Triangles of service that rail could offer to Florida
Here are five reasons why Amtrak may be the solution to Florida's commuter and intercity rail problems.
1. Amtrak already has operating agreements with the freight railroads. They also have qualified crews to operate trains over the Florida territory as well as passenger equipment and maintenance facilities within the state. These are features that no one else can offer.
2. The liability agreements that are required to run passenger trains on a freight railroad are already in place. This issue was the main sticking point in negotiations to operate Sunrail in Central Florida. Amtrak has the problem solved.
3. Amtrak is likely to receive an increase in federal funding in the coming years with a pro rail administration in Washington DC. This money could be spent within the state without going through the complicated federal funding process.
Quote
Emeryville, CA's (pop. 6,882) Amtrak station is a part of a 20-acre mixed-use transit oriented development called Emery Station. It includes 580,000 square feet of office/retail space and 101 condominiums. This station is located five miles north of Oakland's station and is a part of Amtrak's San Joaquin corridor, operating between Oakland and Sacramento.
The Emeryville station is served with four daily roundtrips between Oakland and Sacramento. Amtrak also runs a corridor service that connects Los Angeles and San Deigo, called the Pacific Surfliner. Along this corridor, Amtrak trains run every hour, making it ideal for commuter service.
A similar service in Florida would provide opportunities for cities like St. Augustine, Lakeland, Daytona Beach and Tallahassee to create transit oriented development within their boundaries.
The Emeryville station is served with four daily roundtrips between Oakland and Sacramento. Amtrak also runs a corridor service that connects Los Angeles and San Deigo, called the Pacific Surfliner. Along this corridor, Amtrak trains run every hour, making it ideal for commuter service.
A similar service in Florida would provide opportunities for cities like St. Augustine, Lakeland, Daytona Beach and Tallahassee to create transit oriented development within their boundaries.
4. Track capacity and infrastructure improvements needed for commuter rail systems such as Sunrail will also be needed for Amtrak. Partnering with Amtrak lays the foundation and reduces the cost for future commuter rail systems all across Florida.
5. Amtrak wants to increase their presence in Florida. Amtrak views Florida as their number one under-served market in the entire nation. Previous negotiations with Florida DOT officials yielded no results because of a lack of interest. Pressure needs to be applied to state officials to get them on board with the vision Amtrak has for Florida.
A statewide intercity rail system (corridors highlighted in green) would connect Florida's major metropolitan areas with each other and many of their rapidly growing suburban and bedroom communities.
Other Metro Jacksonville articles about Amtrak corridor service:
November 13, 2008
Amtrak Hiawatha Corridor Service
November 20, 2008
Amtrak Capitol Corridor Service
December 12, 2008
Amtrak Keystone Corridor Service
February 6, 2009
Amtrak Pacific Surfliner Corridor Service
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BridgeTroll
May 21, 2009, 06:51:45 AMGreat article... Cmon... Amtrak!
hightowerlover
May 21, 2009, 08:38:55 AMtad bit jacksonville-centric dont you think? how much traffic really goes from jacksonville to ocala to lakeland?
Lunican
May 21, 2009, 08:57:28 AMYou are right. It's Jacksonville-centric because that is how the existing rail lines are set up.
Doctor_K
May 21, 2009, 09:02:08 AMOf course it's Jax-centric. You *are* on MetroJacksonville.com, after all.
fsujax
May 21, 2009, 09:16:37 AMAll rails lead to Jacksonville!
Ocklawaha
May 21, 2009, 09:19:08 AMConsidering that we are the 5Th largest rail center in North America, own the largest depot (unused) South of Washington, D.C., and that every passenger rail car from ANYWHERE to Florida will pass within mere feet of our downtown station.... Yep, it's Jacksonville.
OCKLAWAHA
SunKing
May 21, 2009, 09:20:25 AMI currently drive or fly to either Ft. Lauderdale or Tampa several times a month. The Southwest flights are always full and frequently delayed. I would gladly take the rail if available. There is no reason that there is not a high speed train on the I95 corridor to Miami but Lakeland/Tampa would be well utilized as well.
JeffreyS
May 21, 2009, 11:38:52 AMWho wrote today's article.
Ron Mexico
May 21, 2009, 11:41:21 AMWould this be done in conjunction with new locomotives, equipment, etc?
I took Amtrak to Tampa last year...it took me 1.5 days to get there after all of the maintenance problems, delays, etc. I actually had to take a bus the last 100 miles.
They would need an upgrade.
JaxNole
May 21, 2009, 12:44:41 PMCould someone PM me with a matter-of-fact (non-emotional) email to send to AMTRAK? The content should be elevated so as to speak to the target audience: AMTRAK officials.
Included should be rail-impact studies, traffic counts, even cost analyses and respective references.
Thanks.
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 12:53:13 PMThe Metro Jacksonville staff. It was a joint effort in preparation for today's rail workshops. We sent a few MJ guys down to Orlando to participate in the Florida HSR and Intercity passenger rail workshop today.
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 12:56:26 PMI took Amtrak to Tampa last year...it took me 1.5 days to get there after all of the maintenance problems, delays, etc. I actually had to take a bus the last 100 miles.
They would need an upgrade.
An upgrade in service and quality is the goal. If a statewide corridor system can be established, the problems you described above would be taken care of (at least in Florida).
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 12:59:37 PMIncluded should be rail-impact studies, traffic counts, even cost analyses and respective references.
Thanks.
This is something Amtrak would like to do with Florida as a partner. FDOT, regional transportation authorities and local governments are the entities we need to get on board. We don't have a form letter right now, but thats something we'll get to work on.
ralpho37
May 21, 2009, 01:44:39 PMI took Amtrak to Tampa last year...it took me 1.5 days to get there after all of the maintenance problems, delays, etc. I actually had to take a bus the last 100 miles.
They would need an upgrade.
An upgrade in service and quality is the goal. If a statewide corridor system can be established, the problems you described above would be taken care of (at least in Florida).
I don't believe Amtrak has any specific plans to implement new equipment in Florida, but it sounds as if they have an interest in doing so as they did in California. Amtrak California has unique locomotives and passenger equipment that they do not use elsewhere, and their "interest" in Florida makes it sounds as if they want to do the same here. Most of Amtrak's difficulties lie in underfunding (ill-repaired equipment, excessive delays, etc.) but luckily they have received additional funds from the federal government so some of these issues may be resolved soon.
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 01:46:28 PMAmtrak California. That's exactly what we want here. Same type of service and goals.
zoo
May 21, 2009, 03:59:52 PMHmm. Amtrak wants it. Populace wants it. Can somebody get the bureaucracy out of the way!
coredumped
May 21, 2009, 04:37:35 PMI would love to see something parallel to I-95. With so many cities along the east cost (and they're not going to get smaller) rail along the east of florida would be essential.
Doctor_K
May 21, 2009, 04:39:33 PMThere's a track (probably more than one, no doubt) that pretty much runs parallel to US1 already, all the way down at least through Brevard County.
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 05:29:11 PMThe FEC line was there first. I-95 parallels it from Miami to Jacksonville. Btw, I've been told at the statewide HSR and intercity passenger rail workshop in Orlando today, the only representation from Jacksonville was Metro Jacksonville.
BridgeTroll
May 21, 2009, 07:14:54 PMIm shocked... Good work guys...
tufsu1
May 21, 2009, 08:15:42 PMnot that its a good excuse, but we did have a really big regional visioning event here today...most of the JTA folks were there....along with reps from FDOT like Brad Thoburn...and hey, even the Governor stopped by!
Steve
May 21, 2009, 08:34:49 PMOkay, but JTA couldn't send SOMEBODY?
tufsu1
May 21, 2009, 09:35:55 PMlike I said...not a good excuse
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 09:59:02 PMIts all good. We'll be more than happy to take over the rail discussion with the bigwigs. We made some great contacts today. Btw, word is that they were upset Crist was not present.
tufsu1
May 21, 2009, 10:34:58 PMthey shouldn't have been...his visit here was not exactly useful
ralpho37
May 21, 2009, 10:59:04 PMThe main issues that stand in the way of an "Amtrak Florida" are money to make it happen and liability with the freight railroads. The leaders of Jacksonville really need to get on the ball with the downtown transportation center to make the most of this kind of opportunity.
Charles Hunter
May 21, 2009, 11:17:32 PMI think the MJ front page article said there should be no liability issues with Amtrak on the freight rail lines, as they already have liability agreements. What sank SunRail was trying to create a new liability agreement.
And yes, local leaders need to get on the ball with getting the downtown transportation center going.
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 11:36:23 PMThose were the issues with Sunrail. Amtrak already operates on freight rail lines, so their liability agreements are already in place. Amtrak has also seen an increase in billions of funding in the last year to improve and expand service. The main issue for an "Amtrak Florida" is for the state to agree to jump on board for the ride.
JaxNole
May 21, 2009, 11:40:45 PMSo what will it take to convince local stakeholders for their buy-ins?
How to communicate the value of Amtrak service so it is removed from the shelf and assigned high priority?
thelakelander
May 21, 2009, 11:47:08 PM^Perhaps to convince Tampa, Orlando and Miami of the plan. If they come on board, Jax will win by default. Other than that, we need to keep hitting our leaders over the head with sound ideas. Eventually, they'll come around. From what I been told, Tampa's mayor and the head of Amtrak were both impressed by some of the ideas floated around by Metro Jacksonville representatives.
JaxNole
May 21, 2009, 11:56:34 PMSo Metro Jacksonville has allies in high positions. How do you strengthen the alliance and bring in stakeholders from Orlando and Miami?
Are Tampa and Orlando on the same page in terms of transportation modes?
What type of relationship exists between Tri-Rail and the I-4 corridor?
Now is the time to strike.
Ocklawaha
May 22, 2009, 12:11:33 AMCharlotte had a lightly attended meeting on Amtrak and High Speed Rail. (This is a traveling dog and pony show by the Federal Railroad Administration with Amtrak's help).
Orlando's had an overflow crowd of maybe 300 in a room designed for 170. We packed the tables, closed the aisles and lined along all of the walls. Everybody that was anybody in Florida Transportation was there. Every Director, Planner, Supplier, Operator, Tri Rail, Sun Rail, HART, Tallahassee, FDOT, Doc Dockery, a great deal of the senate, Secretary of Transportation, vision, MPO's... Maybe Crist wasn't there but we couldn't have seen him if he was! Amazing Amtrak, FRA and $8 Billion dollars worth of "How do you want to spend it Florida?"
As the Chair of my workshop table, I had the pleasure to talk rail, face to face with Doc Dockery (Mr. High Speed Rail Florida). I also had Polk County, Lakeland, Hillsboro, HART, TriRail, and a traveling band of Amtrak/FRA folks.
We were given bland and open questions such as "What would be a successful system in 2 years? 10 years? and how would you measure it?"
We went into a hot discussion on education of the public coming from Amtrak, build traffic then HSR. Dockery locked horns with me on this one, wanting HSR first, "BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME." I argued that Amtrak expansion MUST be the training wheels for HSR... Then we moved to sprawl, "We're all anti sprawl - transit type people here at this table," I said, "Then WHY do we want to build our first HSR line down the middle of I-4, from inaccessible airport to airport? Who do you know in Orlando that wants to ride to the Tampa Airport? Moreover who do you know that wants to drive to the Orlando Airport from urban Orlando? Who lives on I-4?" Dockery countered with, "our ridership projections show we have the numbers to support it with tourism." To which, with some sarcasm, I started singing the M - I - C - K - E - Y M - O - U - S - E theme. Everyone laughed and Dockery agreed with me, Amtrak first. Our table spokes person told the crowd that Robert Mann and Doc Dockery actually agreed on something... LOL's.
Amtrak with the FRA is about to launch a whole new fleet of cars to reequip the trains for anyone that asks.
Florida East Coast, had a guy who came to me and said, "Why doesn't Jacksonville come to us? Our door is wide open!"
"Why is Jacksonville off the map I asked?" I got two answers:
1. "They haven't asked!"
2. "It's on the FLORIDA HSR VISION map, you'll just catch the train in Gainesville or Lake City..." WTF? "Yes folks, so it can go to Atlanta! AROUND Jacksonville."
The worst part of attending, was silence from Jacksonville, not a soul, no sound, no representative, no JTA, no Mayor, no JAA, no JPA, no Duval, no St. Johns, no MPO, no Clay, no Vision, no Baker, no Nassau, NOTHING! NADA! Holy Hell y'all, we are not there, we don't exist, we are a non-city, a non-player, a non-place, no brain, no leadership, no animation, no spark, no life.
As many of you know I have a desert cabin near 29 Palms, California. About a quarter of a mile down grade is an escarpment known as the Eamon's Fault. Yeah as in Earthquake. As in Landers 7.4 that busted the place up real good a few years ago. But in that dry place, there is movement, every few years the rocks move. They move more often and with more animation then my hometown. More action then I have seen from ANYONE that is ANYBODY in JACKSONVILLE! Out performed by ROCKS!
Talking to the Secretary of Transportation and the Amtrak and FEC people, they would all support and attend a rail summit in Jacksonville to consider MORE AMTRAK plus improvements.
The reality check is when the Amtrak boys jumped in with "Oh the Jacksonville Transportation Center?? Yeah, we've been told it's pretty dead, in fact we were working with Steve Arrington of your JTA and..." ENOUGH SAID folks, Steve is the same JTA planner that brought you the Skyway, he and I have done battle before. Now does anyone still believe JTA is serious about streetcars? commuter rail? Amtrak? Do you REALLY think they've given up the Billion Dollar Bus Ride? Partner, Jacksonville isn't even on the map. "THEY" don't even know where Jacksonville is.
FOR GODS SAKES PEOPLE, PULL YOUR HEADS OUT!
Maybe a bottle of SOCO and a cold shower and I can write something a bit more focused, God I'm Pissed!
OCKLAWAHA
JaxNole
May 22, 2009, 12:23:51 AMOck, is it silly to organize workshops without JTA's buy-in, but still invite them? Maybe if they see organization is happening without them, they may wake up.
Ocklawaha
May 22, 2009, 12:32:19 AMNo, I think it's a great idea, not only is JTA NOT the sole player, there are other "Amtrak" clones out there too!
ANYONE can apply for these funds, hell if JTA doesn't want them, I'd be more then happy to get in on this.
Until tomorrow, I'm checking out y'all. 4 hours in my daughters Honda with her lead foot, and Stephendare singing in the back seat is enough for one day... (actually Stephen CAN sing!) Everything hurts... including our local pride. Nothing a cup full of poppy seeds, 5 Lortabs, 2 Somas and a couple shots of SOCO won't fix! YEE HAW! (SMILE Y'ALL!)
OCKLAWAHA
Ocklawaha
May 22, 2009, 10:53:43 AMWhile Crist was here, talking the big bucks... I mean who can pass up another 100 square miles of new home builders? Got to be a few Million floating around between the builders associations and Tallahassee.
Meanwhile down in Orlando, the National High Speed Rail, Federal Railroad Administration and Amtrak, were laying out plans to bankroll $8 Billion in new money for rail. They said the meeting in Charlotte was something of a disappointment with few attending, but Orlando busted out the walls. Everybody in Florida that holds any sort of development dream for mass transportation was in Orlando. That speaks volumes to Crist, Peyton, JTA, COJ and Company.
Stephendare and Myself were the ONLY voices for Jacksonville. They hung a huge map on the wall that showed the "National Vision" and the "Florida Vision"... Well guess who ISN'T Coming To Dinner? These vile people want a high speed line from Orlando to Lake City, via Gainesville, more then they want the 1.3 Million persons in Jacksonville to play a role.
LAKE CITY? Oh the humanity... We couldn't have screwed this up any better if the City would have issued orders to "Stay Away From Rail." The FACT that no one else from Jacksonville or Northeast Florida even bothered to show up at this packed work shop says a couple of things about JTA, and Jax in general.
1. We are NOT serious about rail of ANY type, not streetcar, not commuter rail, not Amtrak, not Light Rail.
2. JTA could have sent somebody to learn how to get their hands on a piece of the Billion dollar pie.
3. Jacksonville is such a joke to the other Florida cities that people laugh at the city in an open forum!
4. Get ready for the BILLION DOLLAR BUS, I no longer think there is any plan for rail, simply window dressing.
This should be headlines, "Federal Government wants to hand Florida Billions for Rail". In fact it probably is headlines in the rest of the State, God knows they were all there. It won't make the cut in Jacksonville,
not even the TU, Journal Record, Business Journal, Folio or anyone else. I still see this as beyond belief.
So here we go again, "We don't do business with carnival people..." (Jacksonville's Ed Ball to Walt Disney) Another sickening thud, we're giving our 1919 train station away, our hub status is moving south. So while the rest of the State is finding ways to mate with the FRA and AMTRAK, we're all about Sodomy in Memorial Park.
F**King Idiots.
OCKLAWAHA
BridgeTroll
May 22, 2009, 11:02:35 AMYour 100% correct Ock... every resident should be angry. It is their job to attend these events and at least participate and represent this city...
JaxNole
May 22, 2009, 12:04:40 PMSo, Ock, how do we spearhead workshops with key stakeholders from the state and bring them here?
If the City and other entities are unwilling to jump on such a tremendous opportunity, let's bring the opportunity to our front yard and leave the door open for them.
Ocklawaha
May 22, 2009, 12:17:35 PMFor credibility we need someone with a city, state or national handle to be in on the sponsorship. Bishop? Johnson? or maybe Mica? Brown?
No doubt we should do this in the grand waiting room of the Jacksonville Terminal. Graphics of an expanded and revised Transportation Center would go a long way too, even if WE have to draw them.
OCKLAWAHA
JaxNole
May 22, 2009, 12:28:21 PMWe know they are champions and support these efforts. What is the most effective way to engage them?
The workshop could be titled "Rail Uprising: Jacksonville". Maybe not.
Still, to JTA's credit, we have a commuter rail study in progress, but that is still not enough.
We need to abandon regional thinking and, as Lake suggested, obtain statewide buy-ins.
What can I do to help you?
stjr
May 28, 2009, 01:03:56 AMHey, Ock. Maybe we need to emulate the Outer Beltway folks and PRIVATIZE this with State and Federal tax incentives. Let's create a private passenger railroad, swipe some Federal and State transit subsidy dollars and tax incentives, and show 'em how its done.
Hearken back to the good ol' days of private rail service. "The Sunshine State Railroad Company".... or, "Florida Arterial Rail Transit" (FART - "Replace your gas with ours!" -
Ocklawaha
May 28, 2009, 09:54:03 AMVirgin Trains, is already looking into entering the field on this side of the pond. If they do, I can't see them missing Florida's market.
It could be done with tax incentives.
OCKLAWAHA
mtraininjax
May 28, 2009, 10:41:55 PMNow that is funny. Politicians love to speak out of BOTH sides of their mouthes. Sounds good to both sides that way. Who knows what the jax leaders were doing, perhaps Adam and John were displaying their new vision of the week. Who knows.
The fact for rail in NE Florida is that Amtrak offers the best chance for any rail development, as rail is not needed to alleviate any form of congestion in terms of highway congestion. The City has no money for it, The state is cutting back its funds for this year and next year. So the feds are the only salvation. If the metrojax people are the reason we get hsr in Jax, I will go down and stage a hug-in of the Bostwick building, so that we don't tear it down for the pocket park that we all know is coming.
mtraininjax
May 30, 2009, 06:56:09 AMI can't resist this, I found this in an old TRAINS magazine article on the new policy that AMTRAK has on people taking pictures of Amtrak trains. It is very funny!
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/217341/february-02-2009/nailed--em---amtrak-photographer
JeffreyS
May 30, 2009, 09:03:20 AMColbert is a funny man.
transitlover
June 02, 2009, 12:45:24 PMThe MPOs and cities along the FEC line have shared their interest in having AMTRAK service along this line with FDOT and AMTRAK
thelakelander
June 02, 2009, 12:49:05 PMHas the City of Jacksonville recently submitted a Resolution of Support letter to FDOT and Amtrak, like Palm Coast, Jupiter and other coastal municipalities have? If so, I wonder why our media has decided not to cover this important issue?
Steve
June 02, 2009, 12:57:32 PMThis is the issue in Jacksonville. All of our governmental offices are within a mile of each other, but these organizations apparently don't talk. Right now, Palm freaking Coast has a resolution supporting this in writing. Can you please point me to where the Jacksonville City Council's is?
thelakelander
June 02, 2009, 01:01:38 PMYes, it would be good if some type of public level of support could be expressed by Jacksonville (council/mayor's office). One would think that vocal support by the State's largest municipality would carry more weight than something produced by Palm Coast.
If this letter has already been issued, Metro Jacksonville would love to publish it to prove our city supports additional transportation alternatives.
Lunican
June 05, 2009, 04:34:27 PMSound familiar?
Amtrak Signs Agreement with Virginia to Provide New Passenger Rail Service
Nation's Railroad Uniquely Positioned to Develop Partnerships with Other States
WASHINGTON - With a new agreement signed with Virginia, Amtrak is now the choice of 15 states to operate their state-funded passenger rail service and is uniquely positioned to develop partnerships with other states, said Amtrak President and CEO Joseph Boardman.
"Amtrak is excited to establish new passenger rail service for Virginia and is seeking opportunities to partner with other states to provide additional rail transportation options," Boardman stated, highlighting the national reach of the railroad's extensive network of stations and mechanical and operational facilities as well as its equipment fleet and reservations system.
Boardman stressed that a primary objective of Amtrak is to be the operator of the national high speed rail system being developed by states with new federal funding provided in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Amtrak understands the needs, opportunities and challenges associated with creating and operating new passenger rail service and is able to provide the leadership and technical assistance necessary to successfully help states reach that goal, he said.
Under the Virginia agreement, Amtrak will receive $17.2 million from Virginia over a three-year demonstration period to provide new daily service to Washington, D.C. from Lynchburg beginning in October 2009 and from Richmond beginning in December 2009. Detailed schedules and fares will be finalized by the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation and Amtrak in the coming months.
In addition to Virginia, Amtrak currently has partnership agreements with the following states to operate state-funded passenger rail services: California, Illinois, Maine, Michigan, Missouri, New York, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin.
About Amtrak
Amtrak has posted six consecutive years of growth in ridership and revenue, carrying more than 28.7 million passengers in the last fiscal year. Amtrak provides intercity passenger rail service to more than 500 destinations in 46 states on a 21,000-mile route system. For schedules, fares and information, passengers may call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com.
Ocklawaha
June 05, 2009, 08:14:19 PMAlmost half of these listed states have experienced "Corridor type growth", along their rail lines, which begs the question, "Where the HELL is Florida?" We have got to get active and LOUD, Yesterday!
BTW, a New York, Washington, Charlottesville, Charlotte, Columbia, Savannah, JAX train makes great sense, perhaps we should push for this. This train was NEVER operated in the old days due to company loyalitys, but today it would be popular. In fact today we can operate Amtrak across former competitor boundries, so what are we waiting for. We once had a round-about train to Charlotte called the "Carolina or Skyland Special" maybe it's time to revisit this on a direct Ashville-Salsbury-Charlotte-Columbia-Savannah, JAX, Tampa/Miami route.
OCKLAWAHA
tufsu1
June 09, 2009, 11:12:01 AMBiden apparently told CA the same thing he told FL about high speed rail
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/06/though-california-is-in-the-throes-of-a-budget-crisis-vice-president-joe-biden-said-today-that-the-states-high-speed-rail.html
JoeMerchant
June 09, 2009, 11:15:04 AM^ Yes, sounds like they are in the running for over 10% of the 8 billion.
nicktooch
August 12, 2009, 07:07:29 PMwrote to yarborough... he said "Thank you for your email regarding Amtrak service and the FEC line."