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zoo
July 17, 2009, 06:41:03 AMCity Hall Annex looks pretty good, even though no retail at street-level. Where is the art in public places that, by ordinance, is supposed to accompany this type of project?
Downtown Visitor Center is a surprise! They must have gotten wind of the news Springfield was planning one in the renovated SPAR Building at 1321 Main, and had to jump out there with theirs first (same song with clean-up, parks, etc...)
fsu813
July 17, 2009, 08:06:03 AManyone know what 925 King Street is gonna be?
fsujax
July 17, 2009, 08:15:17 AMWhats the deal with 1000 Riverside? is it being renovated for new tenants? Hopefully next time we will see the Ambassador Hotel added to the list.
hightowerlover
July 17, 2009, 08:44:37 AMso basically almost all of the projects are government related if they are truly "under construction" currently. while almost every privately invested site is either fully completed or looking abandoned.
copperfiend
July 17, 2009, 08:48:59 AMI think the new hotels in San Marco look great.
heights unknown
July 17, 2009, 09:13:13 AMStill not much going on; economy still in a depressive state and tailspin. Until we truly get out of this "quandry" with the economy, nothing great will happen until after then (if the economy ever truly recovers).
Heights Unknown
Wacca Pilatka
July 17, 2009, 09:52:10 AMDidn't someone say the downtown visitor center space would also include an art gallery?
Will this mean the visitor center space at the Landing will close?
The Greenleaf & Crosby building is probably the most impressively ornamented piece of architecture in the city. I hope many visitors will admire it.
oreo0579
July 17, 2009, 10:18:18 AMNo photos of the Berkman Plaza construction or the empty space where The Shipyards were to be?
thelakelander
July 17, 2009, 10:29:38 AMNo more photos of Berkman or the Shipyards until construction restarts. This is also the last month City Hall Annex, 3rd & Main, Kings Avenue Station and the visitor's center will be included in this list.
thelakelander
July 17, 2009, 10:32:31 AMWill this mean the visitor center space at the Landing will close?
The Greenleaf & Crosby building is probably the most impressively ornamented piece of architecture in the city. I hope many visitors will admire it.
Yes, an art gallery will be included. As for the Landing's center, I'm not sure of what will happen with it. However, the one at 550 Water Street will close.
reednavy
July 17, 2009, 11:38:35 AMI thought the happening at 1000 Riverside was jsut a retaring of the roof.
I've always had the idea of a restaurant atop the building and occupying the penthouse on top as well. That'd be a killer view during dinner or jsut for drinks and some bar foord.
zoo
July 17, 2009, 11:55:06 AMUh, nothing to report on Shipyards other than it has officially gone back to COJ, right? Landmar was in bankruptcy -- I understand it closed its doors, let all staff go, and vacated its building off JTB earlier this week. Unfortunately, it seems the fat lady has sung on that project (as it existed anyway).
Deuce
July 17, 2009, 11:58:14 AMIts a shame the Corner Brasserie closed down. It's where I took my girlfriend on our first date.
Captain Zissou
July 17, 2009, 12:03:13 PMNext month's photo update is going to be awful if this is the case. Anybody know what that site clearing in San Marco is going to be for?? My guess is a surface lot.
stjr
July 17, 2009, 12:10:46 PMI read the San Marco site clearing is being done by Baptist to dress up the existing parking area to blend in more nicely with the planned rebuild and landscaping of San Marco Blvd.
I just hope they get the manhole covers right this time
fsu813
July 17, 2009, 12:15:21 PMso noone knows what the heck is being done with 925 King?
I say Blockbuster Video (wow, what a difference!)
Dapperdan
July 17, 2009, 12:20:06 PMLooking forward to seeing more progress on The Courthouse next month and maybe interior demo starting on The Ambassador. I know the Courthouse is a boondoggle but it is starting to create side effect developement such as The AMbassador, AND the prime riverfront property will be available for hopefully a Convention Center.
reednavy
July 17, 2009, 12:26:04 PMtufsu1
July 17, 2009, 07:19:17 PMThe Landing location will stay open...as will the ones at the airport and the beach
mtraininjax
July 17, 2009, 08:12:53 PMWhat, no new projects in Mandarin? So much for the downtown report...
nicktooch
July 17, 2009, 08:28:34 PMthey do look great... inside as well... a LOT of $$$ put into them... high hopes for a hotel in the background of downtown. side note: that lovely front corner door... yeh just for looks. guests have to come through the entrance closest to the garage. guess they had to put a nice front door for setback purposes but realized the even in downtown (read as southbank/san marco), it wouldn't be to safe to have it swinging open freely
Ocklawaha
July 17, 2009, 11:23:02 PMLooking at Bay Street I was wondering what our bar-club-coffee shop "district" is up to. We have the "Learning From XXX" series that Lakelander runs on here and we always see "Jacksonville has 4 bars on Bay Street." That's not quite 100% truth any more, perhaps we should change the numbers as we grow. Think about the other cities we talk about, City XX has "XXTOWNE" a club district and night life center with 600 clubs. Hurrah for City XX, but thinking about it, don't we also have a SAN MARCO? a FIVE POINTS? or a PARK AND KING? Would these not be just as much an addition to the central core as "Little Saigon" in Orlando, or as much as the South Beach is to Miami?
I understand the humor in our "4 bars" line, and it might indeed have the desired effect of shaming some of our good citizens toward more action. The negative side is this is not just a Jacksonville forum. As the MetroJacksonville site gets spun around the world more and more outsiders are reading "Only 4 bars in Jacksonville." The 4 bars line might be a very negative thing - even though I know it has purpose. So many new voices are logging on now, perhaps it's time to throw them a new twist:
"Jacksonville has XX + restaurants, bars and clubs in 4 distinct urban nightlife districts..."
This certainly would toss some positive light on Old Hickory's Town. Everywhere I traveled on this recent trip, Jacksonville was getting rave reviews from someone... Very positive toward us.
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
July 18, 2009, 12:35:20 AMThe "Elements of Urbanism series typically focuses only on our downtown core and the downtown core's of other cities. There's no humor intended in the "4 bars on East Bay" line. It is what it is. Hopefully, it will continue to expand in the future. However, we don't cover up our vibrant urban commercial districts. Check out the neighborhoods section. You'll find tons of articles and images of these areas there.
Ocklawaha
July 18, 2009, 10:16:38 AMThanks Lake, I just thought that we have now raised the bar and broken the local record number of clubs, aren't we past 4 yet? Or was I seeing double last time our friendly downtown priest and I tipped back a couple of shots.
Understand my concern is that we balance ourselves with other cities when we do the Learning From series. We have so many newbies and wannabees in Jacksonville, I'd hate to give them the wrong impression. Doesn't The Landing count as downtown? Sure are some good places there too.
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
July 18, 2009, 10:35:51 PMEast Bay has the Ivy, TSI, Marks, Dive Bar and a pizza restaurant (Northstar). That adds up to four bars/clubs. I don't know if I would qualify the Landing as a true nightlife district. Its a shopping center. I guess I could but I would have to do the same for every city that has a festival marketplace or mall in its downtown (which is most).
Anyway, keep in mind that the "Learning From" series is to show what other city's downtown cores look like. From this, we can identify good and bad examples of things we discuss, regarding our downtown. With the statistics, I stick with factual data as opposed to opinions or cooking numbers to go one way or the other. Depending on the city shown, Jax will excell at certain things and fail at others. However, don't look at it as giving viewers the wrong impression about downtown. Look at it as a way of identifying areas where we may need to focus and improve.
reednavy
July 18, 2009, 11:13:46 PMYou can add The Sterling to that nightlife list, they opened last month.
thelakelander
July 18, 2009, 11:50:29 PMWhat is "The Sterling" and where are they located on East Bay (Bay Street Town Center)?
tufsu1
July 19, 2009, 09:02:45 AMdo you mean The Sinclair...which is actually on West Forsyth Street?
reednavy
July 19, 2009, 11:04:21 AMdo you mean The Sinclair...which is actually on West Forsyth Street?
Shows that I don't go clubbing downtown.
I just think it needs to be expanded, because limiting it to E Bay seems a little harsh/
heights unknown
July 19, 2009, 11:11:47 AMI understand the humor in our "4 bars" line, and it might indeed have the desired effect of shaming some of our good citizens toward more action. The negative side is this is not just a Jacksonville forum. As the MetroJacksonville site gets spun around the world more and more outsiders are reading "Only 4 bars in Jacksonville." The 4 bars line might be a very negative thing - even though I know it has purpose. So many new voices are logging on now, perhaps it's time to throw them a new twist:
"Jacksonville has XX + restaurants, bars and clubs in 4 distinct urban nightlife districts..."
This certainly would toss some positive light on Old Hickory's Town. Everywhere I traveled on this recent trip, Jacksonville was getting rave reviews from someone... Very positive toward us.
OCKLAWAHA
I think he is pointing to the entertainment available in the central business district, downtown, urban core, etc., which is fine, but the city's entertainment in my opinion encompasses more than what entertainment or recreation is available downtown. I agree, indicate also what is available in San Marco, Mandarin, Riverside, Five Points, Northside (if applicable), Springfield, etc.
Heights Unknown
ralpho37
July 19, 2009, 06:20:41 PMOcklawaha has a very good point, I think it would be best to rethink the whole "downtown Jacksonville has 4 restaurants and bars" thing. It definitely puts downtown in too negative a light to make the city attractive to newcomers.
fsu813
July 19, 2009, 07:07:21 PMWell, i think it's refering to a central location of entertainment Downtown. Bay Street has 4 bars, yes. And they are close. The others aren't connected. Though I do think The Landing & Bay Street are close enough to be considered the same area.
Marks, Dive, Ivy, TSI, Twisted Martini, Mavericks, London Bridge, The Sinclair....that's 8 right there, though they are not all connected. Cafe 331 is also open late, maybe Poppy Love Smoke....
thelakelander
July 19, 2009, 07:44:32 PMdo you mean The Sinclair...which is actually on West Forsyth Street?
Shows that I don't go clubbing downtown.
I just think it needs to be expanded, because limiting it to E Bay seems a little harsh/
We're so sprawled out, I guess it may be a little more difficult to explain what a true nightlife district is.
East Bay or the Bay Street Town Center (between Main and Liberty) is the city's designated "nightlife/entertainment district". Also, to describe "district", think about it being a compact cluster of a mix of complementing uses. As our "district" grows, its boundaries will be naturally expanded.
Marks, Dive, Ivy, TSI, Twisted Martini, Mavericks, London Bridge, The Sinclair....that's 8 right there, though they are not all connected. Cafe 331 is also open late, maybe Poppy Love Smoke....
Bingo. Put them all on the same block and you have a "district". Spread them out all over downtown and you don't.
A successful nightlife district has a multiple bars, restaurants, and entertainment uses in a compact setting. Here are a few examples of nightlife districts. The common theme is that there are multiple bars, restaurants and complementing entertainment uses adjacent to each other.
South Beach (Miami Beach)
4th Street (Cleveland)
Ybor City (Tampa)
In Downtown Jacksonville, outside of the Landing's courtyard, East Bay is where this scene takes place.
The Elements of Urbanism series is not about boosting any particular city's numbers. Its about showing a visual image of similar "districts" and development issues, we deal with locally, in our peer communities. To go back again, its not downtown has 4 bars, its downtown's nightlife district has 4 bars. East Bay is about as close to a true bonefide nightlife district in our downtown core. If it makes you guys feel better, we can take out the 4 bars thing and just refer to East Bay, as downtown's entertainment district.
Heights Unknown
One problem. This particular comparison just identifies the city's main downtown nightlife district. This officially eliminates areas outside of downtown from this specific highlight. To be fair, this not only applies to Jacksonville, but the select peer city as well. In other words, its an apples to apples comparison that is not cooked one way or the other.
Ocklawaha
July 19, 2009, 08:50:12 PMI'd say my point is, that in many similar cities, we are penning the bars of "South Beach" against our Bay Street clubs. South Beach is as much as part of downtown Miami as 5-Points or San Marco are to Jacksonville. So really is it apples to apples?
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
July 19, 2009, 09:00:46 PMYes it was apples to apples because South Beach is not mentioned as Downtown Miami's nightlife district, because it is not in downtown. Coral Gables, South Miami, the Design District, Coconut Grove and a host of other San Marco/Five Point styled areas down there were also omitted because they were not downtown, which was the main focus of the Downtown Miami article.
Miami: Park West District. A collection of nightclubs in a three block stretch of old warehouses on NE 11th Street near I-395.
Jacksonville: East Bay Street, located between Main Street and Liberty Street. This four block stretch is home to four bars and clubs.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-dec-elements-of-urbanism-miami
However, South Beach was significant enough to warrant their own Elements of Urbanism article:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-apr-elements-of-urbanism-south-beach
blizz01
July 19, 2009, 09:08:34 PMSo where do places like The Burrito Gallery & London Bridge get lumped in?
thelakelander
July 19, 2009, 09:15:04 PMThey are downtown, but not part of a nightlife district. The same could be said for Da Real Thing, 331 and the Pearl. They are positive nightlife elements but they don't make up a district because of their isolation with complementing uses. Nevertheless, if more establishments come to the East Bay area, around the Florida Theater, and the Haydon Burns project takes off, the BG, London Bridge and Poppy Loves Smoke could combine with the others to become a decent district spanning mulitple blocks with a continuous line of bars, restaurants and clubs.
Ocklawaha
July 19, 2009, 09:21:06 PMWell now we're getting somewhere! Gee this is fun!
OCKLAWAHA
thelakelander
July 19, 2009, 09:33:47 PMIts not that complicated. Its just as simple to determine as the difference between a mall and a couple of isolated retail stores located along a mile long stretch of Blanding Blvd. I really don't see what the big deal is.
Tripoli1711
July 19, 2009, 09:42:46 PMRight on. And this is exactly the point. I see where you are coming from with all of this and I think you are exactly right. Think of it this way folks. If I say to someone "want to head downtown and hit the bars?" they would almost certainly think of Bay Street. Not San Marco, not Riverside. Why? Because if I meant that I would say "hey, want to head to San Marco and grab some drinks?" Bay Street is the downtown district. The description is spot on. If everything works out right (insert prayers here), in the not too distant future this district will expand one block north and include everything on Forsyth.
Tripoli1711
July 19, 2009, 09:46:17 PMIt can. However some people are more enterprising sorts. Perhaps someone who has succeeded elsewhere and looking for a new project will view that and say "here is a market that is begging to expand, and I am just the person to do it."
jbroadglide
July 22, 2009, 02:53:57 PMIf you happen to be downtown near the Jake M Godbold City Hall Annex and Lobsterhouse, check out the plaque at the front door and see if you don't see something wrong within the first few paragraphs..And the city paid good money for it....
blizz01
July 22, 2009, 03:12:54 PMPlease expound.
Steve
July 22, 2009, 03:38:49 PMOur role has never been that of a "PR Company". Talk to DVI for that.
stephendare
July 22, 2009, 03:50:09 PMWould people lighten up and give me a break?
A nightlife district is a real thing. We do not have one downtown yet.
Have we made great strides towards improving whats available in the center city and its historic neighborhoods? Well kindof.
Bay Street is the very beginning of a district. But lets not count the chickens before the eggs even get laid.
And lets not put on our pouting boots yet either. Lets work conscientiously toward the goal of 100 nightspots in the downtown and 75 apeice in the historic districts that surround it.
Lets fix whats broken that keeps that from happening (high ass rents, crazy as hell landlords, one way streets, no night time transit which forces everyone to drink and drive, and of course, our lovely sheriff's office and their habit of making downtown into an Forbidden Zone during any and all major events) and continue to support what does. (um...like the open locations.)
We have a long way to go, but this is one of those things where all it really takes is everyone agreeing that we actually do want to go there and then actively making t happen.
So get out there. Go to the open venues. Text your lame ass friends that want to smoke out and head to the southside. Twitter when something cool is happening. MAKE PLANS to meet people.
When some chuckleheaded dumbass makes a comment about all the crime thats downtown correct them. Don't go along to get along when some racist buffoon talks about how 'dark' it is downtown.
This is one of those things that just needs an intangible: Belief.
And a little patience and a lot of support.
Wacca Pilatka
July 22, 2009, 04:34:26 PMLobsterhouse?
Captain Zissou
July 22, 2009, 04:36:24 PMI think that the entertainment district that is developing downtown is a lot of fun. Yes I have plenty of complaints, but not enough to keep me from spending my nights there. Having just graduated from UF, I have seen what a critical mass of just 4 or 5 venues can create. There are easily 1,000 people within a block of eachother every Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday nights at just 6 bars. I miss it terribly
That being said, Jax has plenty of work to do as far as how the current bars are run. Dive Bar and Ivy's are great, no complaints. TSI does not warrant the $6 to $10 cover it charges, especially considering their drink prices are higher than mark's and Dive bar anyway. Marks' staff needs to chill out and just be happy they have any patron's at all. I have been there twice when they were nearly empty and the bar staff and DJ's were still being obnoxious. Additionally, every bar needs to take a lesson from ole G-Ville in efficiency. Down there the bartenders are making constant loops from one end of the bar to the other. If they have already passed by, too bad, just wait until they get back around. Here the bartenders just pick and choose people haphazardly while some people sit and wait forever.
I know this may not be the right place for a bar rant, but it has long been an issue I wanted to discuss.
KennyLovesJAX
August 03, 2009, 09:57:47 PMI love the pics of the comparison of the night spots Jacksonville really looks like a COOL CITY. Also i like the visitor infomation center in downtown the window picture looks great.
Doctor_K
August 04, 2009, 10:12:43 AMA nightlife district is a real thing. We do not have one downtown yet.
Have we made great strides towards improving whats available in the center city and its historic neighborhoods? Well kindof.
Bay Street is the very beginning of a district. But lets not count the chickens before the eggs even get laid.
Captain Zissou
August 04, 2009, 10:19:42 AMI think that's a good point, doc. Especially if the courthouse moves, I think we will see a long term entertainment district develop around there in a decade or so. Already I think the area is close to reaching a critical mass of supporting businesses. All it took was two or three clubs/bars that were willing to stick it out through the tough times to pave the way for newcomers. (Mark's/ Dive struggled upon opening while Ivy's had instant success?? Sounds like Cycling)
reednavy
August 05, 2009, 10:09:21 PMI noticed tonight that two tower crane bases are in at the courthouse site and expect full erection of the cranes in the next few weeks.