Here are a few things that possibly would have happened in New York, Rome, London Paris, Seattle, or San Francisco if the leaders that made them into Great Cities had been given our city and history.
The George Washington Hotel on Adams Street, would be the premier boutique hotel in downtown, instead of the surface parking lot it is today.
The Southern Music Hall of Fame would be open and full to capacity somewhere in downtown. Molly Hatchet, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers would have exhibits there and all the music aficionados would know a history of the Southern music and the Jacksonville music scene.
A statue of Ray Charles would stand in the perfectly preserved and popular bar where he first played soul piano and blues in the South.
There would be another museum of Black Film commemorating the achievements of black filmmakers here in Jacksonville.
Peterbrookes, The Loop Pizza and the Chicken Coop would all have gigantic headquarters in the center of town that rivaled the marooned Cruise Ship of a Building that Preston Haskell's company erected to itself on Riverside Avenue. There would be standing lines for tours of Sally Industry.
Blaire Woolverton would have her own cable show and Jake Godbold would have a cookbook.
Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.
When the Jacksonville Film Festival opened every year, Josh Skierski and Chad Hendricks would be the Emcees and Rita Manyette would be the Gala Hostess.
Mandarin would have a trolley tour of the famous writers who lived there over the past century. And even white people would know that Zora Neal Hurston lived here.
People would know who Zora Neal Hurston was.
There would be tours of the Confederate monuments and rubbings over the gravestones at the Confederate Graveyard in the Old City Cemetery.
People would be patriotic about Maxwell House. It would have a string of successful cafes all over town.
Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at any given local sporting goods store.
Matt Carlucci would have been Mayor and John Peyton would be president of the Chamber of Commerce.
There would be a Maritime Museum on the riverfront celebrating the many nautical elements of Jacksonville's History.
Old Stanton would be a Music Conservatory which offered a scholarship in the name of the writer of "Lift every Voice and Sing" The River City Band would be housed there.
The Jewish Center and graveyard would have signs on the bridges and highways to point out the gigantic and culturing effect that Jewish people had on Jacksonville, an unexpectedly tolerant and welcoming home in a time and country that met them everywhere else with fear and loathing.
Brochures would direct people to the bohemian district in Five Points, the Gay Mecca at Park and King and the real cracker cooking in the nationally rated southern restaurants of the Northside.
Noel Freidline would be a rich man with a big Jazz Club that he owned somewhere on the Riverwalk.
Marabanong would be a famously discussed historical feature on the Jacksonville tour.
Someone would have said "Thanks" to John Currington for resurrecting San Marco.
Or Lex Hester.
There would be a monument and perhaps a college marking the Landing of Protestant French Huguenots, and you could buy well-researched books about their history here.
There would be reenactments of pirate clipper attacks on the Ortega River, and the locals would brag about which French or English pirate they were descended from.
The Great Black Way would have curio shops and little plastic bubbles with glitter in them swirling round Duke Ellington and Billy Holiday performing at the Ritz, and Klutho's Balustrade would be lit at night so that lovers could walk past the moonlit canal along Hogan's Creek.
There would be bronze statues of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Bill Pickett (the famous black cowboy from Norman Studios in Arlington), Tom Mix and Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy) on the Riverwalk instead of the goofy jogger?
There would be a big Barbeque festival on Main Street every year and people would come from miles around to check out a hundred million recipes for ribs and collard greens.
It would create an interesting and colorful course that teaches our history and the cities issues and require that it be taught to all 7th graders.
The architecture wouldn’t have to be studied from old postcards and books with crossed out black and white photos with the word "demolished" stamped across them.
The urban population would have increased faster adding to the corporate scrapers due to the less restrictive city policy and would make Jacksonville the premier city in Florida if not the southeast.
The sports venues would have been built into the urban fabric allowing neighboring establishments to feed off of the activity.
We would have an iconic courthouse and a bustling government district.
We would have a multi-use convention center producing activity 24-7.
The surrounding neighborhoods would all be connected to the core via a comprehensive network of commuter, light rail or skyway lines.
Visitors to the city would have a multitude of way finding signs leading to attractions, parking, and districts.
Tourist visiting the area wouldn't leave town without making a trip over to the energetic and cultural diverse Jacksonville Farmer's Market District, which connects downtown with historic Durkeeville.
There would be a permanent exhibit of Joe La Rose's shoes at the City hall or perhaps the LaVilla School of the Arts and students would host John Fluevog competitions for shoe design every year.
Downtown would be full of Paparazzi following the exploits of Jacksonville's unbelievably accomplished Spoken Word Royalty.
Al Letson, Liz Straight, David Pugh Allan Justiss, Jon Reich, Valerie Anthony, Christina Wagner, Lee Harvey, and Iain Mairs would be household names. The Mayor would know them all, and they would be able to make a living with speaking engagements.
But we don't have those things.
They are too 'low class', too 'black' and too 'southern'.
Instead we have consultants telling us how to appear more like Indianapolis or Louisville.
If we wanted to be Indianapolis or some other place...
But we don't have a "Jacksonville".
Editorial by Stephen Dare
This article was originally published by Metro Jacksonville on December 21, 2006, however, the same sentiment still persist.
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billy
July 03, 2008, 06:31:51 AMWe would be more like Boston than Birmingham.
We would have culture out the wazoo and still be a great working seaport.
We would have a massive convention center on the river,
a clean river.
You don't need an aquarium when you protect your river and ocean.
You could send your kid to the neighborhood school,
and know that the most ambitious students will go to the Ivy League if they want,
or to a Florida university for free, but any graduate will be able to earn a living wage and raise a family, and stay.
We would produce and attract the same caliber music and performers as Nashville, Atlanta, Athens or Seattle.
Heartbreak Hotel , Lift Every Voice and Sing, and Gimme Three Steps
were written in Jacksonville, or by people from here.
The train terminal would be a beautiful multimodal station.
You could kayak up Hogan's Creek.
Your children could walk to Sunday school downtown from Springfield without fear,
you could impress your friends visiting from Barcelona or Brooklyn,and you could
go hunting or throw a cast net if you wanted.
It would not matter if you were materially rich or poor, there is no other place you would want to live.
JoeMerchant
July 03, 2008, 07:21:50 AMI think it could possibly do what's in the following video...
http://www.contentdg.com/blog/?p=138
tufsu1
July 03, 2008, 07:58:38 AMI did not know that Jacksonville was a city that "hated" itsellf...
This is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
David
July 03, 2008, 09:06:18 AMMeh, it's getting better in recent years with the urban renewal momentum that's building, even if it does sputters at times. The inferiority complex is felt mostly by the natives who are incredibly defensive over our city. Especially those who have traveled a good bit to other places and have seen how simple things can make a city great. I never felt the insecurity complex more than the week leading up to the 2005 superbowl. I’m sitting on the sidewalk outside of London Bridge and Philly & Patriots fan are constantly stopping by and asking “where’s some cool clubs? Where can I get food, how do I get around without a car?" This was before Bay St had anything, before even Burrito gallery, Café 331 and the new clubs at the landing were open and the northbank riverwalk hadn't been finished yet. So when you look at it that way, that’s not bad for 3 years time. As for getting around without a car, yea that's a ways off for now. We still need more late dining options downtown though, and something to pull more people in towards the river.
second_pancake
July 03, 2008, 09:13:14 AMThis is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps? Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad). For the majority of residents of suburban Jacksonville, you could transport them in their sleep to any other suburban destination in any other state and when they woke up they'd have no idea they ever left Jacksonville. Is that how you want to live, in a cookie-cutter world completely devoid of passion and culture?
What the author was speaking about (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sense of pride in our roots and pride in our city, the original city, downtown, of which, the powers-that-be who determine what course of action is going to be taken regarding the best interests of our city, have none.
In my opinion, it truely is unfortunate that so many of our communities which are so far disconnected from the urban core, are considered to be, Jacksonville. It's an injustice to what could be done for and in those smaller communities as well as what could be done for downtown. Orange Park is over 30 minutes away from downtown Jacksonville by highway, the intercoastal communites and the beaches are even further. People who live in those areas have a tendancy to stay in those areas because they have no reason to venture into downtown for anything other than a couple of games or shows and then they're out and back home.
So, again, depending on where you live in 'Jacksonville' and how much you choose to see/learn, it's either going to be "nice" or it will resemble a teenage girl with self-esteem issues, looking at fashion mags and trying to emulate Gisele Bundchen.
Eazy E
July 03, 2008, 10:16:21 AMThe Southern Music Hall of Fame would be open and full to capacity somewhere in downtown. Molly Hatchet, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers would have exhibits there and all the music aficionados would know a history of the Southern music and the Jacksonville music scene
well, maybe Jacksonville having incompetent leadership isn't such a bad thing after all...
thelakelander
July 03, 2008, 10:31:38 AMA Southern Music Hall of Fame would also have to include Ray Charles, James Weldon Johnson and Blind Blake, the King Of Ragtime Guitar.
tufsu1
July 03, 2008, 10:33:56 AMThis is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps? Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad).
Some people live in the suburbs...others in established neighborhoods like Riverside and Springfield....I, for one, live downtown....and, yes, I agree there is much potential that has often been squandered....but its still a pretty nice place to live!
If you don't like it, you can always move!
stephendare
July 03, 2008, 10:48:44 AMtufsu! read the whole article instead of just the blurb.
thebrokenforum
July 03, 2008, 10:49:41 AMYou shouldn't get offended. I don't think that's the point of the article. A lot of people here do have an inferiority complex - just bring up the topic of the Jags moving or Tony Kornhieser to see examples. The major point of this article is, I think, the diamond in the coal analogy, which is so very true. Jax has some great things - if it didn't none of us would be here. But it could have some really cool stuff if it tried - if we had leaders who were progressive thinking and trying to get more investors, and if the media didn't try so hard to freak everyone out every evening.
Excellent article. Stories like these are why I continue coming here. This one, the Dixieland Park and the 30's Days stories are all excellent stuff and deserves to be in the front page spotlight. I wish the rest of the city could read this stuff because, agree or disagree, it gets people talking and that's almost always a good thing.
David
July 03, 2008, 11:30:28 AMi'm sure all of us at one point in time pulled the "you can move" line on people. It's a natural reaction when you listen to the type of people that bitch about how it's so much better where they're from (not saying anyone's doing that here)
but seriously, with all the transplants who brag about how much better their city is up north or outwest, it can be a drain on you as a local. One of the best lines I heard from a defensive local yokal in response to typical jacksonville smack talk was "you know, 95 is open all year round. Here's what you do, take the 95 north exit and just...drive...for ohhhhh about 15 hours and there you go! You'll be back in outragerous realestate land in no time!"
Thankfully most transplants are happy to be here, and bring some of their culture along with them.
stephendare
July 03, 2008, 11:36:15 AMAgain, thats the point of the article. I think TUFSU just didnt read the actual story.
Add to the list a Pullman Fellows Museum to honor A Phillip Randolph.
We had an absolutely fascinating discussion the other night tying in the African American Railmen, and the Negro Baseball League and A Phillip Randolph. I had no idea that he was such a pivotal character.
thelakelander
July 03, 2008, 11:49:48 AMAdvocates in Chicago saw the need to open a museum showcasing the works of the Civil Rights leader that grew up in Jacksonville.
These pioneering efforts created the first bona fied union for the African American worker. This victorious struggle in America’s early labor movement was also the doorway through which many civil rights gains were made.
The A. Philip Randolph Museum is locally recognized as a historic site and is a unique addition to the tourism sites of the Pullman community of Chicago, Illinois. The Museum is also nationally recognized as a valuable and unique African-American museum. The A. Philip Randolph museum pays tribute to one of the most influential African-American leaders in history. A. Philip Randolph redefined American labor, American democracy, and American society. During a time when it was unsafe and unpopular, Randolph demanded that African-American people be fully and equally included in American society. A. Philip Randolph was an intelligent and fair leader who devoted decades of his life to his vision of a more moral and civilized American society. A Philip Randolph was a great man, a great humanitarian, and a great American.
http://aphiliprandolphmuseum.com/
About the life of Philip Randolph
He and his family moved to Jacksonville in 1891. This was the place where he and his brother attended school. They both excelled by being the top in their classes at the Cookman Institute. After school, he was reduced to menial work. In the spring of 1911, he traveled to New York with a friend, secretly hoping to become an actor. He took classes at City College, and bowing to his parents objections to an acting career, switched from drama to politics and economics, soon joining the socialist party. During this time Randolph met his future wife, Lucille Green, a 31 year old widow from Christianburg, Virginia.
Randolph soon met another friend from North Carolina. His name was Chandler Owen. He was studying sociology and political science at Columbia University. They both shared the same ideas and would soon become soap box orators and establish THE MESSENGER, a radical Harlem magazine, in 1917.
He organized The Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters which was considered the first serious effort of unionizing the Pullman company. The Pullman company was the most powerful business organization in the country, and it viciously resisted efforts to unionize.
full story: http://www.phila.k12.pa.us/schools/randolph/A_P_Randolph.html
xian1118
July 03, 2008, 12:14:35 PMQuality article SD. For all the talk of liking and disliking Jacksonville, more people need to step up and show the pride they have for the city. As a life-long resident and self-proclaimed "ambassador" for the city, it's important that every single one of us take responsibility to transform the city into the exceptional place we all know it has the potential to be...instead of bitching about all the things that hold us back. It will be a fine day when the participants of this website and other young inspired voices take the next step to hold City Council seats and realize these dreams.
BridgeTroll
July 03, 2008, 12:21:06 PMAbsolutely!
stephendare
July 03, 2008, 12:59:46 PMThanks xian! Its from the heart.
Lake or Ock. what was the connection with the Negroe Baseball League?
thelakelander
July 03, 2008, 01:32:36 PMJacksonville's Negro League baseball team was known as the Jacksonville Redcaps before relocating to Cleveland in 1939. A large segment of Jacksonville's early African-American population worked with the railroads. Many black men worked as "RedCaps" or "Porters" (men who helped passengers with their baggage and supplies). Randolph organized the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Philip_Randolph
There's also a movie called 10,000 Black Men Named George about the Brotherhood, that comes on TV from time to time.
More about Randolph:
Asa Philip Randolph was born April 15, 1889, in Crescent City, Fla., the second son of the Rev. James William Randolph, a tailor and ordained minister in the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church, and Elizabeth Robinson Randolph, a skilled seamstress. In 1891, the family moved to Jacksonville, which had a thriving, well-established African American community. From his father, Randolph learned that color was less important than a person's character and conduct. From his mother, he learned the importance of education and of defending oneself physically, if necessary. Randolph remembered vividly the night his mother sat in the front room of their house with a loaded shotgun across her lap, while his father tucked a pistol under his coat and went off to prevent a mob from lynching a man in the local county jail.
Asa and his brother, James, were superior students. The Randolph brothers attended the Cookman Institute in East Jacksonville, for years the only academic high school for African Americans in Florida. Asa excelled in literature, drama and public speaking; starred on the school's baseball team; sang solos with its choir; and was valedictorian of the 1907 graduating class.
After graduation, Randolph worked odd jobs and devoted his time to singing, acting and reading. W.E.B. Du Bois' The Souls of Black Folk convinced him that the fight for social equality was more important than almost anything else. He moved to New York City in 1911 to become an actor but gave up after failing to win his parents' approval. Columbia University student Chandler Owen shared Randolph's intellectual interests and became his close collaborators.
In 1914, Randolph courted and married Mrs. Lucille E. Green, a widow, Howard University graduate and entrepreneur who shared his socialist politics and earned enough money to support them both. The couple had no children.
Randolph joined the Socialist Party and began to harangue the crowds at Harlem's soapbox corner (135th Street and Lenox Avenue) about socialism and the importance of militant class-consciousness. In January 1917, William White, president of the Headwaiters and Sidewaiters Society of Greater New York, asked them to edit a monthly magazine for the society, Hotel Messenger. Randolph and Owen dropped "Hotel" from the masthead and in November 1917 published the first issue of the Messenger, which soon became known as "one of the most brilliantly edited magazines in the history of American Negro journalism."
Their magazine provided an outlet for those who, like Randolph and Owen, were opposed to both the cautious elitism of the NAACP and the utopian populism of Marcus Garvey's United Negro Improvement Association. By now established figures in the Socialist Party in New York, Randolph and Owen embarked on a nationwide anti-war speaking tour in 1918 that brought them to the attention of the U.S. Department of Justice and almost got them arrested.
In June 1925, a group of Pullman porters, the all-black service staff of the Pullman sleeping cars, approached Randolph and asked him to lead their new organization, the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters. Randolph agreed. Besides his abiding interest in and knowledge of unions, Randolph's primary qualification for the job was his reputation for incorruptibility and the fact that he was not a Pullman Company employee—meaning the company could not fire him or buy him off. For the next 10 years, Randolph led an arduous campaign to organize the Pullman porters, which resulted in the certification of the BSCP as the exclusive collective bargaining agent of the Pullman porters in 1935. Randolph called it the "first victory of Negro workers over a great industrial corporation."
Randolph became the most widely known spokesperson for black working-class interests in the country. In December 1940, with President Franklin Roosevelt refusing to issue an executive order banning discrimination against black workers in the defense industry, Randolph called for "10,000 loyal Negro American citizens" to march on Washington, D.C. Support grew so quickly that soon he was calling for 100,000 marchers to converge on the capital. Pressed to take action, President Roosevelt issued an executive order on June 25, 1941, six days before the march was to occur, declaring "there shall be no discrimination in the employment of workers in defense industries or government because of race, creed, color, or national origin." Roosevelt also set up the Fair Employment Practices Commission to oversee the order.
Six years later, after the passage of the Selective Service Act of 1947, Randolph demanded that the government integrate the armed forces. He founded the League for Nonviolent Civil Disobedience Against Military Segregation and urged young men, both black and white, to "refuse to cooperate with a Jim Crow conscription service." Threatened with widespread civil disobedience and needing the black vote in his 1948 re-election campaign, President Harry Truman on July 26, 1948, ordered an end to military discrimination "as quickly as possible."
The March on Washington movement and Randolph's call for civil disobedience to end segregation in the armed forces helped convince the next generation of civil rights activists that nonviolent protests and mass demonstrations were the best way to mobilize public pressure. Randolph was, in this sense, the true "father of the civil rights movement" in the United States. The movement recognized his role by naming him the chair of the 1963 March on Washington, at which Martin Luther King Jr. gave his famous "I Have a Dream" speech, and by heeding his advice to cooperate in keeping the march nonviolent.
Randolph was elected a vice president of the newly merged AFL-CIO in 1955. He used his position to push for desegregation and respect for civil rights inside the labor movement as well as outside. He was one of the founders of the Negro American Labor Council and served as its president from 1960 to 1966. In 1964 he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Lyndon Johnson.
Retiring as president of the BSCP in 1968, Randolph was named the president of the recently formed A. Philip Randolph Institute, established to promote trade unionism in the black community. He continued to serve on the AFL-CIO Executive Council until 1974. He died in New York City on May 16, 1979.
www.aflcio.org/aboutus/history/history/randolph.cfm
thelakelander
July 03, 2008, 01:38:15 PMBtw, the Cookman Institute (where many of Jacksonville's early black students attended school) would later merge with another school to become Bethune Cookman College (now Bethune Cookman University) in Daytona Beach.
So the recent FSU Medical School we lost out on when they picked Daytona instead, is not the first school to do so.
tufsu1
July 03, 2008, 02:01:02 PMI did Stephen...and its very interesting....but blanket statements at the beginning turn some people off....and then they stop reading!
stephendare
July 03, 2008, 02:02:00 PMI did Stephen...and its very interesting....but blanket statements at the beginning turn some people off....and then they stop reading!
I find this very true, and thanks for the compliment.
I don't retreat from the statement though. As a seventh generation native, It seems to me that the city must hate itself NOT to celebrate its past and its achievements past and present.
Wayne Wood's books and their popularity, I think are a great step in the right direction.
second_pancake
July 03, 2008, 03:12:47 PMThis is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps? Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad).
Some people live in the suburbs...others in established neighborhoods like Riverside and Springfield....I, for one, live downtown....and, yes, I agree there is much potential that has often been squandered....but its still a pretty nice place to live!
If you don't like it, you can always move!
I am moving...to TX. Hopefully, when I come back to visit friends, I'll see Jacksonville making changes for the better instead of watching it continue to disenegrate around me.
RiversideGator
July 03, 2008, 04:20:20 PMAre passages which include filthy language really necessary?
I know you hate Craig van Horne but this is really overboard:
stephendare
July 03, 2008, 04:34:51 PMI know you hate Craig van Horne but this is really overboard:
River. Stop being such a prissy old woman.
Im an adult, This isnt a childrens novel and I actually don't appreciate your remonstrances.
You make it into a much bigger deal than it is when you do this.
I can see taking offense at 'bad' words when they are directed AT someone, but this essay was actually written two years ago and not really directed at anyone.
Ray Mason should be a household name. I think that we spend way too much time on vulgar real estate developers, not limited to the present example and pay no attention to the really important lasting contributions of the sons and daughters of this city.
Mason was the architect of modern business relations between the Arabs and the West. His contribution literally cannot be overestimated, yet NO ONE knows a damn thing about him.
heights unknown
July 03, 2008, 04:46:15 PMI don't think Jacksonville is a city that hates itself, but I do think it is a city that is being held back by short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power, and Jax just has not realized it's full unlimited potential.
Jax, up until about 1960 was the City that could rather than the City that couldn't after 1960 and beyond. Florida cities emulated Jax up until about that point; now it is the opposite, Jax doesn't have an identity or know its identity so it looks to other cities within Florida and around the nation to emulate. We need to find out our own identity and realize our own self worth and who we are.
Until that happens, Jax will flounder, be uncertain and unsure of itself, thus holding its full potential back or even snuffing it out.
My opinion.
Heights Unknown
thebrokenforum
July 03, 2008, 04:53:01 PMExactly!
Just curious...would starting a petition to get a maritime museum, an aquarium etc. etc. do any good if enough people were interested?
stephendare
July 03, 2008, 05:13:46 PMOne of the Mayors Administrators just called with a very touching acknowledgement of todays article.
They noticed and forwarded the essay to others in the administration and thanked us for leaving an inspirational guide of things to think about on the holiday weekend.
This town has good people in it, and not all of them are dead yet.
rjp2008
July 03, 2008, 05:18:50 PMOne thing I really notice about Jacksonville is that there is a strong core of people who really care about it's development and community. You don't see that in big metro areas, and that's really something.
There is a stronger identity of "we" here than in other areas and that's a huge plus.
RiversideGator
July 03, 2008, 06:51:54 PMI am neither prissy, old nor a woman. However, do you think that foul language (1) enhances your message and its general appeal or (2) takes away from it and causes many people to stop reading it and/or discount many of the valid points contained in it? Just something to consider if you want to be taken seriously and make a difference.
pwhitford
July 03, 2008, 07:53:27 PMStephen - congratulations on a beautiful piece of work. The scope of the article is epic and the information you provide could fill volumes, if followed up on – and it should be! Great thought provoking article. Now let’s see what kind of action it produces.
As a transplanted northerner (and from that modern day Gomorrah, New York City, to boot!) as well as one of those dreaded Orange Park-to-Downtown commuters, I think this town has incredible potential, so much so that I don't think most people can even begin to grasp the possibilities (most participants in this site excepted, of course). And I am not even a little interested in moving back, but I can understand a native's reaction to what he/she hears so often.
You want identity – look to your river; you want character, look to the incredible history of this place (the music, the artists, the personalities, the commerce (maritime and overland). The frustration really comes from seeing how close this town is to being great, a true regional leader, and how often it is ruthlessly used by shameless and callow men for their own immediate gain.
I recommend this site to just about everyone I speak to, so keep up the good work. And I believe the word is spreading and people are "waking up". Witness: the effect you are having on the JTA and the very real possibility of commuter and light rail transit here in Jacksonville. This wouldn’t even be on the table for discussion if the powers that be had been left to their own devices. This was the result, at least in part, of the work you all do at this site. Thanks, for this article and everything else.
JaguarReign
July 03, 2008, 08:03:04 PMI think there were many good points in the article and I agree with a lot of it. Optimistically speaking, I think things are starting to look up. I remember 7 years ago when I last living in the area before I returned a few months ago, there was about half of the stuff to do than there is now. Plus, I think the jaguars have really done wonders for this city. Ever since the jags got here Jacksonville has grown as a city exponentially and given us a national identitiy. I think with them in tow, Jacksonville is turning around for the better.
Ocklawaha
July 04, 2008, 01:13:18 AMCertainly a "Smart City" would have gone with St. Elmo Acosta's plan to convert the FEC RY line from Southbank - (via Beach Blvd alignment) - Jax Beach - Mayport, into an electric interurban that would be with us today. Many other "Median Strip" car lines of Jacksonville Traction, not unlike those in New Orleans would have stayed in place as well...if we only had a brain.
On Mr. Phillip Randolph of Pullman fame, here are a couple of fill in bits that will let the rest of you in on my little secret:
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William D'Alton Mann (1839-1920)
career as civil engineer cut short by Civil War
organized the Fifth Michigan Cavalry and later the Seventh
Commanded latter at Gettysberg
during war invented and poatented various improvements to soldiers' equipment and made a fdortune on their sale to federal government
after war settled in Mobile, Al
acquired and edited Mobile Register (newspaper) and took interest in politics
9 Jan 1872 received patent on sleeping car divided by transverse partitions into compartments
USPat 122,622: doors in side like in europe/ small toilet each compart, seats convertible to beds running crosswise to direction of travel
spent next 10 yrs intro to Continent Europe
8 Jan 1878 invented corridor car & car vestibule used on train built in England for use in Russia
USPat 198,991 / car had corridor length of car, communal restrooms, one sex each end
vestibules were closed -- forerunner of present-day (1957) compartment cars
On ret to US organized MBCC to build & operate cars
The Mann Boudoir Car Company was chartered in the state of New York 23 March 1883. It operated at a loss for its first 5 years.
cars used on Springfield line betw Boston & NY 1883
became popular w/ public but not RR because of limited capacity
The December 1888 issue of the Official Railway Guide startled the railroad world (and most of all George M. Pullman) with this announcement: "Union Palace Car Co.... will commence operating SLEEPING AND PARLOR CARS on about 15,000 miles of railroad in January 1889." Union had been incorporated 24 September 1888 in New Jersey by Job H. Jackson of Jackson & Sharp to secure control of the Mann Boudoir Car Company and the Woodruff Sleeping & Parlor Coach Company. The two companies operated a total of 34 cars on about 5,000 miles of railroads in the East, South, and Midwest. Pullman lost no time. Two months later Union Palace was purchased by Pullmans Palace Car Company for $2.5 million. Some parts of Union seem to have survived, because it was not finally dissolved until 1899.
The whole PULLMAN and carpet bagger era hits close to home, Jacksonville was HUGE in both worlds.
While a relation of "Ocklawaha" the majority of my family was on the other side in the War of Yankee Aggression, therefore, had I been alive... Perhaps Col Mann wouldn't have! Viva Quantrail!
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Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George"
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A Pullman sleeping car porter.The Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping Car Porters "George" (SPCSCPG) was an association composed largely of railway sleeping car porters in the United States to promote the elimination of the degrading and racist practice of referring to all porters by the name "George" regardless of their actual name. The name refers to George Pullman, of the Pullman Company, which at one time manufactured and operated a large proportion of all the sleeping cars in North America. Porters were overwhelmingly African American, and the practice presumably derived from the old custom of naming slaves after their masters, in this case porters being regarded as servants of George Pullman. The society was initiated by white railway employees actually named George, who were either annoyed by the practice, or thought that founding the society would be an amusing joke.
At its peak, the society had 31,000 members, including King George V of the United Kingdom, American baseball player George Herman "Babe" Ruth, and French politician Georges Clemenceau.[1]
Phillip Randolph formed the first African American Labor Union and became active in the Civil Rights struggle.
He organized the Brotherhood of Pullman Porters in 1925, but they were refused collective bargaining until the Socialist Party put pressure on the Pullman. Finally about 1937 they won a contract. Today the sons of Pullman Porters and onboard train crews are often represented by the Brotherhood of Railway and Airline Clerks, or the UTU.
Ocklawaha
Coolyfett
July 04, 2008, 10:42:24 AMThis is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
Thats interesting. I think you may want to talk to more people outside of the immediate circle. Hate is a bit strong, I wouldn't say HATE is word to use in that sentence. Maybe "lack of pride" or 'lack of interest" from many of the citizens.
Sentence should read...Why does Jacksonville ignore itself?
Coolyfett
July 04, 2008, 10:49:34 AMThis is very odd to me, because most of the people I talk to who live here seem to think its a pretty nice place!
Do any of these people live in urban areas or do they all live in the suburbs...St. John's county perhaps? Jacksonville will always appear to be a "nice place" when you shut yourself out from the reality of what it is and what it has the potential to become (good and bad). For the majority of residents of suburban Jacksonville, you could transport them in their sleep to any other suburban destination in any other state and when they woke up they'd have no idea they ever left Jacksonville. Is that how you want to live, in a cookie-cutter world completely devoid of passion and culture?
What the author was speaking about (correct me if I'm wrong) is a sense of pride in our roots and pride in our city, the original city, downtown, of which, the powers-that-be who determine what course of action is going to be taken regarding the best interests of our city, have none.
In my opinion, it truely is unfortunate that so many of our communities which are so far disconnected from the urban core, are considered to be, Jacksonville. It's an injustice to what could be done for and in those smaller communities as well as what could be done for downtown. Orange Park is over 30 minutes away from downtown Jacksonville by highway, the intercoastal communites and the beaches are even further. People who live in those areas have a tendancy to stay in those areas because they have no reason to venture into downtown for anything other than a couple of games or shows and then they're out and back home.
So, again, depending on where you live in 'Jacksonville' and how much you choose to see/learn, it's either going to be "nice" or it will resemble a teenage girl with self-esteem issues, looking at fashion mags and trying to emulate Gisele Bundchen.
Coolyfett
July 04, 2008, 11:06:26 AMRest your fingers mate. The word "TURTLES" works just fine.
Turtles - short sighted people and leaders now and in the past that have been in power.
stephendare
July 04, 2008, 11:56:40 AMIts a self loathing city.
I think because we are so uninformed about our own heritage that most people assume that if you dig very deep at all, it must be a calumny of racist rednecks etc.
To be sure, we had our share of those, like any other city, but our actual heritage and history is awesome.
The difference between us and other cities is that they celebrate themselves.
We hide it.
Even in this thread weve had a comment about maybe it would be better if out Southern Fried Rock superstars werent spotlighted.
Self hatred pure and simple.
We have been in thrall too long to the consultants who think we should be more like philly or columbus.
We certainly can learn some infrastructure and techniques from those cities.
But we take the 'being more like' thing too far.
Ocklawaha
July 04, 2008, 03:02:09 PMDaughter Trilby just had a brain storm worth mention here...
"Dad, why don't you push the MJ guys to draw the Riverwalk like those beautiful sidewalks in South America (something posted on another thread recently if I recall). Then get the city to put our own walk of fame into the walk. Big Hollywood Stars! Names like Oliver Hardy, Allonso Mitchell, Tom Mix, Ray Charles, Phillip Randolph. I mean, we were the original Hollywood right? So why should they have a lock on it. Then over in by the railing, add a history marker, or a lifesize bronze..."
Damn Girl! Hum? What do y'all think of that one? Imagine getting ones photo taken with a lifesize Oliver Hardy as he leans on the rail looking out over the river? His own star illuminated behind him? DAMN!
Ocklawaha
thelakelander
July 04, 2008, 03:08:27 PMHumm. A Jacksonville Walk of Fame? The idea definately has a lot a merit. What would be the best location for something like this?
A. Friendship Fountain area
B. Proposed Shipyards Pier
C. Northbank Riverwalk - between Landing and TU Center or CSX
D. Northbank Riverwalk - near the Hyatt
E. Southbank Riverwalk
F. Other
ProjectMaximus
July 04, 2008, 05:08:10 PM"Dad, why don't you push the MJ guys to draw the Riverwalk like those beautiful sidewalks in South America (something posted on another thread recently if I recall). Then get the city to put our own walk of fame into the walk. Big Hollywood Stars! Names like Oliver Hardy, Allonso Mitchell, Tom Mix, Ray Charles, Phillip Randolph. I mean, we were the original Hollywood right? So why should they have a lock on it. Then over in by the railing, add a history marker, or a lifesize bronze..."
Damn Girl! Hum? What do y'all think of that one? Imagine getting ones photo taken with a lifesize Oliver Hardy as he leans on the rail looking out over the river? His own star illuminated behind him? DAMN!
Ocklawaha
I think this is a very logical first step in demonstrating civic pride to outsiders. Simple, minor, yet very effective.
Trilby
July 04, 2008, 05:33:15 PM"Hey everybody! its ocks daughter. ive met some of you, and some of you just know me from my dad and his love to speak. =] {about everything!} My home is florida however. born and halfway raised in orlando. the other half raised in oklahoma. which no offense to you okies but for me its the closest to hell i could get. I love my florida, and i think this is a great way to voice our opinions on what needs to be done...and what DOESNT need to be done. so now you have another big mouth on here. like father like daughter!"
Im happy someone looked at my idea! i had an idea of calling it "the jacksonvilles stars" i have heard stories from my father how jacksonville would have been the first hollywood. and its such a shame...and possibly a good thing that it didnt happen! however...so many early films were done here. and so many famous people have come out of this city, that i believe they deserve some recognition. being a myspace junkie. and facebook. i love to take cool pictures downtown and outside and post them for everyone too see. and i could just see it now. all the young people going downtown to take pictures next to their FAVORITE "jacksonville" star. its a way to reach out to people young and old...teach them some history. but make it fun..and interesting. so the word "history" doesnt scare them away.
<3
Trilby
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:10:29 AMThis is a partial listing of the musical celebrities from or associated with Jacksonville.
Are you f*@#ing kidding me that we don't have some sort of public hall or museum or conservatory that celebrates this?
For God's sake. This is the city that invented an entire genre of Music: Southern Fried Rock. We own it.
lynyrd skynyrd
molly hatchet
allman brothers
38 special
Blackfoot
Brian Leisegang, Filter, Nine Inch Nails
Limp Bizkit
Yellowcard
Black Kids
Ray Charles
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:13:33 AMlinks and more people.
38 special http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special_%28band%29
allman brothers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Allman_Brothers_Band
molly hatchet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Hatchet
Blackfoot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackfoot_%28band%29
Rossington Collins Band http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rossington-Collins_Band
Yellow Card http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcard
Brian Liesegang Filter, 9 Inch Nails Veruca Salt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Liesegang
Todd Eberle http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/exhibition/eberle
Wakefield Poole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakefield_Poole (the Godfather of Gay Porn. believe it or not, our gentle wakefield was really the first person to do it and show it at theatres)
Michael Emerson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Emerson
Ronnie Land http://rlandart.com/
Fred Durst http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Durst
Limp Bizkit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limp_Bizkit
Cold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_(band)
Rena Greek Mero (Sable from WWE) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rena_Mero
Black Kids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Kids
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:26:17 AMCreature from the Black Lagoon
Oliver Hardy
Bill Pickett the Norman Studio's Cowboy
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:37:07 AMDaytime's Connie Fletcher from Jax Beach and Aaron Staten from Beauty and The Beast
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:40:42 AMMichael Emerson
Charles Hunter
July 05, 2008, 10:41:35 AMPat Boone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Boone
Dennis Yost and the Classics IV: http://www.crystalhorizon.com/Classics_IV/Home_Main.htm
And, although not born here, Rita Coolidge graduated from Andrew Jackson HS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Coolidge#Personal_life
OK, a bit before Southern Rock, but still from Jacksonville.
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:47:33 AMZora Neal Hurston
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:50:26 AMRita Coolidge
stephendare
July 05, 2008, 10:58:28 AMSlim Whitman
Pat Boone
blizz01
July 05, 2008, 06:49:08 PMSHINEDOWN
EVERGREEN TERRACE
RED JUMPSUIT APPARATUS
95 SOUTH
downtownparks
July 05, 2008, 08:54:19 PMYellowcard
Limp Bizkit
stephendare
July 07, 2008, 12:36:36 PMLimp Bizkit
great additions dtp. But they were already included in the previous pages.
Ocklawaha
July 07, 2008, 12:43:31 PMIs it possible to get back to design concepts here? I'm wondering if illuminated Stars could be done. Should we add to the lonely jogger full size bronzes of some famous ones? What about historic markers telling their story? On the rail or on the Star? Maybe around the Star? Hey, if the Mayor likes this idea, then lets give them a COMPLETE IDEA.
Ocklawaha
downtownparks
July 07, 2008, 12:45:29 PMLimp Bizkit
great additions dtp. But they were already included in the previous pages.
Clearly I should be beaten with a whip until bloody.
stephendare
July 07, 2008, 12:46:58 PMbrilliant Ock.
I wonder if we could sponsor a sidewalk art contest to paint stars along the riverwalk. Highlight the street artists, limit it to chalks and acrylics....
Historic Markers.
Maybe a meeting with the Art in Public Places Committee in order to propose the statues of the film stars (including The Creature)
Ocklawaha
July 07, 2008, 11:09:10 PMOh yeah, the creature HAS TO BE THERE! He should be next to a fine restaurant coming over the wall. For those too young to remember, the diver did that while filming in Jacksonville. There was a seafood place and suddenly this "THING" came up alongside all these film crews. Well, needless to say, he got instant panic and fame in the fragile minds of the 1950/60 era. It should be remembered, if you haven't see the flick, he wasn't a "bad monster" just a love struck BIGFOOT with scales.
Ocklawaha
stephendare
July 09, 2008, 03:49:20 PMA statue of Ray Charles would stand in the perfectly preserved and popular bar where he first played soul piano and blues in the South.
There would be another museum of Black Film commemorating the achievements of black filmmakers here in Jacksonville.
Peterbrookes, The Loop Pizza and the Chicken Coop would all have gigantic headquarters in the center of town that rivaled the marooned Cruise Ship of a Building that Preston Haskell's company erected to itself on Riverside Avenue. There would be standing lines for tours of Sally Industry.
Blaire Woolverton would have her own cable show and Jake Godbold would have a cookbook.
Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.
When the Jacksonville Film Festival opened every year, Josh Skierski and Chad Hendricks would be the Emcees and Rita Manyette would be the Gala Hostess.
Mandarin would have a trolley tour of the famous writers who lived there over the past century. And even white people would know that Zora Neal Hurston lived here.
People would know who Zora Neal Hurston was.
There would be tours of the Confederate monuments and rubbings over the gravestones at the Confederate Graveyard in the Old City Cemetery.
People would be patriotic about Maxwell House. It would have a string of successful cafes all over town.
Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at any given local sporting goods store.
Matt Carlucci would have been Mayor and John Peyton would be president of the Chamber of Commerce.
There would be a Maritime Museum on the riverfront celebrating the many nautical elements of Jacksonville's History.
Old Stanton would be a Music Conservatory which offered a scholarship in the name of the writer of "Lift every Voice and Sing" The River City Band would be housed there.
The Jewish Center and graveyard would have signs on the bridges and highways to point out the gigantic and culturing effect that Jewish people had on Jacksonville, an unexpectedly tolerant and welcoming home in a time and country that met them everywhere else with fear and loathing.
Brochures would direct people to the bohemian district in Five Points, the Gay Mecca at Park and King and the real cracker cooking in the nationally rated southern restaurants of the Northside.
Noel Freidline would be a rich man with a big Jazz Club that he owned somewhere on the Riverwalk.
Marabanong would be a famously discussed historical feature on the Jacksonville tour.
Someone would have said "Thanks" to John Currington for resurrecting San Marco.
Or Lex Hester.
There would be a monument and perhaps a college marking the Landing of Protestant French Huguenots, and you could buy well-researched books about their history here.
There would be reenactments of pirate clipper attacks on the Ortega River, and the locals would brag about which French or English pirate they were descended from.
The Great Black Way would have curio shops and little plastic bubbles with glitter in them swirling round Duke Ellington and Billy Holiday performing at the Ritz, and Klutho's Balustrade would be lit at night so that lovers could walk past the moonlit canal along Hogan's Creek.
There would be bronze statues of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Bill Pickett (the famous black cowboy from Norman Studios in Arlington), Tom Mix and Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy) on the Riverwalk instead of the goofy jogger?
There would be a big Barbeque festival on Main Street every year and people would come from miles around to check out a hundred million recipes for ribs and collard greens.
It would create an interesting and colorful course that teaches our history and the cities issues and require that it be taught to all 7th graders.
The architecture wouldn’t have to be studied from old postcards and books with crossed out black and white photos with the word "demolished" stamped across them.
The urban population would have increased faster adding to the corporate scrapers due to the less restrictive city policy and would make Jacksonville the premier city in Florida if not the southeast.
The sports venues would have been built into the urban fabric allowing neighboring establishments to feed off of the activity.
We would have an iconic courthouse and a bustling government district.
We would have a multi-use convention center producing activity 24-7.
The surrounding neighborhoods would all be connected to the core via a comprehensive network of commuter, light rail or skyway lines.
Visitors to the city would have a multitude of way finding signs leading to attractions, parking, and districts.
Tourist visiting the area wouldn't leave town without making a trip over to the energetic and cultural diverse Jacksonville Farmer's Market District, which connects downtown with historic Durkeeville.
There would be a permanent exhibit of Joe La Rose's shoes at the City hall or perhaps the LaVilla School of the Arts and students would host John Fluevog competitions for shoe design every year.
Downtown would be full of Paparazzi following the exploits of Jacksonville's unbelievably accomplished Spoken Word Royalty.
Al Letson, Liz Straight, David Pugh Allan Justiss, Jon Reich, Valerie Anthony, Christina Wagner, Lee Harvey, and Iain Mairs would be household names. The Mayor would know them all, and they would be able to make a living with speaking engagements.
But we don't have those things.
They are too 'low class', too 'black' and too 'southern'.
Instead we have consultants telling us how to appear more like Indianapolis or Louisville.
If we wanted to be Indianapolis or some other place...
But we don't have a "Jacksonville".
add to this list, that there would be statues to the two little ladies that preserved the book collection of the 'black' library, and thereby saved a heritage.
That the colorful history of Napoleon Bonaparte Broward, a direct descendant of Napoleon who was both mayor of the city and Governor of Florida.
RiversideGator
July 09, 2008, 06:17:32 PMBroward was not a direct descendant of Napoleon. He was just named for Napoleon.
Napoleon had just one legitimate child and he died without issue. Also, I have never heard this about Broward and can turn up nothing to substantiate it.
stephendare
July 09, 2008, 06:23:38 PMNapoleon Bonapartes court fell apart only to be reassembled under Louise Napoleon.
After Louise Napoleon's regime fell apart, the House of Bonaparte was tossed to the wind.
Interestingly, at some point between the empires, one of the branches relocated to Tallahassee Florida, where the family head became the Postmaster.
I will be glad to find the reference for you. Its listed in the bibliographic notes of a historical novel called "Tom Doyle" which you can find yourself in print version, but Im uncertain at this minute whether the reference is available online.
However, the family affiliation was told to me personally by both his granddaughter, Dorcas, while she was still alive at her Springfield home of 2nd Street, as well as his great grand daughter Jo Drake (Dorcas' daughter).
I will see if I can find a web reference.
stephendare
July 09, 2008, 06:29:18 PMHere is a listing for the Floridian Bonapartes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Achille_Murat
stephendare
July 09, 2008, 07:00:09 PMin reading the family history of the Murats, it appears very likely that the family connection was most likely on an infamous side of the sheets. Even for a lesser cousin of Achilles, it seems unlikely that Catherine would have allowed a legitimate product of the Bloodline to have waited tables at St. Simons.
gregbeere
July 09, 2008, 08:59:26 PMWhy don't we try leading instead of being followers?
What is best for Jacksonville and its citizens?
What are we going to do? Not our government, WE.
Can we push the envelope......a little?
Why does the new Transportation Center look like every other building in town? Who cares if it is compatible with the existing historic architecture in the area around the project?
"Architect Ethan Loubriel, associate vice president of DMJM Harris, said his firm worked closely with state and local historic preservation agencies to ensure the design of the JTC would be compatible with the existing historic architecture in the area around the project."
It is a new building for goodness sake. Old buildings should be cherished and preserved. New buildings, especially those that serve the community should be well designed and yes, maybe push the envelope. Has anyone seen the Seattle Library by the Office for Metropolitan Architecture a.k.a. Rem Koolhaas? Check it's attendance against the Jacksonville Downtown public library.
Bradford is the fifth largest city in the UK with less than half of our population........
This video was very inspiring to me, but if I am the only one, maybe I am in the wrong city.
Take a look........
If nothing else, the video is cool.
"http://www.youtube.com/v/nr2ZzLWcb48&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9e00"
></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed
This is a link to Bradford's redevelopment site.
http://www.bradfordnewcity.com/
thelakelander
July 09, 2008, 09:21:48 PMBoston
Louisville
Indianapolis
Charlotte
Toronto
Jacksonville
It is weird how we are so conservative with our architectural design to blend in with the old, yet we as a community, have no problem tearing down the 100 year old buildings we continue to try to copy. 100 years ago, Jacksonville was a very progressive community. We need to find a way to get our mojo back.
Driven1
July 09, 2008, 09:26:51 PMlol Lake...that is hilarious. i LOVE the Toronto buildings though. Boston tower is beautiful too.
RiversideGator
July 09, 2008, 10:51:29 PMMurat was Napoleon's nephew and he also had no children:
Additionally, Louis Napoleon (aka Napoleon III) was Napoleon I's nephew and was emperor of France until 1870, probably around the time Broward was born. His one child was killed in his 20s and was without issue. The legitimate Napoleonic line died with him. So, that wasnt the connection either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III_of_France
While Napoleon I did have illegitimate children, there is no evidence any of them are related to the Browards. I think this is either a false family legend or an incorrect memory on your part.
stephendare
July 09, 2008, 11:00:05 PMWell its certainly not an incorrect memory on my part.
Although, like yourself, at the time I thought it was merely a family fancy.
It wasnt until 15 years later that I came across the footnote in Tom Doyle that verified the tallahassee cousin connection exactly as Dorcas had explained.
And I had not actually read the murat entry in wikipedia until tonight.
Because of the obscurity of the information, it seems unlikely that the family would have all that detail without it being true.
So I would tend to assume a bastard connection. But I can see the basis for any skepticism.
JaxNative68
July 14, 2008, 02:51:43 PMFirst somebody has to wake up Jacksonville's City leaders, or should I say the good ole boy network that is still alive and starting another generation, and make them stop tearing down the true historical architecture of our city in order to build new visions of a past this city didn't have. The new public library is a perfect example of this.
Ocklawaha
July 14, 2008, 03:16:03 PMImagine! A Jacksonville political connection to Napoleon...
Well historians?
Well?
That sure explains Waterloo!
Ocklawaha
RiversideGator
July 14, 2008, 04:19:31 PMWhat past did we not have? And what is the new public library a perfect example of? We certainly had a large number (and still do) of neoclassical structures in Jacksonville and this style (postmodern) was an obvious reference to that fact.
stephendare
July 14, 2008, 04:38:01 PMWhat past did we not have? And what is the new public library a perfect example of? We certainly had a large number (and still do) of neoclassical structures in Jacksonville and this style (postmodern) was an obvious reference to that fact.
huh?
hogwash.
The sacrilege perpetrated against the historical fabric of this city by the construction of the library is EXACTLY what Jaxnative is talking about.
to think that they tore down the last Jazz Age skyscraper in the state of Florida to build it is sad enough. However to rip the details of the buildings that were actually on the site and then elmer's glue them into place on the unrelenting brick walls of Duval is obscene.
and ghoulish.
JoeMerchant
July 14, 2008, 05:03:07 PMWhat past did we not have? And what is the new public library a perfect example of? We certainly had a large number (and still do) of neoclassical structures in Jacksonville and this style (postmodern) was an obvious reference to that fact.
That library is a total joke. I can post a series of images of new libraries in similar cities that have actually tried to bring their cities architecture forward. Our library totally ignores the pedestrian at street level, although it does have that lovely rooftop garden, which the last time I was there was filled with weeds.
It's a reference of bad design, and I love how it ties back in to the surrounding historical building that had been torn down by super gluing some of the leftover architectural artifacts to the north side of the building, on stucco placeholders.
And don't even get me started about "postmodern" architecture...
Seattle's public library:
Our city jewel:
RiversideGator
July 14, 2008, 05:06:52 PMWhat past did we not have? And what is the new public library a perfect example of? We certainly had a large number (and still do) of neoclassical structures in Jacksonville and this style (postmodern) was an obvious reference to that fact.
huh?
What dont you understand?
to think that they tore down the last Jazz Age skyscraper in the state of Florida to build it is sad enough. However to rip the details of the buildings that were actually on the site and then elmer's glue them into place on the unrelenting brick walls of Duval is obscene.
and ghoulish.
I was not in favor of demolishing the buildings to make way for the new library either. I was discussing the design of the new library in isolation. Perhaps you should not put words into my mouth.
BTW, they did not tear down the "last Jazz Age skyscraper in the state of Florida" to make way for it. The Rhodes Furniture Bldg should not have come down but the Laura Street trio are of similar vintage.
RiversideGator
July 14, 2008, 05:10:27 PMWhat past did we not have? And what is the new public library a perfect example of? We certainly had a large number (and still do) of neoclassical structures in Jacksonville and this style (postmodern) was an obvious reference to that fact.
That library is a total joke. I can post a series of images of new libraries in similar cities that have actually tried to bring their cities architecture forward. Our library totally ignores the pedestrian at street level, although it does have that lovely rooftop garden, which the last time I was there was filled with weeds.
It's a reference of bad design, and I love how it ties back in to the surrounding historical building that had been torn down by super gluing some of the leftover architectural artifacts to the north side of the building, on stucco placeholders.
And don't even get me started about "postmodern" architecture...
Seattle's public library:
Our city jewel:
Agreed. The library design is marginal. It could have been a lot better. But, it could have been a lot worse too.
JoeMerchant
July 14, 2008, 05:13:44 PMWhat past did we not have? And what is the new public library a perfect example of? We certainly had a large number (and still do) of neoclassical structures in Jacksonville and this style (postmodern) was an obvious reference to that fact.
That library is a total joke. I can post a series of images of new libraries in similar cities that have actually tried to bring their cities architecture forward. Our library totally ignores the pedestrian at street level, although it does have that lovely rooftop garden, which the last time I was there was filled with weeds.
It's a reference of bad design, and I love how it ties back in to the surrounding historical building that had been torn down by super gluing some of the leftover architectural artifacts to the north side of the building, on stucco placeholders.
And don't even get me started about "postmodern" architecture...
Seattle's public library:
Our city jewel:
Agreed. The library design is marginal. It could have been a lot better. But, it could have been a lot worse too.
Well. that's one excuse I'm tired of hearing though. Of course it could have been done worse, but who cares about that. Instead of aiming at mediocrity at the beginning, why not use the imagination and try to aim for the stars at the beginning, and then maybe have to make some changes and value engineer from there.
Don't start at the middle of the pack and then go down from there...
thelakelander
July 14, 2008, 05:15:18 PMI believe the Laura Street Trio buildings are from an earlier decade and era. The Rhodes Building may have been the last highrise built before the Great Depression and while the Barnett, Carling and others are from the same time period, the Rhodes was probably Jacksonville's best example of Chicago School highrise architecture.
Nevertheless, as far as the new library goes, the bad part of the design is that every elevation of the building, other than the front, was evidently an afterthought. The design has rendered the retail spaces across the Monroe and Duval Street as dead zones. A good traditional or contemporary design would have found a way to work with those streets as well.
My dream scenerio would have been a project that keep the old buildings on that block and placed the library on surface parking lot block, like the one the pocket park and Salvation Army occupy.
stephendare
July 14, 2008, 08:41:10 PMNevertheless, as far as the new library goes, the bad part of the design is that every elevation of the building, other than the front, was evidently an afterthought. The design has rendered the retail spaces across the Monroe and Duval Street as dead zones. A good traditional or contemporary design would have found a way to work with those streets as well.
My dream scenerio would have been a project that keep the old buildings on that block and placed the library on surface parking lot block, like the one the pocket park and Salvation Army occupy.
exactly lake.
it was also the last Florida Land Boom Building
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072501/met_history.html
stephendare
July 25, 2008, 01:54:39 PMWe would have culture out the wazoo and still be a great working seaport.
We would have a massive convention center on the river,
a clean river.
You don't need an aquarium when you protect your river and ocean.
You could send your kid to the neighborhood school,
and know that the most ambitious students will go to the Ivy League if they want,
or to a Florida university for free, but any graduate will be able to earn a living wage and raise a family, and stay.
We would produce and attract the same caliber music and performers as Nashville, Atlanta, Athens or Seattle.
Heartbreak Hotel , Lift Every Voice and Sing, and Gimme Three Steps
were written in Jacksonville, or by people from here.
The train terminal would be a beautiful multimodal station.
You could kayak up Hogan's Creek.
Your children could walk to Sunday school downtown from Springfield without fear,
you could impress your friends visiting from Barcelona or Brooklyn,and you could
go hunting or throw a cast net if you wanted.
It would not matter if you were materially rich or poor, there is no other place you would want to live.
These are such awesome additions
thelakelander
July 25, 2008, 02:49:14 PMWe could be more like Birmingham too. They're getting ready to spend $33 million to construct a starter streetcar line that will connect all of their inner city attractions and downtown neighborhoods together.
stephendare
July 28, 2008, 11:48:24 AMThen by all means lets get started doing the same thing.
What does it take? Petitions?
Referendums?
Ocklawaha
July 28, 2008, 12:12:44 PMI'm afraid unless someone bellys up to to the bar, the above statement answers it for Jacksonville... "inner city attractions". Okay, NAME 10 that would make you pull off the freeway. We simply have to put the boot to the hind quarters of certain people in City Hall. The AIA plans for Randolph sound fantastic, but I didn't see a soul there willing to ante-up. I bet the TOD thing is all Socialism Crap that somehow got mixed up with TOD ONLY IN THE PEOPLES DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF JACKSONVILLE! The Transit Authority doesn't buy and build TOD's, that is the private sectors job, thus DEVELOPMENT as in tax money, income, jobs, returns. All this BRT hype about tearing down old shopping centers for a bus station with a laundry mat and news stand is pure BULL. Real transit will bring about real TOD. Likewise, something very cool would get folks out of their cars and downtown. A few we've mentioned...
Negro League HOME Phillip Randolph-Pullman Porter-Red Cap Museum
Heritage Streetcar Line WITH museum (see I put it number 3)
New Landing
Bay Street Station
Southern Fried Rock Hall of fame
giant fish tank
maritime museum
Seminole game center
Which of the above are active?
OCKLAWAHA
stephendare
July 28, 2008, 12:22:48 PMWell now Ock, we do have some really cool things in our inner city.
1. The Jacksonville Symphony Orchestra.
2. Jennifer Johnson and Preston Haskell's awesome private collections on loan to the Museum of Contemporary Art.
3. One of the six repositories of the finest document collection in the world, The Karpeles Museum.
4. The Friday Musicale Music Hall in Riverside.
5. The Veteran's Arena
6. The Stadium which is also the home playing field of and NFL franchise team, the Jaguars.
7. The Five Points Bohemian District.
8. The Riverwalk, especially during fireworks displays.
9. The Pavillion at Metropolitan Park, especially during performances and festivals.
10. The Florida Theatre and its programming of vintage films and Concerts.
Charleston native
July 28, 2008, 01:32:40 PMStephen, thank you for posting some positive things about the city. At times, it can be discouraging for me to read some of these posts as I hope to live down there.
Ocklawaha
July 28, 2008, 02:01:02 PMTHanks Stephen, you've just named 10 great reasons to build my streetcar line as the neck-piece on this string of pearls. I hope JTA is watching, and Mr. Peyton? How about you? With the Skyway and the Streetcar we would be the only city in the world where Buck Rogers Transit, meets Mr. Hardy and Mr. Tom Mix.
Ocklawaha
jrtmom
July 28, 2008, 07:08:43 PMAnd we have a number of great parks too! In my neck of the woods we have Confederate - with the beautiful Women of the South sculpture and the rose arbor...not to mention the Springfield Dog Park! And Klutho, with the bandstand, the ball field, the fountain....and those two are just a small part of the near-downtown parks. What about the Treaty Oak?? Lots of cool stuff all walkable.
downtownparks
July 28, 2008, 08:34:44 PMYour right JRT. Another great park that is vastly underused is A Phillip Randolph Park. It was done well, but spends much of its time locked up, or being used as a social services handout point.
With the nice little performing area, how about free-form jazz fridays, or big brother big sister weekly gatherings to use the playgorunds.
Sadly Oakland park and Liberty Park have been pretty well destroyed at this point, but if we could get some positivity back in the parks, it would be huge. In fact, if you were to focus much of the at risk youth efforts in the parks, you would probably reach a far greater number of kids earlier.
stephendare
July 28, 2008, 08:59:48 PMI'm afraid unless someone bellys up to to the bar, the above statement answers it for Jacksonville... "inner city attractions". Okay, NAME 10 that would make you pull off the freeway.
stephendare
October 21, 2008, 03:57:52 PMSome say, "Jacksonville is a diamond that wants to remain coal". What would it be like if Jacksonville were a city that didn’t hate itself... led by people who acknowledged its achievements?
Here are a few things that possibly would have happened in New York, Rome, London Paris, Seattle, or San Francisco if the leaders that made them into Great Cities had been given our city and history.
The George Washington Hotel on Adams Street, would be the premier boutique hotel in downtown, instead of the surface parking lot it is today.
The Southern Music Hall of Fame would be open and full to capacity somewhere in downtown. Molly Hatchet, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers would have exhibits there and all the music aficionados would know a history of the Southern music and the Jacksonville music scene.
A statue of Ray Charles would stand in the perfectly preserved and popular bar where he first played soul piano and blues in the South.
There would be another museum of Black Film commemorating the achievements of black filmmakers here in Jacksonville.
Peterbrookes, The Loop Pizza and the Chicken Coop would all have gigantic headquarters in the center of town that rivaled the marooned Cruise Ship of a Building that Preston Haskell's company erected to itself on Riverside Avenue. There would be standing lines for tours of Sally Industry.
Blaire Woolverton would have her own cable show and Jake Godbold would have a cookbook.
Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.
When the Jacksonville Film Festival opened every year, Josh Skierski and Chad Hendricks would be the Emcees and Rita Manyette would be the Gala Hostess.
Mandarin would have a trolley tour of the famous writers who lived there over the past century. And even white people would know that Zora Neal Hurston lived here.
People would know who Zora Neal Hurston was.
There would be tours of the Confederate monuments and rubbings over the gravestones at the Confederate Graveyard in the Old City Cemetery.
People would be patriotic about Maxwell House. It would have a string of successful cafes all over town.
Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at any given local sporting goods store.
Matt Carlucci would have been Mayor and John Peyton would be president of the Chamber of Commerce.
There would be a Maritime Museum on the riverfront celebrating the many nautical elements of Jacksonville's History.
Old Stanton would be a Music Conservatory which offered a scholarship in the name of the writer of "Lift every Voice and Sing" The River City Band would be housed there.
The Jewish Center and graveyard would have signs on the bridges and highways to point out the gigantic and culturing effect that Jewish people had on Jacksonville, an unexpectedly tolerant and welcoming home in a time and country that met them everywhere else with fear and loathing.
Brochures would direct people to the bohemian district in Five Points, the Gay Mecca at Park and King and the real cracker cooking in the nationally rated southern restaurants of the Northside.
Noel Freidline would be a rich man with a big Jazz Club that he owned somewhere on the Riverwalk.
Marabanong would be a famously discussed historical feature on the Jacksonville tour.
Someone would have said "Thanks" to John Currington for resurrecting San Marco.
Or Lex Hester.
There would be a monument and perhaps a college marking the Landing of Protestant French Huguenots, and you could buy well-researched books about their history here.
There would be reenactments of pirate clipper attacks on the Ortega River, and the locals would brag about which French or English pirate they were descended from.
The Great Black Way would have curio shops and little plastic bubbles with glitter in them swirling round Duke Ellington and Billy Holiday performing at the Ritz, and Klutho's Balustrade would be lit at night so that lovers could walk past the moonlit canal along Hogan's Creek.
There would be bronze statues of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Bill Pickett (the famous black cowboy from Norman Studios in Arlington), Tom Mix and Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy) on the Riverwalk instead of the goofy jogger?
There would be a big Barbeque festival on Main Street every year and people would come from miles around to check out a hundred million recipes for ribs and collard greens.
It would create an interesting and colorful course that teaches our history and the cities issues and require that it be taught to all 7th graders.
The architecture wouldn’t have to be studied from old postcards and books with crossed out black and white photos with the word "demolished" stamped across them.
The urban population would have increased faster adding to the corporate scrapers due to the less restrictive city policy and would make Jacksonville the premier city in Florida if not the southeast.
The sports venues would have been built into the urban fabric allowing neighboring establishments to feed off of the activity.
We would have an iconic courthouse and a bustling government district.
We would have a multi-use convention center producing activity 24-7.
The surrounding neighborhoods would all be connected to the core via a comprehensive network of commuter, light rail or skyway lines.
Visitors to the city would have a multitude of way finding signs leading to attractions, parking, and districts.
Tourist visiting the area wouldn't leave town without making a trip over to the energetic and cultural diverse Jacksonville Farmer's Market District, which connects downtown with historic Durkeeville.
There would be a permanent exhibit of Joe La Rose's shoes at the City hall or perhaps the LaVilla School of the Arts and students would host John Fluevog competitions for shoe design every year.
Downtown would be full of Paparazzi following the exploits of Jacksonville's unbelievably accomplished Spoken Word Royalty.
Al Letson, Liz Straight, David Pugh Allan Justiss, Jon Reich, Valerie Anthony, Christina Wagner, Lee Harvey, and Iain Mairs would be household names. The Mayor would know them all, and they would be able to make a living with speaking engagements.
But we don't have those things.
They are too 'low class', too 'black' and too 'southern'.
Instead we have consultants telling us how to appear more like Indianapolis or Louisville.
If we wanted to be Indianapolis or some other place...
But we don't have a "Jacksonville".
stephendare
October 22, 2008, 01:39:37 PMThere would also be a tribute to A Phillip Randolph and a connection to the Pullman company.
Ocklawaha
October 22, 2008, 02:47:46 PMCorrection if I may friend Stephendare.
There would also be a Civil Rights Museum, a tribute to A. Phillip Randolph, tied to a Pullman themed railroad museum which leads to the Porters and the RED CAPS, which directs our visitors on to watch our new RED CAPS play ball in the Baseball Gounds of Jacksonville, "BIRTHPLACE OF THE NEGRO LEAGUES".
Oh and our Huguenot arch would span a freeway and not unlike Welthauptstadt Germania, it would be an arch more than twice the size of the Arc de Triomphe
OCKLAWAHA
stephendare
November 05, 2008, 10:03:06 AMthanks ock!
globatron
December 25, 2008, 09:03:48 AMGreat work Stephen. This was a pleasure to read. The commentary off this article alone is award winning.
I'm amazed by how much back and forth this site generates. What about the arts in Jacksonville? What would they be if you had your druthers? I'd love to hear that vision. You painted a great picture from an overall cultural perspective, but I didn't see any mention of contemporary art and where it would be if we had good leadership. I have my own vision, but I'd love to hear yours. Happy Holidays by the way.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 09:10:53 AMOh also,
You might find this interesting for the Southern Rock museum.
http://www.globatron.org/uncategorized/update-on-sam-durants-proposal
A very famous artist that teaches for CAL Arts. He put together a proposal
for a project at Friendship park.
If we could get this installed it would be a great starting point for starting that type of
pride I think we need to develop. I have his email and was supposed to get back to him
after finals were over last semester but didn't follow up.
BridgeTroll
December 25, 2008, 09:36:16 AMWelcome globatron! Great website from what I had a chance to see. I will explore more later...
ProjectMaximus
December 25, 2008, 01:16:27 PMwelcome to the site, globatron. I took a look at your link and would be very interested to hear his back story.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 01:32:30 PMThank you so much. really appreciate the kind welcome.
Here's the project summary that Sam sent me.
Sam Durant
Proposal for Monument in Friendship Park, Jacksonville, FLA.
2000
This project consists of a theoretical proposal for a monument to Southern Rock in Friendship Park in Jacksonville Florida. The park was the site of Sunday afternoon jam sessions in the late sixties in which members of the Allman Brothers Band and Lynyrd Skynyrd participated. Other young musicians (who went on to form bands like Blackfoot, .38 Special, Grinderswitch and Wet Willie) would watch the jam sessions and sometimes participate. Arguably this park was the birthplace of Southern Rock.
My idea with the Proposal for Monument in Friendship Park, Jacksonville, Fla. was to have a place for people to play music in the Park. I built a country shack back porch and a rock garden with fiberglass rocks and trash cans. The porch has rocking chairs, a large collection of Southern Rock records and two record players (which play both forwards and backwards). The fiberglass rocks and trash can in the garden have loudspeakers in them, which connect to the record players. As you play the records on the porch the sound gets mixed out in the garden. The rock formations in the garden are based on the pattern of the Ryoanji Temple Garden in a “figure eight” or infinity pattern. This idea of no beginning or end is echoed symbolically as you play the music both backward and forward.
During the research for this project I began to see some connections to the work of Isamu Noguchi. I am very interested in his gardens and parks. Friendship Park looked like a site for a Noguchi park. It is an urban plaza; more concrete than grass and trees. It reminded me of Noguchi’s park here in Little Tokyo at the Japanese Cultural Center. The Cultural Center also has a traditional Japanese garden adjacent to Noguchi’s plaza. In his writings Noguchi referred to the rocks in a traditional garden as being protuberances and that they connected below the surface to the primordial mass. I found this idea very interesting as I imagined all the elements in my project to be connected by the music; porch to rocks to trash cans.
I am also very interested in his stage sets for Martha Graham’s dance performances, in particular her “Appalachian Spring”. Aaron Copeland’s score is an emphatically American and particularly Southern work. It is a hybrid, mixing American vernacular music into the European Symphonic form. This seemed to be a parallel to Southern Rock (itself a hybrid) with its mixing Appalachian and country music with blues and rock and roll. Noguchi’s sets for Graham’s dance included an abstracted shack and porch and a stylized rocking chair among other elements. These became a basis for my porch and specially made rocking chairs. I also liked the idea that the Proposal was itself a kind of set with a stage inside of it. If the Proposal were ever to actually be built in Friendship Park the porch would serve as a stage on which people could jam with the sound being amplified throughout the park from the loudspeakers inside the rocks and trash cans.
Sam Durant
.....................
He was into talking about possibly a permanent install of the project. I'm thinking it would be a perfect installation to start some of the ideas / concepts Stephen began to outline. I'm betting with an internationally known artist interested the city might take interest. Possibly? Who knows. I didn't get back to Sam but if we could get more folks interested and begin to rally around the project I bet he'd be more interested in investing his own time in it as I'm sure he is very busy (as are we all).
Thanks again for the welcome.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 01:38:54 PMnevermind. sorry. that project description was on the original post.
stephendare
December 25, 2008, 01:41:21 PMWell what do we really need in order to get started with such a thing? Globatron, weve started a thing or two in this town already, lets take this on?
BTW. thanks for the kind words, and welcome to the site at last!
stephendare
December 25, 2008, 01:50:45 PMMemphis Wood would have a fabric and textile academy named after her, and there would be a gallery of her and Charlie Brown's works and effects in the downtown sponsored by all of our local learning institutions.
Marilyn Taylor would be a celebrity, Kate Kaufman would teach ceramics when the mood hit her, and Tim Bullard would have an entire course of his patented Ceramics glazes printed and in production supplying the whole world.
Lee Harvey would be a mainline opener at the JMOCA, Jennifer Johnson would be invited to (and accept invitations for) art parties thrown by Brenda Starr Walker.
Valery Anthony, Al Letson, David Pugh, and Ian Mairs would see their plays produced and written about by the local media.
Michael Emerson, Aaron Staten, and Connie Fletcher would be given keys to the city and Caitlyn Parrish would drink for free in any private club in town.
Jimmy Pines would have a skateboard franchise, Ryan Rummell would be teaching art, and Nurse would be a rich man from his successful pop art that would be pushed by every advertising agency in town.
Tim Hamlet would be the head of a powerful JCVA, and there would be an academy of contemporary art paid for by Preston Haskell at the Museum.
stephendare
December 25, 2008, 02:00:24 PMhttp://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/120104/new_17305512.shtml
CITY SOJOURN: Innovative art teachers draw laurels
By TONYAA WEATHERSBEE
Times-Union columnist
Memphis Wood had a knack for seeing the beauty in things that would otherwise be cast off as by-products.
The longtime Jacksonville artist and educator, who died in Atlanta 15 years ago at age 87, taught art in Duval County from 1929 until 1962. There was little money for art then, so she found herself digging through trash heaps for teaching materials like bottle caps, corks, wires and scrap fabrics -- things that could be shaped into art and, in turn, shape her students' ideas about possibilities.
"We had 25 cents a term [per student] for art supplies," Wood told the Times-Union in 1985. "I used to walk down to a junkyard near the school and find discarded lumber. Some of it was cut in beautiful shapes. Oh the things we made out of that were lovely!"
When it comes to teaching art these days, educators are facing much of the challenge that Wood faced back in the day.
That's why the Jacksonville Museum of Modern Art has come up with something it hopes will inspire more area teachers to meet that challenge by finding their inner Memphis Wood. It is introducing its Memphis Wood Excellence in Teaching Award.
The $1,000 award, which will be offered through the museum's Memphis Wood Society, recognizes a teacher who finds innovative ways to weave visual arts into the curriculum. Classroom and art teachers in kindergarten through grade 12 in Baker, Duval, Nassau, Clay and St. Johns counties are eligible to apply.
The nomination deadline is Feb. 15. For applications, go to www.jmoma.org, or call the museum at 366-6911 extension 204.
"In any profession, there's always some kind of recognition for people who do a good job, and art teachers feel very under-recognized," said Allison Graff, director of education at the museum. "Memphis Wood was an art teacher, and she was a member of our board during her lifetime ... so it's only fitting that this type of award would be made in her honor."
With teachers having to spend much of their time teaching skills for the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, this award is being offered at a crucial time for arts education.
Graff said the museum has high hopes for what the Memphis Wood award might do to inspire art in education.
"It won't only encourage the teachers who are good at their jobs, but will encourage other teachers to do more with art and to make more of what they do public," Graff said. "Teachers are so pressured to teach to the FCAT, and it is very limiting. This will encourage them to reach outside the box."
Maybe the award will inspire more teachers to work around those limitations by treating them as another artistic challenge. Like Memphis Wood did.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 05:30:16 PMNice vision Stephen. I'm honestly not aware of many of the artists that you speak of. I'd be interested in doing interviews with them. Would you? How would I pursue an interview with them?
Also, how could we pursue the Friendship Park installation? Does anyone know the appropriate team to get together to pursue such an endeavor?
Glad to be involved in such a dialogue. Amazing to see it happening.
stephendare
December 25, 2008, 06:57:16 PMwell memphis wood is dead, as is charlie brown.
Marilyn Taylor is still quite alive and kicking, and can be found through the Jacksonville Coalition of Visual Arts, Kate Kaufman is at the Beach as is Tim Bullard.
Lee Harvey is fairly elusive. In fact the interview he gave you was the last local one he will probably do.
Jennifer Johnson's amazing photography is available at J. Johnson's gallery at the beach.
I think Ian Rannes is in touch with Jimmy Pines, Nurse can be found through the kids at Burro Bags, and Tim Hamlet is in Riverside. Ryan Rummell owns TSI.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 08:17:20 PMWell good
What about the project? Do you feel it's wroth pursuing? I mean I think everyone involved in the arts in town could pick five-ten artists we think should be involved in the Who's Who of Jacksonville art, and get keys to the city, etc, but where to start? I myself am not too sure why you continually speak of Lea Harvey so fondly. I know more than a handful of artist locally who feel anytime he's around he sort of spoils the scene. I mean we all have our friend and buddys, especially in the arts.
Lee Harvey has called me names and threatened me physically all through a thread on Globatron all of which have made me question his sanity. Of which I often don't do as I myself was in a military mental ward for a nice two week stay for depression. The best two weeks of my life. I definitely think your opinion of him is quite biased as nearly everyone I speak to thinks completely opposite. I'm confused as I really respect your opinion on nearly everything else.
The Friendship Park project is one that's already popularly exhibited by an artist that is more well known internationally than any local Who's Who. We might need to tap artist outside of Jacksonville for anyone to take us serious for a monumental installation.
stephendare
December 25, 2008, 08:59:51 PMlol. Thats Lee.
Even if he didnt enjoy the drama, and stirring the pot. I think he just likes taking the piss out of you for using multiple screen names on the site. I don't know, coz I havent tuned on it, but even if he thought you needed a country ass whoopin
No such thing as bad press.
Speaking of which, I was blown away by your brain tumor surgery video.. What an interesting video you posted. Its brilliant. (And, I certainly hope your chances are better long term than Lee's. He has a daughter as well you know.) Its nor for the squeamish, but its memorable and I cant wait to see the project that we discussed last night on Christmas Eve.
I guess its about the Art, not the personalities, Byron. Lee and I hated each other more than most for years, but that didnt influence my opinion on his work then. In any case Im sure that all art opinion is biased. How else could it be anything but? Thanks for asking for mine! Ive learned over the years that the 'scenes' come and go, but the art remains, and thats what I try to pay attention to.
But surely we can discuss art without trying to tear someone down, right?
You should make a list of the artists that you think have made a significant contribution!
Mine is only based on artists who have already moved their art forward in a way that is also defined by or defines the things that are Jacksonville.
I totally should have included Ronnie Land on my list. Let me do so now.
"Ronnie Land would have a huge textiling business creating his wacky wonderful art en masse for shops around the world through a seed capital grant from our Cultural Council.
Ryan Coleman would have been commissioned to create public murals throughout the decaying industrial areas.
Tom Hager would be the official photographer of the City of Jacksonville and would be commissioned to do the counties photography.
Suzanne Pickett would have an important gallery on Ashley Street, and it would be powerful enough to launch the career of Overstreet Ducasse nationally.
The kids from Burro Bags would have city incentives to make their business HUGE.
And of course, there would be a facility where conceptual art and crossmedia work could be explored by artists like Morrison Pierce, Mark Creegan and yourself, and you guys would have a yearly show that introduced new work that was covered intelligently in our local blogs and media.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 10:09:11 PMYes, opinions, personalities. I totally agree. We all have our favorites, etc. The work remains, I completely agree. And instead of talking about who I feel is in my top ten, I think you were on the right, on your last statement when you began talking about the infrastructure needed to pull any of this off.
I think the most needed element is a walkable gallery district. Having just come from the Wynwood Arts District in Miami just three weeks ago now I'm amazed by what they've done with a ghetto run down warehouse district with many a crack head making it the the home on a permanent basis.
Art Basel has woken up Miami to a degree I bet they would have never imagined eight years ago. The Wynwood Art district has turned run down dilapidated warehouses into high dollar rentable art spaces, with neighboring condos going up in towers right next door. Art is the center of this transformation.
The city could start this easily by allowing artists groups to maintain downtown buildings that are empty or in between leases. Allow them to have shows for Art Walk, etc. Just doing this one event would be noticeable withing a short time.
I have no issues with any local artists. I however, am not the one starting virtual fist fights. I am in no situation to fight anyone. I'm just glad to be alive as you pointed out. Thankful for every breath. Brain tumors are quite deadly Stephen. I've been given a short prognosis and will start on chemo within the month. None of the tumor was removable. Of course they tell you not to listen to the statistics. My issue is the tumor is in an inoperable area. So we have to keep our fingers crossed and wait for the miracles of modern medicine to progress. I've been given teen years on the high end. 2-5 on the average. As I stated earlier I'm very happy to be alive. I thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you last night, and I'm glad you think my Cancer is My Super Power project would be interesting. I'm very excited to begin volunteering at the Children's hospital. I need to look more into that and get involved asap.
I respect all of the artist you named and I definitely think some of them should be given more respect, more press, etc. My question now though after have gotten some press in town myself, is what does it do for you? Nothing for me so far.
I read this whole thread, and for the ones who think this is a great city to live in, and don't understand where Stephen is coming from with the lack of pride he speaks of, I seriously doubt you are trying to improve this city, or are involved in anything culturally speaking in Jax at all. If you were, you'd realize how little pride local artists have here.
globatron
December 25, 2008, 10:13:51 PMhttp://jaxcal.blip.tv/file/1595762/
Here's the surgery that Stephen mentioned. Please be advised it's not for everyone.
If you can't stomach Discovery Health, don't watch this.
enjoy.
Byron
globatron
December 27, 2008, 01:01:12 PMOh Stephen. One clarification. I've only used two screen names on Globatron. One for Globatron the alter ego character, and one for myself. It's an art project, and I would think Lee would respect that and understand it. Afterall, you think he's the best artist in town correct correct? Wonder why an art project would piss him off enough to call me baby hitler?
Here's is a description of the project:
http://byronking.com/portfolio/portfolio/globatron
Here is the questionable commentary from Lee:
http://www.globatron.org/featured/the-green-kids
How can you stand by someone like Lee so firmly when he conducts himself like this so often?
I've been nothing but nice to him in person, and done nothing to him to warrant such reactions. I actually
went to his art show at Fuel and documented it for him adding to his dismal web presence. Of which I even offered to design him a web site for free? And on top of that posted the interview that you did with him, even though he obviously didn't take it seriously.
http://www.globatron.org/photos?album=18&gallery=25
I would think he'd be thankful for someone documenting his work, instead, he has called me names numerous times and threatened me physically. It's really mind boggling.
A lot of us are going through hard times (health issues) but I don't think that gives anyone the right to be out right rude and hurtful to people, online or in person. I mean speaking your mind is one thing, but to say what he said in the thread above is out right unforgivable.
stephendare
December 27, 2008, 01:46:01 PMByron.
Come on. I don't have to justify my opinion to you based on who you have or have not gotten along with, or what your friends think either for that matter.
I love you Byron, And I pray for you and wish you well.
Lee is also an artist, which I would think you would understand. Especially in terms of the fact that Lees forte IS Controversy. Has been for years. And as I expressed to you on jaxcal, Two Bit Baby Hitler is Bank. You should totally commandeer the phrase and turn it into a Band Name or a project. Its hilarious, and Ive been called worse. "bisonfucker" is probably the best thing Ive ever been called on the open streets of Jacksonville. Ive laughed about it for years. So inspirationally debilitating.
Youd have to be an especially determined tough cookie to be in the frame of mind where such a diversion would even seem possible....Rugged around the edges so to speak. Donna Braden a 90s era Jacksonville Hipster called me that in front of my old Fusion Cafe. For years Ive been trying to turn that lemon into a lemonade sweet enough to match the laughter its given me over the years.
But this thread isabout Jacksonville, not some apparent issue between the two of you.
But I hope that you guys do work it out. It seems a shame that theres enough negativity that its spilling over into areas that no one really cares about it.
Peace to you Byron. The infighting and backstabbing in the art 'scene' is one of the reasons why it has such difficulty getting supporters or patrons. I look forward to you helping the rest of us bring an end to it. Its a contributing factor to the whole point of this essay.
We all have our detractors and character assassins. I still proudly display my Morrison Pierce canvasses despite the controversies---because of their beauty and meaning, and I still love Owen Holmes' ( a fellow poster on this board, btw) band, Black Kids, despite the opinion expressed on Jaxcal.com.
At some point no one really cares what old bones we gnaw on in our doghouses. Its about the art, and the ideas and the outcomes.
Im so excited that you are posting here! I look forward to seeing your commentary in the Arts Section! Feel free to cross post links!.
Btw. Not enough is written about Mark Creegan. I certainly hope that we can fix that.
Happy New Year.
globatron
December 27, 2008, 02:54:24 PMRoger that Stephen. I completely agree with you. You always seem to rise above and are a true example of how to conduct oneself through these threads. I completely respect your opinion and how you approach things from a lighthearted "turn the other cheek" perspective.
Mark Creegan has also been a great example of how to rise above via the commentary on globatron, and I need to let bygones by bygones but I hold onto things and don't forgive easily. Especially when I feel I've done nothing to deserve such treatment.
As far as Owen Holmes and the Black Kids, if you read the entire thread, I was opening the door for criticism of the band. Not personally attacking them.
You are developing some great content on here, and I'd be happy to do some cross posting from what we're doing over on globatron. I really think others should read this article myself. It's a real inspiration of the types of ideas and concepts that could change Jacksonville and turn it into the type of city we all are proud of and decide to stay in. I believe I'll post a shout out to this article asap.
stephendare
December 27, 2008, 03:43:35 PMThanks Byron!
Looking forward to telling more of the real Jacksonville story.
After all, part of the lack of pride in our heritage is the lack of storytellers.
The Great Fire is now a part of our shared common heritage, but when Wayne Wood wrote the book and published it, it had been totally forgotten.
If a tree falls in the forest without anyone to hear it, does it make a sound?
JaxNative68
January 15, 2009, 01:10:46 PMIf a historic building in downtown Jacksonville falls down to make way for new buildings pretending to be old ones, does it get noticed?
Doctor_K
January 15, 2009, 01:12:52 PM^ Only by us, the vociferous minority.
JaxNative68
January 15, 2009, 04:49:56 PMArchitecture for the times you live in is all I ask for.
You can't trade one for one on buildings and expect your city to grow. At the rate this city is going the downtown area will have the same number of buildings and a lot less history to show for its existence. Architecture is the true fabric of any city. You can't keep repeating the same pattern expect to have a city with any character.
stephendare
February 19, 2009, 04:51:59 PMA statue of Ray Charles would stand in the perfectly preserved and popular bar where he first played soul piano and blues in the South.
There would be another museum of Black Film commemorating the achievements of black filmmakers here in Jacksonville.
Peterbrookes, The Loop Pizza and the Chicken Coop would all have gigantic headquarters in the center of town that rivaled the marooned Cruise Ship of a Building that Preston Haskell's company erected to itself on Riverside Avenue. There would be standing lines for tours of Sally Industry.
Blaire Woolverton would have her own cable show and Jake Godbold would have a cookbook.
Ray Mason would have an Institute where international finance and Arabic trade principles were taught, studied and debated. People would know who Raymond Mason was, and have no fucking clue who Craig Van Horn was.
When the Jacksonville Film Festival opened every year, Josh Skierski and Chad Hendricks would be the Emcees and Rita Manyette would be the Gala Hostess.
Mandarin would have a trolley tour of the famous writers who lived there over the past century. And even white people would know that Zora Neal Hurston lived here.
People would know who Zora Neal Hurston was.
There would be tours of the Confederate monuments and rubbings over the gravestones at the Confederate Graveyard in the Old City Cemetery.
People would be patriotic about Maxwell House. It would have a string of successful cafes all over town.
Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at any given local sporting goods store.
Matt Carlucci would have been Mayor and John Peyton would be president of the Chamber of Commerce.
There would be a Maritime Museum on the riverfront celebrating the many nautical elements of Jacksonville's History.
Old Stanton would be a Music Conservatory which offered a scholarship in the name of the writer of "Lift every Voice and Sing" The River City Band would be housed there.
The Jewish Center and graveyard would have signs on the bridges and highways to point out the gigantic and culturing effect that Jewish people had on Jacksonville, an unexpectedly tolerant and welcoming home in a time and country that met them everywhere else with fear and loathing.
Brochures would direct people to the bohemian district in Five Points, the Gay Mecca at Park and King and the real cracker cooking in the nationally rated southern restaurants of the Northside.
Noel Freidline would be a rich man with a big Jazz Club that he owned somewhere on the Riverwalk.
Marabanong would be a famously discussed historical feature on the Jacksonville tour.
Someone would have said "Thanks" to John Currington for resurrecting San Marco.
Or Lex Hester.
There would be a monument and perhaps a college marking the Landing of Protestant French Huguenots, and you could buy well-researched books about their history here.
There would be reenactments of pirate clipper attacks on the Ortega River, and the locals would brag about which French or English pirate they were descended from.
The Great Black Way would have curio shops and little plastic bubbles with glitter in them swirling round Duke Ellington and Billy Holiday performing at the Ritz, and Klutho's Balustrade would be lit at night so that lovers could walk past the moonlit canal along Hogan's Creek.
There would be bronze statues of the Creature from the Black Lagoon, Bill Pickett (the famous black cowboy from Norman Studios in Arlington), Tom Mix and Oliver Hardy (of Laurel and Hardy) on the Riverwalk instead of the goofy jogger?
There would be a big Barbeque festival on Main Street every year and people would come from miles around to check out a hundred million recipes for ribs and collard greens.
It would create an interesting and colorful course that teaches our history and the cities issues and require that it be taught to all 7th graders.
The architecture wouldn’t have to be studied from old postcards and books with crossed out black and white photos with the word "demolished" stamped across them.
The urban population would have increased faster adding to the corporate scrapers due to the less restrictive city policy and would make Jacksonville the premier city in Florida if not the southeast.
The sports venues would have been built into the urban fabric allowing neighboring establishments to feed off of the activity.
We would have an iconic courthouse and a bustling government district.
We would have a multi-use convention center producing activity 24-7.
The surrounding neighborhoods would all be connected to the core via a comprehensive network of commuter, light rail or skyway lines.
Visitors to the city would have a multitude of way finding signs leading to attractions, parking, and districts.
Tourist visiting the area wouldn't leave town without making a trip over to the energetic and cultural diverse Jacksonville Farmer's Market District, which connects downtown with historic Durkeeville.
There would be a permanent exhibit of Joe La Rose's shoes at the City hall or perhaps the LaVilla School of the Arts and students would host John Fluevog competitions for shoe design every year.
Downtown would be full of Paparazzi following the exploits of Jacksonville's unbelievably accomplished Spoken Word Royalty.
Al Letson, Liz Straight, David Pugh Allan Justiss, Jon Reich, Valerie Anthony, Christina Wagner, Lee Harvey, and Iain Mairs would be household names. The Mayor would know them all, and they would be able to make a living with speaking engagements.
But we don't have those things.
They are too 'low class', too 'black' and too 'southern'.
Instead we have consultants telling us how to appear more like Indianapolis or Louisville.
If we wanted to be Indianapolis or some other place...
But we don't have a "Jacksonville".
add to this list, that there would be statues to the two little ladies that preserved the book collection of the 'black' library, and thereby saved a heritage.
That the colorful history of Napoleon Bonaparte Broward, a direct descendant of Napoleon who was both mayor of the city and Governor of Florida.
ProjectMaximus
February 19, 2009, 09:13:17 PMand maybe lynyrd skynyrd would be spelled correctly on guitar hero.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/new-guitar-hero-game-misspells-quot-lynyrd-skynyrd-quot-/1289712
buyamerican101
March 03, 2009, 08:33:18 AMWe will wake up and find we do not have a job any longer. Did you know that a local company is moving jobs to China? Biomet in Warsaw, IN and Biomet - Microfixation located in the Airport Industrial Park, 1520 Tradeport Drive Jacksonville is moving jobs to China. All Biomet companies are moving work we Americans make to China. The company sites labor costs as the reason. Will the quality of these products be compromised? Have you read lately of China’s quality problems? What about the toys with lead and tainted baby’s milk? They are letting good people go that even mention words about China. Now the company is being pressed to rapidly move their products there before new laws will regulate.
Deuce
July 14, 2009, 02:28:36 PMWow! I felt like I was in an episode of Sliders for a sec.
copperfiend
July 14, 2009, 02:48:59 PMThe one where the British won the war?
David
July 14, 2009, 03:21:52 PMNo, the one where the south won.
Or the one where the population of San Francisco was only 250,000 because of the old people "lottery"
copperfiend
July 14, 2009, 03:24:14 PMNot the one where the gate didn't squeak.
deathstar
July 15, 2009, 04:44:06 AMOne band that I feel deserves recognition here, who wasn't mentioned. Burn Season.
In their prime, they were selling out shows not only in Jacksonville, but in Gainesville, Orlando, Tallahassee, and even South Carolina. All of this WITHOUT a record contract. They recently reunited, with 3 original members and a newcomer, former Shinedown, current Society Red bassist Brad Stewart. The band are going to record another album for Bieler Bros. Records, which will be their Sophomore release.
FTU ran a story on the band this past Friday here: http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/music/2009-07-10/story/burn_season_reunites_plays_saturday_at_freebird_live. The band played their reunion show the next day, Saturday, at Freebird Live.
I listen to a variety of online radio shows, and hear Burn Season's single "Carry On" still played, 4 years later.
Deuce
July 15, 2009, 02:58:21 PMThe episode where Maggie Beckett was introduced.
Wacca Pilatka
July 17, 2009, 06:25:56 PM"Jacksonville Tars and the Negro League’s Jacksonville Redcap’s throwback jerseys, would be available at a"ny given local sporting goods store."
Are these sold anywhere in town at all? I have the CD "Entering Duval County" by the local artists Tal-Kin Trees, and one of the members is wearing a Red Caps jersey on the face of the CD. Not that that says anything about where he found it.
Wacca Pilatka
July 17, 2009, 07:23:54 PMOn the Maxwell House suggestion, I know it's been mentioned many times on here that MH ought to open a coffee house downtown, either at a central location like the Landing (or 11E?), or as part of its facility to better integrate the plant with downtown. I know I saw it mentioned in a T-U article several years ago too. Has anyone actually approached MH about this?
DeadGirlsDontDance
July 23, 2009, 12:42:52 AMGood article, Stephen.
Okay, I didn't read ALL of the comments, but I would like to point out that I have an intelligent, well-traveled friend from Europe who has lived here for over a decade. Like many, he is frustrated about how cool Jacksonville isn't, but he still chooses to live here. That should say something about this town.
No segue:
I am a Maxwell House patriot! Back in the old days, before emission regulations forced the papermills to stop vomiting so much filthy stench, the lovely smell of roasting coffee overpowered it and was the only thing that made breathing downtown bearable. I don't miss the papermill smell, but I think Maxwell House should be allowed to freely blow unfiltered coffee-scented steam as far and wide as possible.