Fifty-Eight years before the grand opening of the Jacksonville Landing, a similar themed public space was proposed for the Northbank riverfront. The Jacksonville Quay was proposed by George W. Simons, Jr., a young city planner, in 1929.
What is a Quay?
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A quay (UK: /ˈkiː/, US: /ˈkeɪ, ˈkweɪ/) is a wharf or bank where ships and other vessels are loaded. A quay may be constructed parallel or perpendicular to the bank of a waterway. In the United Kingdom and Commonwealth nations, the word is commonly used, while Americans typically use "wharf." Similar words are found in many European languages. In French, it is spelled quai as in Quai d'Orsay, the home of the French foreign ministry headquarters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuayWhat was the Jacksonville Quay?
This Ocean Street fish market would have been in the center of Simons' proposed Jacksonville Quay.
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"Jacksonville commands an immediate trading area of at least 17 counties. Why shouldn't the [back country] contribute a greater share of the food supply of Jacksonville?"
George W. Simons, Jr - 1929The quay would have been a public owned riverfront market. It would have been a centralized place where goods from at least 17 surrounding counties would have been traded and sold to the public.
Centralized Location
The quay would have taken up three blocks of the Northbank riverfront between Main and Market Streets. Simons believed this site was ideal because it had road, rail, water access and it was central to the residents of Duval County.
Today, this site is occupied by the Hyatt and the Landing's parking lot.
Redevelopment or Economic Engine?
Open since 1907, Seattle's Pike Place Market has become one of the city's most popular tourist destinations. One can only wonder if the Jacksonville Quay would have enjoyed the same success.
Today downtown is known for being a place in need of redevelopment. However, 80 years ago, downtown was as vibrant as it would ever get. Instead of being a redevelopment idea, Simons viewed the establishment of the quay as an additional economic engine for a region still recovering from the bust of the Florida Boom.
What ended up happening?
Nothing. Like many great ideas throughout time, the Quay never made it off the drawing board. Nevertheless, even today, there are those that believe a full blown public market would be a great addition to the urban waterfront.
Article by Ennis Davis
Source: Landing Idea first emerged back in 1929 by Bill Foley
Florida Times-Union 08/31/94 (Jacksonville Public Library Special Collections Department)
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zoo
August 07, 2009, 06:38:16 AMWould love it if there was a central fish market in Jax. I've missed the ones I've frequented in other metros.
Gonzo
August 07, 2009, 07:41:24 AMFor a city which calls itself "The River City by the Sea" we a woefully inept in capitalizing on either. When you look at examples such as the Pike Place Market or Fisherman's Wharf you have to wonder why we are still missing the proverbial boat? Both of those markets are HUGE tourist draws and economic boons to their respective cities.
The recent addition and popularity of the Riverside Arts Market should be sending a very clear mesage to the city planners -- build it and they wil come!
sheclown
August 07, 2009, 07:57:14 AMmuch better idea than sprinklers popping out of concrete...this is an investment that could pay for itself.
Overstreet
August 07, 2009, 09:13:11 AMMaybe a better point with the Riverside Arts Market is you don't have to build a big expensive building to have a market that people will come to.
A central fish market might be interesting, but I have a fish market less than a mile from my house (excluding the grocery stores). To get to the central retail fish market I'd have to travel twelve miles and pass two other fish markets to get there. Obviously I'm not the target market for that central fish market. You need people living nearby.
Then again I’d drive thirty miles to put the boat in and maybe catch a fish. But that is a whole other discussion.
Deuce
August 07, 2009, 09:30:47 AMTrue dat. Problem is the city and developers think they need more people centrally to add things like this, but there is enough to launch anything as long as there's just one. Once you've got it, others will settle centrally as there's now more places to shop at, visit, etc.
I don't know if the Potomac waterfront seafood market in D.C. counts as a quay but it was totally awesome. It's not just a place to shop but also a destination.
BridgeTroll
August 07, 2009, 09:37:02 AMI love fish markets and the idea of a Quay... I do wonder what fresh fish harvested locally would be sold in quantity and quality at a Jacksonville Quay. The local shrimping industry barely exists anymore... seems many want to completely curtail Red Snapper harvests.
Overstreet
August 07, 2009, 09:47:23 AMYou sound like the city never did any river front development to bring people downtown. This discounts the Landing, TUPAC, Riverwalk, River City Brewing Co. and other venues.
Here’s a link to the Soulard Farmers Market in St Louis. Not the fisherman’s dock of San Francisco y’all seem to be talking about but a long term going concern. In the history section you’ll see that most all the improvements were by private concerns that were later taken over or purchased by the city. The land was given to the city. Most of the buildings were developed by the farmers or developers and later sold to the city. One thing that makes this area work is parking. The locals that live there still drive to the market. We often went there but really did most of our shopping at Schnucks grocery stores.
http://www.soulardmarket.com/soulard_farmers_market_007.htm
Maybe it is not the City of Jacksonville, but private individuals that need to get it going and maybe not on the waterfront.
Jason
August 07, 2009, 09:51:26 AMCould a fish market be incorporated into RAM?
copperfiend
August 07, 2009, 09:59:30 AMWe should make a book of everything that was destroyed, torn down or never built downtown. I would call it ''The Way We Weren't''.
Doctor_K
August 07, 2009, 11:34:56 AM"The Way We Weren't; Or Why Jacksonville History Makes Me Want to Take Anti-Depressants"
Gen7
August 07, 2009, 12:39:56 PMOn a more positive note, since we can't undo our past, The Landing is there and nearly empty of merchants and people. Since we already have a Farmer's Market on Beaver Street and an Arts Market in Riverside, perhaps something unique would be an International Market at the Landing - Similar to the World of Nations Event that is a big hit every year. It could feature food, bakery goods, art and music from the various people groups represented in Jacksonville. I know we have eastern European, Filipino, Arabic, Jewish, Hispanic, Indian, just to name a few.
blizz01
August 07, 2009, 01:01:43 PMI could totally see that first picture in the mezzanine of The Landing every week. Imagine a flotilla of shrimp boats & fishermen every Saturday docked downtown - incorporated with RAM. I envision that stretch of Riverwalk in between one day peppered with vendors as well.
Overstreet
August 07, 2009, 01:51:22 PMI could totally see that first picture in the mezzanine of The Landing every week. Imagine a flotilla of shrimp boats & fishermen every Saturday docked downtown - incorporated with RAM. I envision that stretch of Riverwalk in between one day peppered with vendors as well.
More likely the wholesaler bringing them in by truck. Since the shrimp boat docked last night, off loaded and went back out. Fish don't bite on a Monday- Friday schedule. Then too "Mayport shrimp" might have been caught and off loaded in Brunswick GA.
Gonzo
August 10, 2009, 07:53:16 AMI grew up in St. Louis myself and remember going to Soulard often as a child. I'd go with my grandparents who lived in south St. Louis. It was always a vibrant, fun experience. And it was located in a historic area of the city near the central part of downtown.
It was part Farmer's Market, part meat market, part outdoor restaurant. There were always vendors hawking wares, colorful sights and heavenly smells. It evokes many fond memories of mornings perusing produce with my grandmother and of my grandfather haggling with the butcher for freash German sausages.
These are the kinds of memories we should be building for our children and the kind of experiences we should be providing the population of our city. They build a greater sense of community and strenghten the ties one has to the city. As someone who spent 32 years in St. Louis, I still long for "home" even though Jacksonville is my true home now. But, St. Louis has managed to create such a wealth of unique social experiences that it will always hold a place in my heart. This is what Jacksonville needs to create -- a sense of place and community which will rest in visitor's and residents hearts, beconning them to return.
Ocklawaha
August 10, 2009, 10:02:45 AMA central fish market might be interesting, but I have a fish market less than a mile from my house (excluding the grocery stores). To get to the central retail fish market I'd have to travel twelve miles and pass two other fish markets to get there. Obviously I'm not the target market for that central fish market. You need people living nearby.
Then again I'd drive thirty miles to put the boat in and maybe catch a fish. But that is a whole other discussion.
Hate to disagree before I drink my breakfast... "Oh crap, somebody just put juice in my juice bottle!" (W. C. Fields). I would drive from my new perch south of Orangedale. I think you missed a detail here friend Overstreet. A REAL fish market wouldn't just be a place with a freezer or ice chest full of critters. A real fish and farm market would have dozens of wholesaler's haggling with Winn Dixie, Publix and Food Lion officers every morning. Fresh catch of the day could indeed be off loaded on the downtown waterfront. Mix in the exotic, every restaurant in town would be there, some might even be selling fish and chips, fresh oysters, popcorn shrimp and such. This is no little fish department in a big shopping center, this would be big... HUGE. Think of a quay as Disney World for the tastebuds.
OCKLAWAHA
Overstreet
August 10, 2009, 11:41:26 AMThe local fishery could not support that operation. That location downtown does not lend itself to the logistics of the fish industry in Jacksonville. You'd be forcing it to move there for entertainment not for business.
BridgeTroll
August 10, 2009, 12:46:15 PMThat was my thought much earlier in the thread... The shrimping industry is nearly dead... same with Snapper... unless you are gonna sell mullet at the quay there does not seem to be much "local" product available.
blizz01
August 10, 2009, 12:53:17 PMCrabs.
Fallen Buckeye
August 12, 2009, 06:04:15 PMI just saw a show about a kind of fish market in the Phillipines where people can buy fresh fish and veggies on side of the market and then once they're done shopping they take the sea food they bought to the other side of the market. There are lots of cooks set up there and you give them the ingredients and tell them how you want them to cook it. Then they cook you a meal and serve it with your ingredients. I wonder if that could work in the U.S. with the health codes and everything, but can you imagine? Have chefs of many different specialties set up on the other side of the market to cook your freshly caught fish or mayport shrimp or crabs. That would be a tourist draw for sure. I don't know the first thing about running a business or I'd set it up myself. lol.