one on the westside near the Target on 17, but I don't think it's there anymore (or don't know if I am totally remembering that incorrectly).
fsquid
October 14, 2012, 01:55:32 PMNot Duval, but one in Fleming Island
Adam W
October 14, 2012, 02:04:25 PMDid they close the one at the beach?
Tacachale
October 14, 2012, 02:11:03 PMThere are Mellow Mushrooms in Jax, all owned by Valentino: in Jacksonville Beach, Southside by Tinseltown, and Fleming Island.
ben says
October 14, 2012, 02:25:30 PMWhy are you so willfully ignorant? Anyone who has watched this thing go down from the start knows thats BS....
Intuition Ale Works
October 15, 2012, 05:07:33 PMCool article in Southern Living about re-purposing Gas Stations..
http://thedailysouth.southernliving.com/2012/10/08/restored-gas-stations/
What could have been...
JeffreyS
October 15, 2012, 08:28:00 PMGood article. I could picture the Gas Station on San Juan and Hershel.
Timkin
October 15, 2012, 09:07:30 PMIts not too late for this Station, the one on Herschel and San Juan.
We have a derelict group forcing this one to be torn down and THEY STILL don't want MM in Avondale. It isn't even about the Gas Station. Its about trying to get MM to fold.
If I were Valentino, I would now fight them with everything and insist the Station stays. It actually would cost more to refurbish the Station , than new build probably, but it would be a HIT, and that is why the group does not want them here.
Mellow Mushroom is going to ruin the neighborhood. Bull$#!t!
If_I_Loved_you
October 15, 2012, 10:37:41 PMfsquid
October 15, 2012, 11:43:25 PMI've seen petrol stations in both Memphis and Charlotte turned into eateries and it makes for a cool atmosphere.
mikea
November 11, 2012, 08:59:53 AMI too am a resident and want the "Nazi's" to stop their narrow minded bible belt baptist mentality! If it were a christian bookstore these idiots would be helping to build it.
Looking forward to another Mellow Mushroom in Jax!!!!
Spence
December 10, 2012, 01:45:38 AMAND
Dennis
December 19, 2012, 08:31:16 AMI know why not turn The shops of Avondale into a New Orleans type Bourbon street.. MM will make the sixth bar and we will have a good start.
Dennis
ChriswUfGator
December 19, 2012, 08:34:32 AMIt's a pizza restaurant, not a "bar."
Aren't I still allowed to have a drink with dinner in this country?
JeffreyS
December 19, 2012, 08:36:25 AMMM is a restaurant. So is the Brick, Mojo and Blue Fish. I think of Monty's as a Bar even though they serve food. Am I missing a tenant who is primarily a Bar.
cline
December 19, 2012, 08:44:03 AM^Monty's doesn't serve food anymore-at least not actual entrees. I think they may have apps though. Monty's is a true bar in every sense of the word yet we here nothing from the WLA/anti-MM shills about that place and it's been there for decades. Pretty interesting actually. I assume it is because that same crowd probably enjoys the convenience of being able to get their booze via drive thru. Maybe it makes them nostalgic or something. Somehow they think a pizza joint is much more rowdy/scary/undesirable than a drive thru package store with a lounge attached.
JeffreyS
December 19, 2012, 08:52:05 AMCalling MM a bar is the same as saying you are going on a pub crawl to Outback, Olive Garden and Ruth's Chris.
Captain Zissou
December 19, 2012, 08:56:24 AMBourbon Street is better at managing their parking situation, so that may not be such a bad idea. It also would create jobs in the area, which no good American is against. Thanks for the constructive input*, Dennis.
*I know that you weren't trying to be helpful in any way, but I'm just trying to make something out of your dreadfully sour lemons.
fsujax
December 19, 2012, 08:58:56 AMwell, it is much easier to get around NO because their transit system is far superior to ours.
Dennis
December 19, 2012, 03:11:56 PMI know why not turn The shops of Avondale into a New Orleans type Bourbon street.. MM will make the sixth bar and we will have a good start.
Dennis
Tacachale
December 19, 2012, 03:34:43 PM^Que? Mellow Mushroom is a pizza place. I know the pizza crowd can get pretty rowdy, but come on.
Captain Zissou
December 19, 2012, 03:48:46 PMDude. We got it. Saying it twice doesn't make your comment any less wrong. MM is a restaurant that is more family friendly than 3 who are on the strip. It is no more a bar than the Jags are a superbowl contender.
TPC
December 19, 2012, 03:54:24 PMI wish it was already open. I'm hungry for a Holy Shiitake pizza right now.
MEGATRON
December 19, 2012, 03:55:05 PMstephendare
December 19, 2012, 05:57:27 PMWell if the neighborhood supports another rendering plant and slaughterhouse like the one that they have at Brick, and the full scale fishery like the one at Blue Fish, or the agricultural plantation like the one they have at Biscotti's then I would agree with you Dennis.
But does this mean that the number of live chickens being killed in broad daylight on St. Johns Avenue will be increased to intolerable levels? Inquiring minds want to know!
tufsu1
December 19, 2012, 10:21:27 PMnot saying I agree....but....
from what I've been told, the definition of a nightclub in the city apparently has changed....any new establishment that has live music after midnight will now be considered a "nightclub".
stephendare
December 19, 2012, 10:23:32 PMLike midnight mass at church?
stephendare
December 19, 2012, 10:27:06 PMIn any case, whatever semantics people might be throwing around, no ordinance has been passed changing the language, which is kind of important.
Also that would drastically relabel the two 4COP liscensed establishments that are already out there. Both the Brick and Blue Fish hold actual liquor and live performance liscenses.
On the other hand, Mellow Mushroom has an SRX liscense, which makes it by Statute (which is higher up on the food chain than Ordinance or Policy) a restaurant.
stephendare
December 19, 2012, 10:28:55 PMThis exact issue came up monday afternoon, while I was in Avondale discussing the attempt by one of the We Love Avondale members to have Blue Fish shut down as a bar, effectively rendering their liquor liscense useless.
tufsu1
December 19, 2012, 10:30:29 PMmy understanding is that an official change was made last year...which is partially why MM requested a variance/exception
stephendare
December 19, 2012, 10:32:30 PMI think you might have been misinformed, TUFSU, the liscensing guidelines are pretty cut and dried and they originate from the state with a pretty inseparable link to how liquor liscensing works
tufsu1
December 19, 2012, 10:34:33 PMI believe what folks are referring to are local zoning rules
stephendare
December 19, 2012, 10:35:54 PMthey might be, but statute would still trump ordinance.
Dennis
December 20, 2012, 07:31:29 AMDUDE
A word that americans use to address each other. Particularly stoners, surfers and skaters.
ChriswUfGator
December 20, 2012, 07:33:44 AMThat makes an apple a pomegranate, how?
MEGATRON
December 20, 2012, 09:00:33 AMdowntownjag
December 20, 2012, 09:12:42 AMI've scanned all 5 pages, and maybe missed something, but what became of the vote? What's the status of this project as of 9:12AM 12/20/12? :-)
Dennis
December 20, 2012, 09:24:05 AMCaptain Zissou
December 20, 2012, 09:48:17 AMYour innability to contribute to the discussion is truly astounding. To your credit, in the back of my head I’m thinking that you’re not a loony old bat who forgot to take their meds, but a clever wordsmith just having some fun. Your lack of coherence is too profound not to be intentional.
If this is representative of the kinds of things valentino has to deal with, then I have true sympathy for the man. As the old saying goes, It's impossible to win in an argument when the other side doesn't feel the need to make any sense.
Dennis
December 20, 2012, 09:59:04 AMThank you...
If_I_Loved_you
December 20, 2012, 10:03:31 AMcline
December 20, 2012, 10:07:41 AMLook on the bright side Dennis, when St. Johns Avenue turns into Bourbon Street you'll be able to increase your rents tremendously. Have you seen how much it costs to rent places in the French Quarter? $$$$$$ And since you said you provide off-street parking-even more money for you. Cha-ching.
thelakelander
December 20, 2012, 10:28:45 AMSo there goes the argument of declining property values.....
stephendare
December 20, 2012, 10:58:29 AMWell according to Dennis, he bought his property 30 years ago, when the property wasnt worth very much. Since then the commerical establishments have invested millions of dollars in the community and the property values have risen substantially.
Interesting thing about Alicia Grant.
Apparently she also picked up very cheap property in Avondale. She spent approximately 1/10th of what Valentino alone has spent thus far.
Dennis
December 21, 2012, 07:28:05 AMOf course..
Tacachale
December 21, 2012, 11:00:56 AMYou really think an abandoned gas station turning into a pizza restaurant, or the emergence of a destination retail strip in your neighborhood, will decrease your property value?
Dennis
December 21, 2012, 12:47:16 PMno
cline
December 21, 2012, 01:01:16 PM^So your issue is the fact that you currently have to deal with "drunks" waking you and your tenants up night. I would recommend directing your anger towards The Brick, Monty's, Blue Fish et. al. since they are the ones causing your problem. MM hasn't been built yet so obviously they are not the problem. Or perhaps you should direct your anger towards some of your neighbors who also very well may be the drunks awakening you at night.
Dennis
December 21, 2012, 01:31:33 PMWhen is enough enough?
cline
December 21, 2012, 01:36:10 PMWhen you open up your checkbook and purchase all the available commercial properties at the Shoppes so you can redevelop them as you wish. The gas station property was for sale for a long time. You had your chance.
funwithteeth
December 21, 2012, 01:40:39 PMDennis is like one of those old AIMbots that had a limited stock of phrases to which to respond to whatever you said to it.
drhandbook
December 21, 2012, 02:45:07 PMI'm not going to be happy until I can pass out nekkid in the middle of the shoppes chugging bottles of night train while waiting for my pizza.
Dennis
December 22, 2012, 08:03:50 AMLove you all..
I am off for a cruise over Christmas..Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and a great New Year...
Dennis
520 days at sea
45 cruises
12 cruise lines
T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific, Rio/ Amazon, Alaska
If_I_Loved_you
December 22, 2012, 08:44:16 AMKaiser Soze
December 22, 2012, 10:12:27 AMsheclown
December 22, 2012, 11:11:14 AMPinky
December 23, 2012, 08:44:33 AMAccording to Dennis The Spam Bot, that's already a regular occurrence already in
Sodom And Gomorraherr, I mean Avondale And Riverside. Well, except for the yummy pizza...Adam W
December 23, 2012, 08:51:56 AMSo he posted something twice and now he's a "spambot?" Seems really have little tolerance for people with differing opinions. I may not agree with Dennis, but geez...
Gators312
December 23, 2012, 09:56:51 AMI don't think it's because a difference of opinions, I think it's his failure to participate in a rational discussion and responding with one word answers and general nonsense that has him labeled as a
Bot.
If_I_Loved_you
December 23, 2012, 10:37:39 AMAdam W
December 23, 2012, 11:24:31 AMMaybe. But it seems that when a dissenting opinion is voice re Mellow Mushroom, the wagons are circled and the knives come out. There is no room for a difference of opinion (in the eyes of some).
In my opinion, Dennis attempted to state his position at first and got nothing but grief. Of course, you've got to have a bit of a thick skin to last on this forum. But at the same time, if you really want the other side of the story re Mellow Mushroom and if you want to open up a dialogue with people who are in opposition to the restaurant (e.g. people who aren't regular forum members), it might be wise to tread a bit lightly and try to engage with them.
I'm not directing that at you, Gators, or at Pinky, even - it's just a general observation.