Print ArticleOn the northernmost part there are four trains per day in each direction; on the stretch from Los Angeles to San Diego, a little less than one per hour.
Pacific Surliner Route Map
Pacific Surliner Photo Tour (from San Diego to San Luis Obispo)
Image by keeth prahkterr at www.flickr.com.
High density transit oriented development surrounds the San Diego station.
Image by remozolli at www.flickr.com.
Surfliner passengers exit the train in Downtown San Diego.
Image by DTrigger05 at www.flickr.com.
Solana Beach Station
Transit Oriented Development planning around the Oceanside Transit Center.
Image by marek69 at www.flickr.com.
The Surfliner pulls out of San Clemente Pier.
Image by Nick Chill at www.flickr.com.
457 hugs the coast as it makes the journey between Los Angeles and San Diego.
Image by mudsharkalex at www.flickr.com.
The Pacific Surfliner makes its way into San Juan Capistrano.
Image by remozolli at www.flickr.com.
Trains provide hourly service to San Diego from San Juan Capistrano. Having this frequency of service in Florida opens up daily commuter opportunities for residents living in suburban communities such as St. Augustine, Orange Park, Green Cove Springs and Macclenny.
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Santa Ana Depot
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Anaheim Station
Image by threenine at www.flickr.com.
Interior
Image by SP8254 at www.flickr.com.
Image by SP8254 at www.flickr.com.
Freight and passenger trains side by side in Fullerton.
Image by ks6cw at www.webshots.com.
This board shows trains arriving and departing every hour at Los Angeles' Union Station.
Image by Carmyarmyofme at www.flickr.com.
The Pacific Surfliner ticket line at Union Station.
Image by LA-SP8254 at www.flickr.com.
Pacific Surfliner and Metrolink commuter rail trains side by side.
Image by h-mayer@sbcglobal.net at www.flickr.com.
Glendale Station
Image by Red Granite at www.flickr.com.
Burbank Airport Station
Image by trainman74 at www.flickr.com.
Van Nuys Station
Image by h-mayer@sbcglobal.net at www.flickr.com.
Chatsworth Station
Image by jim61773 at www.flickr.com.
Image by fredcamino at www.flickr.com.
San Barbara
Image by fredcamino at www.flickr.com.
Passengers wait for the next train in San Barbara.
Image by fredcamino at www.flickr.com.
Downtown San Barbara is within walking distance of the Pacific Surfliner station.
Image by ol_shots at www.webshots.com.
End of the Line: San Luis Obispo
What is Jacksonville and the State of Florida waiting on to make this a reality?
Article by Ennis Davis
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JeffreyS
February 06, 2009, 06:24:04 AMThat looks wonderful. I think you've got me California dreamin.
BridgeTroll
February 06, 2009, 07:08:11 AMSurfLiner... great name...
copperfiend
February 06, 2009, 08:00:20 AMThis looks awesome. I imagine something in Florida running from Miami to Jacksonville with stops in Fort Lauderdale, Palm Beach, Cape Canaveral, Daytona and St Augustine.
archiphreak
February 06, 2009, 09:25:47 AMWhat would happen if the citizens of Jacksonville took the city officials out of the mix and formed a group to lobby directly with the rail companies to begin the process of a functioning mass transit system in our city? Just a thought.
Lunican
February 06, 2009, 09:40:30 AMThe lack of a Florida corridor service really falls on the state (FDOT). Amtrak has publicly stated they want to do this and that they are ready with their portion of the funding. The state now needs to agree to pay a portion.
It would be nice if city officials would start lobbying the state to make a move.
thelakelander
February 06, 2009, 09:44:54 AMArchiphreak is on to something. If our officials won't lobby for it, maybe some sort of local citizens group should lobby with other cities and groups in the state to get something running.
JeffreyS
February 06, 2009, 11:27:10 AMLake would you like to put together the basic petition that could be endorsed by organizations, officials, businesses and individuals. We would then have to start selling it to those entities before we could take it to the state. The proposal would probably need it's own web page and viral campaign. Would this be something that compliments Orlando's commuter rail or competes with it?
ac
February 06, 2009, 11:40:34 AMThanks for this article. Mrs. and I are going out to CA for a wedding in the fall and afterward will need to get from San Jose to Santa Barbara. I'm now pushing this instead of renting a car and driving down.
EDIT: Oops- It's not the same train. It's more correct to say the article reminded me to research rail options.
thelakelander
February 06, 2009, 01:18:15 PMThis is something that would complement the Orlando commuter rail system. Think of it as an express version of commuter rail that links major metropolitan areas together. For example, if a corridor service ran from Jax to Miami, one could catch the train in St. Augustine and ride directly to downtown without stopping. If we had a commuter rail line on the same tracks, one could use the local commuter rail train for stops in between downtown and St. Augustine. The benefit this brings for local commuter rail is it would help pay for the track upgrades that will also be needed for commuter rail, which reduces the overall cost of rail locally.
This sounds perfect for the Jacksonville Transit site (Ock) to take on with Metro Jacksonville playing a major support role to get the word out.
heights unknown
February 06, 2009, 05:14:25 PMOr you could have a Florida Statewide rail system with the East Coast (Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach, Fort Walton Beach, Cape Canaveral, Daytona Beach, St. Augustine, and Jacksonville), Northern Florida running from Jacksonville to Pensacola (in between cities would have to be determine because of the smaller size of cities in between Jax and Pen), West Coast (Starting in Orlando, Lakeland, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Bradenton, Sarasota, Venice, North Port, Port Charlotte, Punta Gorda, Fort Myers, and Naples).
Why not go for the gusto?
You could also consider a Central State Line running from an East Coast Florida City through to Starke, Orlando, and westward to Tampa. This may not be as feasible as the other lines and would have to be studied much more indepth for feasibility and passenger demand.
Just a thought.
Heights Unknown
heights unknown
February 06, 2009, 05:18:32 PM[This sounds perfect for the Jacksonville Transit site (Ock) to take on with Metro Jacksonville playing a major support role to get the word out.
[/quote]
To get the word out and pushing it on through to fruition and reality.
Heights Unknown
Ocklawaha
February 06, 2009, 08:43:53 PMI'm your Huckleberry!
Just a note, taking this to the railroads as a proposal, would be the LAST place one would want to go. We go to the State, Federal and Local governments and they can TELL the railroads how the cow will eat the cabbage. I can think of only a handful of railroads on earth that would welcome passenger trains, and every one of them is in someones spare bedroom, attic, basement or garage.
The ready made corridors are in place and a future comprehensive system is at least 75% intact. They are:
Jacksonville - Lake City - Tallahassee - Pensacola - (and west)
Jacksonville - Waldo - Ocala - Wildwood - Lakeland - Tampa
Jacksonville - Palatka - Deland - Orlando - Auburndale - Lakeland - Tampa
Jacksonville - St. Augustine - Daytona Beach - Melbourne - Ft. Pierce - West Palm Beach - Miami
(Jacksonville/Orlando) Auburndale - Winter Haven - Sebring - West Palm Beach - Miami
Lakeland - Ft. Myers - Naples
Tampa - Clearwater - St. Petersburg
Tampa - Sarasota - Venice
The missing segments are GAINESVILLE (which has right of way for several old lines) at the end of a branch from Starke.
Also:
Jacksonville - Starke - Alachua - Dunnellon - (Inverness-Brooksville taken out) Brooksville - Tampa
Beyond the state lines (every possible route passes through Jacksonville), in conjunction with Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee etc. we could create a host of new (old) routes to EVERYWHERE SOUTH, Macon, Atlanta, Montgomery, Birmingham, Chattanooga, Nashville, not to mention Cleveland, Cincinnati, Louisville, St. Louis, Chicago, Memphis, Kansas City, New Orleans, Charlotte... ALL DIRECT.
I think we need a map showing routes and frequencys, with regular fast Surfliner or Amtrak type trains. Then get the package on the ballot and force the issue statewide... Start in Jacksonville - as you can see from the routes, we are the hub.
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
February 06, 2009, 10:01:47 PMHub = jobs. If it can be proven that tons of jobs can be stimulated locally, it will make a fight for something like this stronger.
JeffreyS
February 07, 2009, 09:23:57 AMOK here is my attempt at a simple verbiage to collect signatures for a Ballot initiative.
9a is my backyard
February 07, 2009, 12:39:20 PMAbsolutely, especially right now.
Do you think any of the local rail companies would get behind it?
Ocklawaha
February 07, 2009, 02:35:59 PMyou'd have a better chance making ice cubes in Hell. Y'all have got to understand that over the years the railroads lost BILLIONS on passenger trains. Once the door cracked so they could get out of that business, it turned into stampede. Amtrak is all that is left and they operate only about 1/4 the track miles that the private companies did the day before Amtrak took over. 8 trains a day was suddenly 1 train a day, and in many towns, cities even entire states, the trains just vanished.
Since freight makes big bucks and passenger trains are a liability and get in the way of freight, the railroads are less then thrilled to be forced to operate Amtrak trains. You are NOT going to get the railroads on this band wagon.
The recent additions have been okayed by the railroads because they were in such a capacity bind during the recent building boom. Trains were sometimes 24 hours late. So when a state or city comes around (such as the Orlando Deal) the railroad is quick to sell the track, lease back the rights to operate the freights, conditional that the state "DOUBLE TRACK" the entire line (or some other high volume $$ demand). This is the only carrot we have for commuter rail or for corridor service.
OCKLAWAHA
Waldorf Statler
February 12, 2009, 01:55:32 AMLong time lurker, first time poster - but I'm a BnB (born n bred) Jacksonvillian and love the city.
However, I now live in Southern California and wanted to comment on this post (and there's more to come on others now that I'm registered!).
The Pacific Surfliner seems great, and sounds romantic. But, the reality is that not many people use it. Oh it would be nice to hope the train for a jaunt up to San Luis Obisbo, or down to San Diego, but really, not many people (I would say nobody but that sounds mean) do. Why? Because in our hyper-accelerated lives, we just don't have time to spend 8 hours on a train when a 1 hour flight will do the same. Most vacations are 2-3 days max. Spending nearly a full day traveling each way just doesn't cut it. Sure the journey becomes part of the experience, and for some this is more important than others, but given the choice, most would rather spend time on the beach, strolling the San Luis farmer's market, or wandering the streets of San Francisco than hanging out on a train.
I love the ideas put forth on this site, and in a perfect world train travel would be an excellent alternate option to offer, but the demand just isn't there given the costs involved in running (much less setting one up) an operation.
During Train Day, we went downtown to Union Station and toured the trains. They're quite nice and would be a wonderful treat, but even the tickets were expensive compared to a $75/ow flight to San Fran, or jumping in your car to San Diego (because you'll likely need a car when you get there or will spend a fortune in cabs).
So, great idea...not so sure it's grounded in the real world.
Thanks for the opportunity...and for all the hard work everyone put into the site!
Waldorf
BridgeTroll
February 12, 2009, 06:48:29 AMWelcome Waldorf... you make some very good points. There is no doubt that time spent travelling and cost are in the favor of air travel for many people.
thelakelander
February 12, 2009, 07:49:19 AMIt really depends on how you look at it. The Pacific Surfliner carried 2.89 million passengers last year. That's pretty impressive. Also, from looking at the route and communities it serves, one would guest most aren't using it to travel from one end to the other. For example, it would not make sense to fly from Oceanside to Santa Ana or Glendale to Irvine. Locally, it would not make sense to fly from Jacksonville to St. Augustine or Palm Coast. However, a rail connection between Jacksonville and Miami would provide direct service to all of the coastal communities in between, meaning one could us it to move between Titusville and Daytona. This is an area where rail remains superior.
Ocklawaha
February 12, 2009, 02:09:05 PMWe come from a generation of people with a habit of non-stop flights or even drives to anyplace else. So much so that the Billions and Billions spent on airline and interstates every year have created their own nightmares.
Fact is, in stage lengths of 300 miles or less, trains still rule the commercial travel industry... Where they are provided. Sadly Amtrak has never had the funds to provide a "service" rather then simply a train per route.
Imagine, one flight a day to Atlanta... NO OTHER CHOICE... Amtrak doesn't even have ONE.
There is also an element of travel that cannot be enjoyed on a plane. Seeing America up close and personal.
Likewise, trains will attract many more long distance travelers then an equal bus will. Trailways once had the articulated GOLDEN EAGLES and these coaches had a hostess, kitchen, table service, extra leg room, restrooms etc... Going head to head with SANTA FE's passenger trains nearly killed the company.
As speeds increase the stage lengths of rail commands more miles, witness the failure of several short haul airlines in Europe. In fact our first case stateside was this year when the shuttle pulled out of Harrisburg-NYC as it could NOT compete with the center city - center city times of the fast trains.
We don't need HIGH SPEED RAIL in Florida, all we need is higher speed rail and smarter more frequent rail.
Florida could support a mostly 79 mph system today, we could get rid of more then 1/2 of the slow speed zones with overpasses and fencing. All of this without having to touch the track. Frankly I have knowledge of a train reaching 120 MPH North of Jacksonville, in FLORIDA. We COULD DO THIS NOW, we don't have to wait for some magic spell and $60 Billion Dollars.
OCKLAWAHA
stjr
February 13, 2009, 08:02:52 PMI previously posted about the benefits of an interstate link from Jax-Orange Park to Gainesville-Tampa.
Likewise, if we had a Jax Airport-Jax Downtown-Orange Park/Jax NAS-Gainesville train, it would share similar benefits. A large number of flyers to/from Gainesville come through JIA. Shands Gainesville patients and their famililies and UF profs, students, and sports fans commute from Jax homes. UF doctors commute to/from Shands Jax. UF students and Gainesville residents commute to Jax for events and beaches. A lot more would occur between Jax-Gainesville if the cities had stronger links than currently exist. Clay County also might benefit from the inter-connecting transportation link they so desperately seek.
Just this "little" rail line could do a lot for both ends. Jax has a major asset in being near a major research university at UF and has not fully exploited it.
ProjectMaximus
February 14, 2009, 12:58:47 AMAmen, brother. Actually, you could put a lot of different phrases between "asset" and "and"...
wwanderlust
August 07, 2009, 03:49:01 PMBest idea I've heard in a while.