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Historic Bostwick Building Demolition Meeting Tonight

After letting their property fall apart for decades, the owners of the historic Bostwick Building are urging the City Council to allow them to demolish the structure. For those interested in not seeing another vacant weed downtown lot, the City Council's Land Use and Zoning Committee will be having a public hearing on this topic tonight.

Published November 19, 2013 in Opinion      231 Comments    Open printer friendly version of this article Print Article


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Please be advised that the City Council Land Use and Zoning Committee will be hearing the two items relating to the Bostwick Building at their meeting this evening at 5:00 pm.  This first item will be Res 2012-657, which is the owners’ appeal of the Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission’s denial of their request for demolition permit.  The second item is Ord 2012-720, which is the Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission's (JHPC) recommendation that the Bostwick Building be granted local historic landmark status.  These items are first on the agenda.  If the owners’ appeal of the JHPC decision is approved by the LUZ, then a demolition permit will be granted.  

Those who desire to help preserve this structure are urged to write the members of the LUZ committee, speak in opposition of the owners’ appeal, and share this information with fellow historic preservation supporters.  

The members of the LUZ Committee and their email addresses are provided below:
 
Lori N. Boyer – Chair LBoyer@coj.net

Matt Schelllenberg - Vice Chair MattS@coj.net

William H. Bishop  WBishop@coj.net

Raymond E. Holt Holt@coj.net

Jim Love JimLove@coj.net

Robin Lumb RLumb@coj.net

R. Don Redman Redman@coj.net
 
The DVI Board approved a position statement on the protection of this building at its meeting in September 2012.  That position statement can be found at the following link:


http://downtownjacksonville.org/Libraries/PDF_Libraries/Bostwick_Building_final.sflb.ashx.  



ORIGINAL JANUARY 2013 ARTICLE

Historic buildings lend a rich texture to the fabric of Downtown and are integral to maintenance of a unique identity. In 1991, a historic building survey identified 115 buildings in the Downtown Jacksonville Northbank  Business Improvement that met the criteria for historic designation. By the time of a follow-up survey in 2005, that number had decreased 22% to 90. Some buildings were demolished outright, while others were allowed to deteriorate to the point of collapse. Since the 2005 survey, one-by-one, several other historic buildings have been lost.  In a number of instances, only vacant lots have replaced the demolished structures.    Of the remaining  88 historic structures, 25 (28%) have been designated as Local Historic Landmarks.


What's left of LaVilla provides us with a future visual of a demolished Bostwick Building site.

In early August 2012, the owners of the Guaranty Trust and Savings building, located at 101 E. Bay Street, submitted an application for demolition of this building. Also known as the Bostwick Building and the “Jaguar” Building, this building is significant for a number of reasons, most notably its prominent location at the entry to Downtown from the Main Street Bridge, the former location of Henry Klutho’s architectural practice and also as the first building permitted following the Great Fire in 1901. Vacant since the early 1980s, the  Bostwick building has deteriorated significantly over the years.  


The Bostwick Building

Preservation of historic buildings  Downtown makes economic  sense. In 2011, PlaceEconomics documented the economic impacts of preservation in their report to the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation. This study found that historic preservation results in more jobs than new construction, increased property values, increased tourism, fewer environmental impacts and increased quality of life.

In response to the owner's desire to turn one of the oldest buildings in downtown Jacksonville into history, local businessman Preston Haskell has offered to purchase the structure for $150,000.  Answering an email to the Florida Times-Union, Haskell stated, “I am absolutely committed to preserving and restoring the building. “I have no specific plans or tenants, but simply wish to see this building and its architecture preserved. It’s my little contribution to downtown development and historic preservation.”

However, Val Bostwick, the building's owner has rejected this offer because it's well below their $325,000 asking price. "That offer is just pennies on the dollar and is outside the realm of possibility. When you’re offering just pennies on the dollar, you’re not going to get it,” Bostwick told Times-Union reporters.

Currently, the owner favors spending $40,000 to eliminate the building and maintain ownership of the lot, which is valued at $76,500, according to recent city appraisals.


Canfield Lofts in Midtown Detroit is an example of a new structure within the confines of a historic building.  This is one of many preservation possibilities that are superior to vacant weed choked surface lot at a key downtown gateway intersection.

Now it is up to the City Council to determine whether this significant building will be preserved.  The second public hearing will be held before the Land Use and Zoning Committee on Tuesday, January 15th at 5:00 p.m.  Downtown Vision (DVI) will be testifying at both public hearings at City Council Chambers.   Metro Jacksonville urges the community to support the preservation of the Bostwick Building by either attending the public hearings if you are able to express support for Landmark protection of the Bostwick Building, or contacting members of City Council by email.  Contact information for the Land Use and Zoning Committee is provided below:
 
Lori N. Boyer – Chair: LBoyer@coj.net
Matt Schellenberg - Vice Chair: MattS@coj.net  
Doyle Carter: doylec@coj.net
Bill Gulliford: Gulliford@coj.net  
Warren A. Jones:  WAJones@coj.net
R. Don Redman:  Redman@coj.net
 
Contact information for the full City Council can be found at the following link: http://www.coj.net/city-council/city-council-members.aspx.

Editorial by Ennis Davis







231 Comments

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 07:43:55 AM
Good article.  The bottom line is, do we protect our historic structures or do we not?  The experts in the city have determined this is a building worth saving.  It is up to the city council to agree.

avonjax

January 15, 2013, 08:22:01 AM
If this building is allowed to come down......I have no words.
Maybe we should just raze every building pre 1970 and just cross our fingers and hope someday someone will build something on the weed infested, littered empty lot.
The City Council can show their true colors with this decision.

mbwright

January 15, 2013, 08:37:46 AM
It should have been placed under historic protection long ago.  I thought that is why we had a historic department within the city.  I'm not sure what is it called.  All of the historic buildings in Duval county should be protected, not just downtown, or just Springfield.  Much of the blight is caused by allowing these great buildings to be demolished, or demolished by neglect. 
If the property is only worth 76K, 150K is more than fair.  The owners are being unreasonable, and should have sold 10 years ago when the market was high, and the building in much better shape.
Waiting until the very last minute to try to save a building takes a great deal of effort.  Maybe this is one that could be mothballed.

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 08:47:33 AM
It should have been placed under historic protection long ago.  I thought that is why we had a historic department within the city.  I'm not sure what is it called.  All of the historic buildings in Duval county should be protected, not just downtown, or just Springfield.  Much of the blight is caused by allowing these great buildings to be demolished, or demolished by neglect. 
If the property is only worth 76K, 150K is more than fair.  The owners are being unreasonable, and should have sold 10 years ago when the market was high, and the building in much better shape.
Waiting until the very last minute to try to save a building takes a great deal of effort.  Maybe this is one that could be mothballed.

It is very frustrating, indeed!

FWIW, the historic planning department lead by Joel McEachin, is working very hard to save the Bostwick building.  They are the ones, on behalf of the Historic Planning Commission, who are pushing for landmark status.

urbanlibertarian

January 15, 2013, 08:50:50 AM
IMO the bottom line is...the bottom line.  Money.  I realize this building has great historical value but equating that value to how much should be spent to preserve it is very difficult.  I try to put myself in the shoes of the owners and think about it as if the restoration money was coming out of my pocket.  I know they have turned down offers from potential buyers but again it's hard for me to know what I would do in their place.

thelakelander

January 15, 2013, 09:00:19 AM
mbrwright, you have an interesting point.  Perhaps, there should be additional measures placed to preserve the urban core's remaining building fabric.  For example, should the rest of what's left of historic LaVilla, the historic heart of the Northbank and some neighborhoods like Brentwood and Durkeeville be designated as official historic districts?  I guess those are questions we can work on resolving after making sure the Bostwick isn't mowed down.

thelakelander

January 15, 2013, 09:06:00 AM
IMO the bottom line is...the bottom line.  Money.  I realize this building has great historical value but equating that value to how much should be spent to preserve it is very difficult.  I try to put myself in the shoes of the owners and think about it as if the restoration money was coming out of my pocket.  I know they have turned down offers from potential buyers but again it's hard for me to know what I would do in their place.

I'd say money is an important part of it but the core issue seems to be greed mixed with stubbornness, resulting from a maintenance/code enforcement situation that should have been addressed, one way or the other, decades ago.  I've also tried to put myself in the owner's shoes and at the end of the day, I'd take a $150,000 bail out as opposed to paying $40k to demolish and be left with a small plot of land worth half that.  If they can't afford to refurbish it, they sure can't afford or will look to build something up from the ground.  The historical elements of that building are the most valuable thing on that  site and that's what they value less.

Captain Zissou

January 15, 2013, 10:03:26 AM
I think we should have a demolition fee in the core.  I would love for it to be $50,000, but anything that would make somebody think twice before knocking something down would be great. Why hasn't code enforcement been fining them out the wazoo for letting this property fall into such disrepair?

Coolyfett

January 15, 2013, 10:48:54 AM
mbrwright, you have an interesting point.  Perhaps, there should be additional measures placed to preserve the urban core's remaining building fabric.  For example, should the rest of what's left of historic LaVilla, the historic heart of the Northbank and some neighborhoods like Brentwood and Durkeeville be designated as official historic districts?  I guess those are questions we can work on resolving after making sure the Bostwick isn't mowed down.
Durkeeville YES...Brentwood No.

iloveionia

January 15, 2013, 10:52:31 AM
Excellent article Ennis.
The building needs to be preserved, period.
As mbwright said, the city should be mothballing. 
They should be stepping in an being proactive when dealing with derelict owners. 
Code has the funds to do so.
Unfortunate that there is a buyer who is denied the sale.
Ignorance and greed seem to be blinding the owners.
Preservation SOS sent an email to LUZ (addresses of council folks above) yesterday in support of landmark status and preserving the structure. 

duvaldude08

January 15, 2013, 10:57:28 AM
I think we should have a demolition fee in the core.  I would love for it to be $50,000, but anything that would make somebody think twice before knocking something down would be great. Why hasn't code enforcement been fining them out the wazoo for letting this property fall into such disrepair?

This is the part I keep thinking about. Why do property owners sit and let the buildings fall into despair instead fixing them as needed? Im sure they wont let their home fall into despair. Why own a building and you can afford the up keep?

thelakelander

January 15, 2013, 11:06:07 AM
mbrwright, you have an interesting point.  Perhaps, there should be additional measures placed to preserve the urban core's remaining building fabric.  For example, should the rest of what's left of historic LaVilla, the historic heart of the Northbank and some neighborhoods like Brentwood and Durkeeville be designated as official historic districts?  I guess those are questions we can work on resolving after making sure the Bostwick isn't mowed down.
Durkeeville YES...Brentwood No.

Why?  Brentwood has a great collection of historic architecture and is just as significant to the city's history as the more popular neighborhoods.

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 12:36:06 PM
Brentwood is awesome.  Great structures tucked in and around the area. 

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 12:59:31 PM
We will be liveblogging the meeting tonight, and the effort could definitely use as many people from the public showing up in support of preservation as possible.

riverside planner

January 15, 2013, 01:28:04 PM
I just got word that the Bostwick's have requested deferral of tonight's agenda items.  It will be up to the LUZ to grant this deferral, but there is a strong chance that any action will be deferred until the next meeting (February 5th).  There will still be a public hearing at tonight's meeting regardless of whether action is taken.

urbaknight

January 15, 2013, 01:42:16 PM
Boyer and Jones are the only decent ones that I know of in the group. Don't know enough about Carter. But Redman, Gulliford and Shellenberg are some of our most anti urban council members we have! Not very optimistic about this I'm afraid.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 01:49:26 PM
Update:

I just spoke with Lori's council aide, and he said that the Bostwicks have indeed requested a deferral, which Lori is going to grant.  However, as Riverside Planner pointed out, the public hearing on the issue is still on track.

Im hoping to hear from Councilwoman Boyer before the meeting, which seems a little unlikely given the hustle and bustle before a meeting by a committee chair.

interestingly, one of the Bostwick family members weighed in on our facebook page:

Barbara Bostwick Edwards It would be a sad day to see this demolished. While I understand the financial burdens of restoration, I hope my cousins will accept the offer.

mbwright

January 15, 2013, 01:51:37 PM
I am glad to see that the Historic department is working on issues like this.  I don't think that was how it has been historically. 
One concern I have is how Historic Districts are defined, and enforced.  Springfield is Historic, but demos, until recently were encouraged and fast tracked, often without any comment, or consideration of the whole neighborhood.  It's great that Preservation SOS and others are working to change this.  There is a fine line between keeping a neighborhood in check, and trampling property rights.  I do feel that if you do have a historic property, you really have an obligation to maintain it, and not butcher it.  Restoration and integrity are key.  I grew up in a historic neighborhood, but it seems each is defined differently, and each designation (Historic, Landmark, etc) means different things, often significant.  Just because it is 'historic' does not mean demo is not legal.  I think there needs to be some sort of standard, at least within a city, or area.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 02:05:38 PM
via email from The City: 

Quote
FYI…We just got word the LUZ items on the building will be deferred this evening.  Joel (McEachin) said they’d open it for comment but that is it.  It will be rescheduled to February 5th.

JFman00

January 15, 2013, 02:30:22 PM
I'm against designating historic districts wholesale as it seems to create fantasylands where not only buildings can't be changed, the neighborhood perceived historical character can't change either. I'll never understand the appeal or rationale behind forcing new construction (that doesn't involve demolition) having to fit some predetermined architectural style. Form-based zoning is one thing, but to me a 2005 building designed to look like it's from 1925 is just as artificial and unappealing whether it's built in a historic district or exurb.

BIG CHEESE 723

January 15, 2013, 02:45:08 PM
I uderstand that the owners feel they have an albatross around their neck.  Howevr, they have an offerTake the damn money and run.
Let the building have new llife. 

BackinJax05

January 15, 2013, 02:57:35 PM
^^ Yes. $150,000 might be "pennies on the dollar", however they'll be done with the building and it will be Preston Haskell's headache.

Then, maybe, this building from the past can have a future.

Dog Walker

January 15, 2013, 03:57:31 PM
Let's see.  They want $350,000 for the building and land.  The land is appraised at less than $80,000.....and they want to tear the building down?  Kinked thinking!

Sell the building to Haskell, people!

Ocklawaha

January 15, 2013, 04:11:08 PM
Oh damn! Has I-10 East weighed in on this? Which way will it go?  MJ is trashing Jacksonville because some of it's readers want to save a very historic building? OR? MJ is trashing Jacksonville because some of it's readers wish to leave the fate of the building to the owners?

BackinJax05

January 15, 2013, 04:14:18 PM
^^ ROTFLMAO!!  :D

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 04:26:31 PM
If they want to hear from the public, I say, let's give them the opportunity.

tufsu1

January 15, 2013, 04:49:30 PM
The land is appraised at less than $80,000

well that's a steal given the prominent corner the property is on

thelakelander

January 15, 2013, 05:02:26 PM
Not once you realize how small the lot size is and all the challenges you must overcome to put a brand new building on it. The Bostwicks should take Haskell's money and run.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:12:02 PM
OK here at the meeting.

In attendance in the audience:
Terry Lorrince,
Gloria DeVal of SOS Springfield.
Kay Ehas,
myself,
Paul Harden for some reason,

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:13:20 PM
Also Jennifer Hewitt Apperson from DVI.
Carmen Godwin just showed up from RAP

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:16:10 PM
The inimitable Chris Flagg is also with us in the audience.

Lori Boyer, Doyle Carter, Matt Schellenberg, Don Redman are seated.  No sign of Denise Lee or Warren Jones.

Representing staff, Joel McEachinfrom Historic Preservatioin, and Dylan Reingold from the Office of General Counsel are here.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:19:46 PM
Schellenberg and Guilliford both disclosed that they have discussed the issue with both Preston Haskell and Mr. Bostwick about the preservation of the building.

Lori Boyer has also visited the property, talked with Preston Haskell and Bostwick, also Jim Bailey and Oliver Barakat.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:21:10 PM
Terry Lorrince is the first speaker.

She is for the preservation of the building on behalf of Downtown Vision.

The Bostwicks are all here as well, in the front row.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:23:11 PM
Kay Ehas will be the next speaker. But in the meantime, Terry is extolling the virtues of the Historic Designation and the economic impact of historic structures downtown.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:24:36 PM
Terry Lorrince quoted another publication about the importance of historic structures on corner lots.

Kay Ehas will not be speaking, Chris Flagg is up next and then me.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:33:08 PM
Carmen Godwin up next.

She is beseeching the city to consider the impact to the cultural history of the historic building stock.

She is also comparing the success of the Riverside Avondale Preservation area as a guide for the additional value that is added by historic preservation.

Carmen can be such a great speaker.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:35:11 PM
Gloria is up next on behalf of CPAC.  Of course they are for the preservation of the building.

She is followed by Joe Markusic speaking on behalf of Preservation SOS.

Joe is also in support of preservation.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:37:15 PM
Mr. Bostwick is up.  He is a gentleman in his sixties or seventies who speak with a slight southern lisp.

He is arguing that the building does not meet the criteria to make it an Historic Landmark.

Also that the city is creating a financial hardship on the owners.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:39:03 PM
Brian Blackburn, a bit of a conservative ass attorney from the Riverside area is speaking on behalf of the Bostwick Family to destroy the building.

He is detailing the history of the demolition by neglect in vivid detail however.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:43:03 PM
Karl Bostwick is up speaking.

he addresses Terry Lorrince that he supports the downtown mission.

He also supports springfield and riverside preservation, apparently.

He also supports personal property rights.

He is a fairly good looking younger chap with an impeccable sense of style.  He seems uncomfortable speaking in front of the crowd, and his voice is breaking a little.  He would like to suggest that the only way that he sees of saving the building would include a private/public 'partnership' to restore the building.

He says that they are open to selling the property, and finishes up.

bornnative

January 15, 2013, 05:44:18 PM
The owners keep saying that saving the building is not economically feasible.

I would argue that it depends entirely on your personal economics.  Read: Haskell.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:45:39 PM
David Garber is up.  He is friends with Karl Bostwick and is an advocate of demolishing the building.

"If all of these people are soooo concerned about this building, why don't they bear the burden of purchasing the building. They should reach in their back pocket, pull out their checkbook, and pay the price"

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:47:41 PM
Jessie Ray Norton

"mustve been a hell of building at one time, from all the fuss thats made about it."

"What this city needs is jobs.  Demolishing the building would create jobs."

I think that if we pass the resolution to destroy this building, think about the jobs that its going to create"

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:48:54 PM
Jo Anne Tredinnick is here on behalf of SPAR.

In a most welcome way, SPAR is for the preservation of the building and opposes the demolition.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:49:46 PM
Preston Haskell just showed up, apparently he is going to speak.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:51:53 PM
Preston is up.  Stately, elegant, genteel.

He has inspected the building with the chief engineer of the Haskel Corporation, he is detailing exactly how he would restore and support the building 'If I had the opportunity to rescue the building".

You can tell that every single member of the Committee is paying attention.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:53:19 PM
Jennifer Hewitt Apperson is up for DVI.  She is speaking about the job creation benefits of Historic Preservation.  She has a copy of a study conducted in 2011 that proves that point.

If_I_Loved_you

January 15, 2013, 05:53:32 PM
Preston is up.  Stately, elegant, genteel.

He has inspected the building with the chief engineer of the Haskel Corporation, he is detailing exactly how he would restore and support the building 'If I had the opportunity to rescue the building".

You can tell that every single member of the Committee is paying attention.
He forgot to say his address?

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 05:55:58 PM
She also is correcting the misapprehension that the building does not meet the criteria for historic designation.

She is also pointing out that the City already posesses the power by ordinance to designate historic status without the participation of the landowner.

She finishes powerfully, intelligently and succinctly.

Josh

January 15, 2013, 05:59:52 PM
Jessie Ray Norton

"mustve been a hell of building at one time, from all the fuss thats made about it."

"What this city needs is jobs.  Demolishing the building would create jobs."

I think that if we pass the resolution to destroy this building, think about the jobs that its going to create"


Wow. Just wow. I'd be too embarrassed to answer this truthfully.

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 06:07:24 PM
The public hearing is over, and we are all going to reconvene on the fifth of february.

Lots of chatter in the antechamber, Preston took Karl and Val down a hallway to renew the offer.

He came back and told a crowd of Kay, Val, Joanne and Jennifer that he felt Karl was willing to explore his offer in good faith.

blfair

January 15, 2013, 06:11:57 PM
Jessie Ray Norton

"mustve been a hell of building at one time, from all the fuss thats made about it."

"What this city needs is jobs.  Demolishing the building would create jobs."

I think that if we pass the resolution to destroy this building, think about the jobs that its going to create"


Wow. Just wow. I'd be too embarrassed to answer this truthfully.

Are you suggesting that demolishing buildings isn't a good long term jobs program?!

dougskiles

January 15, 2013, 06:23:29 PM
This must be in some kind of Tea Party manual for public comments (fill in the blanks):

Jessie Ray Norton

"What this city needs is jobs.  ________________ would create jobs."

I think that if we pass the resolution to _________________, think about the jobs that its going to create"

Surely they can be a little more creative?

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 06:30:00 PM
FWIW:  Lori Boyer actually told Stephen to behave himself. 

Luckily for Stephen, the lawyer and friends unwittingly supported his assertion that the city was being "held hostage".

Stephen's words were strong -- he pointed to a history of neglect of our historic structures by owners and by the city.  Schellenburg took offense at the "held hostage" comment, but what else is it? 

Of course, Stephen just smiled.

BIG CHEESE 723

January 15, 2013, 06:31:20 PM
Do we need a "reprieve from the Governor"?    Sell the damn building!  Give others the chance to make it a viable place again 

BIG CHEESE 723

January 15, 2013, 06:34:52 PM
Did sh also give him a slap on the wrist???  Shame Stephen, shame!  Only the coucil is allowed to show their ass!  LOL
Stephen, speak up/speak out!  In the words of others...This Place Matters. 










that was meant as a hats off to you, She Clown!

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 06:38:33 PM
much love Big Cheese!

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 06:42:08 PM
Favorite line from the evening (one of the Bostwick supporters) "What's  all the fuss?"

thelakelander

January 15, 2013, 06:47:07 PM
The owners keep saying that saving the building is not economically feasible.

I would argue that it depends entirely on your personal economics.  Read: Haskell.

What's not economically feasible about getting $150k in cash to disappear?

stephendare

January 15, 2013, 06:51:22 PM
FWIW:  Lori Boyer actually told Stephen to behave himself. 

Luckily for Stephen, the lawyer and friends unwittingly supported his assertion that the city was being "held hostage".

Stephen's words were strong -- he pointed to a history of neglect of our historic structures by owners and by the city.  Schellenburg took offense at the "held hostage" comment, but what else is it? 

Of course, Stephen just smiled.

lol.

She did!  But like a few others, she has so much of my respect and genuine affection that I certainly didnt mind the chide.  Lori Boyer has the intelligence and enough taste to be as informal as she likes with me.

After the meeting I realized that I have spent time with Karl Carter Bostwick.  He's a genuinely likable fellow, I just think that he is taking a little cynical advice on how to proceed forward on the sale of this property.

To me the standout speakers tonight were Jennifer Hewitt Apperson, Preston Haskell and Carmen Godwin on the historic preservation side, and both Carl and Val Bostwick on the demolition side.

BIG CHEESE 723

January 15, 2013, 08:58:48 PM
Okay, back to the admonishment by Lori Boyer.
Please don't hate me, but I just couldn't help myself:
       HOW DARE YOU, STEPHEN!!!   lol
and... thanks She Clown.  I will keep in touch

sheclown

January 15, 2013, 09:08:22 PM
I loved hearing Preston Haskell explain, in great detail, how he would fix up the building. 

Debbie Thompson

January 15, 2013, 10:34:50 PM
I arrived from work just after the last speaker and missed it all, darn it. Sounds like all the points in favor of preservation were covered.

Ocklawaha

January 15, 2013, 11:09:25 PM
Did sh also give him a slap on the wrist???  Shame Stephen, shame!  Only the coucil is allowed to show their ass!  LOL
Stephen, speak up/speak out!  In the words of others...This Place Matters.


OMG don't encourage him, he'll show up as Aunt Jemima!  ;)








sheclown

January 16, 2013, 06:51:39 AM
I arrived from work just after the last speaker and missed it all, darn it. Sounds like all the points in favor of preservation were covered.

Yes!!!  But you showed up just the same -- breathless as you ran from work.  I'm sure February's meeting will run longer.

BIG CHEESE 723

January 18, 2013, 10:49:03 AM
Thanks for the live feed.  It was informative.  I also liked the dscriptions of the participants.  It added a bit of color to them.  Humanized them.  Up 'til now they were simply  names.  Stephen, good job!

Bill Hoff

January 18, 2013, 12:13:45 PM
It'll still be important to have a lot of people there on Feb 5th. This is precedent setting, and a large presence will be needed - if an arrangement isn't agreed upon prior to.

BIG CHEESE 723

January 18, 2013, 02:24:50 PM
I will do my best to be there!!

GatorNation

January 18, 2013, 03:35:44 PM
FWIW:  Lori Boyer actually told Stephen to behave himself. 

Luckily for Stephen, the lawyer and friends unwittingly supported his assertion that the city was being "held hostage".

Stephen's words were strong -- he pointed to a history of neglect of our historic structures by owners and by the city.  Schellenburg took offense at the "held hostage" comment, but what else is it? 

Of course, Stephen just smiled.

lol.

She did!  But like a few others, she has so much of my respect and genuine affection that I certainly didnt mind the chide.  Lori Boyer has the intelligence and enough taste to be as informal as she likes with me.

After the meeting I realized that I have spent time with Karl Carter Bostwick.  He's a genuinely likable fellow, I just think that he is taking a little cynical advice on how to proceed forward on the sale of this property.

To me the standout speakers tonight were Jennifer Hewitt Apperson, Preston Haskell and Carmen Godwin on the historic preservation side, and both Carl and Val Bostwick on the demolition side.

Stephen -- I'm a little confused . . . what exactly are the Bostwick's appealing?  Are they saying that the building should not be a historical landmark, or that they should be able to demo the building, or both? 

Debbie Thompson

January 18, 2013, 06:35:48 PM
Both. They don't want landmark status because that adds a layer of protection. And thanks to short sighted COJ daily fines, they want to demolish. Silly. Sell it to Preston Haskell.

sheclown

February 02, 2013, 05:07:42 PM
February 5th is Tuesday.  LUZ should take action.

sheclown

February 05, 2013, 08:42:16 AM
The hearing for the Bostwick Building has been deferred to Feb. 20th.

BIG CHEESE 723

February 05, 2013, 02:05:40 PM
Thanks for letting everyone know.  I was planning to attend.  What I do need to find out is where is a safe place to park?  That is my only obstacle.  I am a a bit unsure of being down there after dark.

downtownjag

February 05, 2013, 02:43:47 PM
Both. They don't want landmark status because that adds a layer of protection. And thanks to short sighted COJ daily fines, they want to demolish. Silly. Sell it to Preston Haskell.

The City commonly fines DT buildings when they want action; most of the time they agree to waive most or all in conjunction with a sale that includes rehab.

BIG CHEESE 723

February 25, 2013, 08:44:59 PM
Crap!  I missed it?  Was thinking the postponed meeting was tomorrow.  ):  What happened?  Anything good happen?

sheclown

February 27, 2013, 07:18:39 AM
Bostwick before the LUZ has been deferred twice.  Apparently it will be heard next Tuesday night.

Noone

February 27, 2013, 07:55:19 AM
Political and Financial maneuvering.

Ben- JCCI, we need to kayak Downtown before 2025

Debbie Thompson

February 27, 2013, 10:08:47 AM
Hoping preservationists will lose track and miss the meeting.  Be there if you can and surprise them.  :-)

KenFSU

April 03, 2013, 12:36:01 PM
Any update on this?

sheclown

April 03, 2013, 04:55:57 PM
I believe it keeps getting deferred at the owner's request.

iloveionia

April 03, 2013, 07:58:33 PM
Until it becomes one of those "city emergencies" ?
Wondering if that offer to buy is still on the table?
Guess one can't force an owner to sell.

sheclown

April 15, 2013, 04:12:12 PM
Being heard tomorrow night

riverside planner

April 15, 2013, 04:15:01 PM
Thanks sheclown!  You beat me to it :)

sheclown

April 16, 2013, 08:45:48 AM
Not all can attend (especially at the last minute like this); however, all can email in support to LUZ for Bostwick. Please take a moment this morning to do so

"Lori Boyer" <LBoyer@coj.net>,"Matthew Schellenberg" <MattS@coj.net>, "Doyle Carter" <DoyleC@coj.net>,"William Gulliford" <Gulliford@coj.net>, "Warren Jones" <WAJones@coj.net>, "Denise Lee" <EDLee@coj.net>, "Don Redman" <Redman@coj.net>

riverside planner

April 16, 2013, 08:58:37 AM
Not all can attend (especially at the last minute like this); however, all can email in support to LUZ for Bostwick. Please take a moment this morning to do so

"Lori Boyer" <LBoyer@coj.net>,"Matthew Schellenberg" <MattS@coj.net>, "Doyle Carter" <DoyleC@coj.net>,"William Gulliford" <Gulliford@coj.net>, "Warren Jones" <WAJones@coj.net>, "Denise Lee" <EDLee@coj.net>, "Don Redman" <Redman@coj.net>

And be sure to focus on the issues at hand: building exceeds criteria for landmark status, owners have created a self-imposed hardship, demolition by neglect should not be rewarded with a demolition permit, Code Enforcement has been trying to work with the owners to bring the building into compliance since 2005.  "Substantial competent evidence" is going to be key.

bornnative

April 16, 2013, 10:18:27 AM
Not all can attend (especially at the last minute like this); however, all can email in support to LUZ for Bostwick. Please take a moment this morning to do so

"Lori Boyer" <LBoyer@coj.net>,"Matthew Schellenberg" <MattS@coj.net>, "Doyle Carter" <DoyleC@coj.net>,"William Gulliford" <Gulliford@coj.net>, "Warren Jones" <WAJones@coj.net>, "Denise Lee" <EDLee@coj.net>, "Don Redman" <Redman@coj.net>

And be sure to focus on the issues at hand: building exceeds criteria for landmark status, owners have created a self-imposed hardship, demolition by neglect should not be rewarded with a demolition permit, Code Enforcement has been trying to work with the owners to bring the building into compliance since 2005.  "Substantial competent evidence" is going to be key.

Even further than the above (+1 for all that), CM also have been giving credence to the argument that there remain legitimate offers on the table and competent qualified buyers remain interested.  From the LUZ & CC perspective, this needs to not just be a "preservationist vs. owner" argument, it is and needs to remain a commercial argument as well.  There are qualified buyers that are willing to engage with the Bostwicks to purchase the building and save/reuse it, and these potential buyers (at least two that I know of) are well aware of the costs and intricacies of doing so.

GatorNation

April 16, 2013, 12:05:39 PM
So the owners don't want the building designated as an historical landmark in 2013, but they touted it as "the most visible Historic Landmark Building" in the heart of Downtown Jacksonville" just 4 years ago??

I'd be happy to post a copy of the sales flyer from 2009, but I'm not quite smart enough to figure out how to upload images or attachments  :-[

thelakelander

April 16, 2013, 12:08:42 PM
send it to edavis@metrojacksonville.com and I'll upload it for you.

thelakelander

April 16, 2013, 12:36:39 PM

Cheshire Cat

April 16, 2013, 12:42:57 PM
It might be helpful to have copies of this flyer to give out to members of council at this afternoons meeting as to show proof that the building owners themselves consider the building to be "Historic".  It really does make an important statement as to changing rhetoric to meet changing agenda's regarding this structure.

Where has the city's preservation office come down on all of this?  Are they attending meetings?

Josh

April 16, 2013, 12:44:34 PM
Boom.

Also, the listing is still up on Coldwell's site :D

http://www.cbcworldwide.com/media/listing-fs/8/1/2/1416812_2.pdf

acme54321

April 16, 2013, 01:31:34 PM
Interesting, so when the building was expanded it must have narrowed the street there?

thelakelander

April 16, 2013, 01:33:31 PM
^No. One of the bays from the building next door was removed for the bank's expansion.

GatorNation

April 16, 2013, 01:44:42 PM
Some more historic photos . . .

GatorNation

April 16, 2013, 04:25:44 PM
And here's what it COULD be!!

sheclown

April 16, 2013, 04:26:47 PM
This is deferred again

urbaknight

April 17, 2013, 03:34:42 PM
Are they going to defer it for ever in hopes that it Will just go away?

stephendare

April 17, 2013, 03:42:52 PM
Are they going to defer it for ever in hopes that it Will just go away?

Maybe they will have a meeting with TUFSU, discuss how some buildings can't be saved because they are too far gone, wait till he reluctantly says that he agrees with the idea in principle, and then the minute he leaves call a press conference and announce that they have reached a deal with 'the opposition', and will be demolishing it via an emergency bill filed by Don Redman.

fsujax

April 26, 2013, 10:33:22 AM
Just saw asomething on facebook about the building being under contract? anybody know anything? The Bostwicks have agreed to sell to someone interested in restoring the building.

thelakelander

April 26, 2013, 10:50:11 AM
And here's what it COULD be!!

That looks familiar.  I know the guy who took the pictures and created the graphic..... ;)

fsujax

April 26, 2013, 11:02:40 AM
From today's Daily Record.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539336

Tacachale

April 26, 2013, 11:24:37 AM
It will be awesome if that works out.

JUGrad

April 26, 2013, 11:25:49 AM
A little more info from Jax Business Journal...  Potentially restored for retail use?  Interesting....

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/04/26/bostwick-building-under-contract-for.html

fsujax

April 26, 2013, 11:45:21 AM
I really do not want to get to excited about this, because the buyer still has a due diligence report to complete. Would be a cool location for a CVS or Walgreens, urban style of course.

Debbie Thompson

April 26, 2013, 12:36:15 PM
Don't you just love what Val Bostwick said?  "A preliminary inquiry suggests the cost of stabilizing and restoring the structure would likely exceed the value of the finished product," Val Bostwick said in September. "That's the situation we're faced with, the situation anyone buying the building is faced with."

Like the building just happened to be that way, and the Bostwicks, who have owned the building for 100+ years, had absolutely nothing to do with the building's deterioration. They just woke up one morning, the building was fine the day before, and suddenly it had no roof and structural issues.  Just sayin...

Hoping this is good news for this historic building.

duvaldude08

April 26, 2013, 01:23:24 PM
Don't you just love what Val Bostwick said?  "A preliminary inquiry suggests the cost of stabilizing and restoring the structure would likely exceed the value of the finished product," Val Bostwick said in September. "That's the situation we're faced with, the situation anyone buying the building is faced with."

Like the building just happened to be that way, and the Bostwicks, who have owned the building for 100+ years, had absolutely nothing to do with the building's deterioration. They just woke up one morning, the building was fine the day before, and suddenly it had no roof and structural issues.  Just sayin...

Hoping this is good news for this historic building.

+10000 Ive been saying that all along. They are the reason the building is falling apart, and act they have nothing to do with it and want the city to feel sorry for them. NOT!

mbwright

April 26, 2013, 01:47:43 PM
If you left your car windows down, and let it run out of oil, it would not be the manufacturer's fault if it broke down, or got mildew.  The Bosticks are the sole reason this building is in the condition it is in.  There might be additional factors, but this did not happen over night, as a surprise.

sheclown

April 26, 2013, 06:01:11 PM
Big Huge THANK YOU to the historic planning department. 

Joel, Lisa and the crew.  You guys did it!!! 

You made it possible for alternatives to demolition to be found.

Debbie Thompson

April 26, 2013, 07:16:15 PM
Yes, absolutely. Duval Dude, the building needs to be preserved. And thank goodness for this news. I was merely commenting on the irony of Val Bostwick's comment.

pwhitford

May 09, 2013, 06:05:38 PM
Ovinte partners want to buy the Bostwick Building for restaurant development
 
 
The Bostwick Building, located at Bay and Ocean streets Downtown.

Tuesday, May 7, 6:47 PM EDT
by David Chapman, Staff Writer

Jacques Klempf, Chad Munsey and Fraser Burns, partners in the Ovinte wine, cocktails and tapas lounge at the St. Johns Town Center, have been identified as the purchasing group under contract for the Bostwick Building.

Building representative Karl Bostwick announced Friday the historic building Downtown at Bay and Ocean streets was under contract, but did not identify the potential buyer. The Bostwick family has owned the building since 1902.

It has been closed and vacant for some time and faced demolition.

The partners attended the City Council Land Use & Zoning Committee on Tuesday. Klempf and GrayRobinson attorney Terry Moore spoke at the public hearing on two pieces of legislation.

Klempf said the group was "aggressively moving forward" in addressing its side of contract-related conditions and has engaged an architect and other professionals to assess the building.

The due diligence portion of the contract ends June 14. The committee continued the legislative issues until June.

The buyers said they haven't developed a concept for the building, other than it will be restaurant.

"We just think it's a great venue and it just has great access, visibility and we feel like we can put a concept there that will really be great for the city," Klempf said.

Munsey said the concept will not be the same concept as Ovinte.

"We're going to restore the building … and put what I think is going to be the nicest restaurant in the city," Klempf said.

He said the group wanted to restore the building to its natural façade. Burns said the partners wanted to "do something really special."

"Whether or not that's 50 seats or 150 seats, we have no idea. We won't know until we really get in there," Burns said.

The group declined to discuss financials of the contract.

Val Bostwick, Johnson Enterprises Inc. senior sales associate, who has handled the building's marketing, also declined comment.

Klempf said the largest hurdle would be the due diligence period.

Moore told the committee the group has hired an architect and structural engineer to assess the building and will hire a water intrusion specialist.

"We need some time to assess this building," Moore told the committee.

Klempf said after the meeting that a lawsuit filed on behalf of a Bostwick Building neighbor regarding water damage intrusion must be addressed by the Bostwicks before the deal is complete.

Known as the "jaguar building" for its window murals, Klempf said the features will not be a part of the building under its ownership. He said the Bostwicks will take them.

dchapman@baileypub.com

sheclown

August 06, 2013, 07:25:52 PM
The new owner spoke tonight at the LUZ workshop meeting.  He was asking for a bit more time (2 weeks) -- to do what I'm not really sure.  He has negotiated with the city for the rolling fines, has hired Elkins construction and the company is working on a detailed time line.  The owner has anticipated 18 months for completion, but hopes it will be done sooner.  CM Redman asked about the corner issue and the owner politely told him that his contractor is aware of the problem.

Other than Redman, the LUZ wanted to kiss him.

aubureck

November 18, 2013, 11:52:20 AM
Appeal of demolition of structure and landmark status will finally be heard tomorrow, Tuesday November 19th at LUZ.

Doctor_K

November 18, 2013, 12:56:26 PM
Does that mean it's back on the chopping block to get torn down??

riverside planner

November 18, 2013, 01:00:39 PM
Does that mean it's back on the chopping block to get torn down??

Yes.

I-10east

November 18, 2013, 06:47:12 PM
Here's the article from the jaxbizjournal concerning tomorrow night's meeting on the Bostwick's fate.

www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/11/18/bostwick-buildings-fate-to-be.html

JeffreyS

November 18, 2013, 08:19:20 PM
They need to deny this permit and not set a precedent that we will accept demolition by neglect.

Kay

November 18, 2013, 08:23:43 PM
Need a good turnout at the LUZ meeting tomorrow night in opposition to demolition.

Debbie Thompson

November 18, 2013, 09:30:11 PM
Can't make it tomorrow.  Won't the Bostwick's have to deal with the water intrusion suit either way, so why not settle it and get the restoration under way?

Noone

November 19, 2013, 12:48:10 AM
DIA Board meeting is the next day at 5 pm. The Bostwick guys did get added to the OED list that was voted away by DIA. Should be an interesting meeting.

Bridges

November 19, 2013, 04:56:15 PM
I'm confused.  I thought there was a serious offer to buy the building pending law suit settlement.  Granted it did lapse, but from the articles I read it seemed like Klempf was still open to it.  But then I see someone on Facebook claim that they haven't had any serious buyers?

Noone

November 19, 2013, 05:02:15 PM
LUZ on right now.

John P

November 19, 2013, 05:13:25 PM
Oh boy this should be interesting. Wish I was a fly on the wall there listening.

thelakelander

November 19, 2013, 05:19:55 PM
Jim Bailey sticks around to work on 11th hour Bostwick deal

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2013/11/19/movement-on-the-bostwick-building-but.html

JayBird

November 19, 2013, 05:38:02 PM
If someone could live blog or recap tonight's meeting that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance. :)

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 06:04:53 PM
Bostwick was first on the agenda, but immediately got pushed to last on the schedule. There are now 30 hearings preceding. We are currently on 9. Look forward to a loooong night at council chambers.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:06:34 PM
7:00PM - Lori Boyer begins 2012-720, the landmark designation of the Bostwick building. Expartee disclosure by the LUZ board.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:17:28 PM
Mr Bostwick begins his 15 minute objection against the landmark designation.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:19:38 PM
In summary - "My family is influential, and my children deserve their right to an empty lot downtown"

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:25:43 PM
Bostwick family lawyer - "What you are effectively doing to my client is taking his property away from him"

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:33:30 PM
"The Bostwick family has always believed that historic designation limits the property owner's ability to renovate a property" - Bostwick

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:37:01 PM
Bill Bishop "If this building has been in your family for as long as it has, why has it been allowed to deteriorate to the point it has?"

Bostwick "When we purchased it in 1996, it was condemned and in its current state"

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:44:13 PM
"I believe that the real property owner's rights exceed those of the Historic Preservation Commission" - Bostwick

"So you're suggesting that we change our laws to accommodate you?" Lori Boyer

JeffreyS

November 19, 2013, 07:45:56 PM
Thanks for live bloging this joshuataylor.

FSBA

November 19, 2013, 07:50:21 PM
"So you're suggesting that we change our laws to accommodate you?" Lori Boyer

Its hard for me not to get upset when pinheaded nimwits in power make statements like this.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:53:00 PM
"The city has found, via Historic Preservation inspector, that the building meets 6 of the 7 requirements for Historic Designation" Jason Teal

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:55:37 PM
"So you're suggesting that we change our laws to accommodate you?" Lori Boyer

Its hard for me not to get upset when pinheaded nimwits in power make statements like this.

The sentiment is mutual, I'm sure

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 07:59:56 PM
Speaker cards have begun. Wayne Wood is the first speaker.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:02:12 PM
"Back in the 70's, I spoke with the Bostwick family about securing and salvaging the building, and they denied. I tried again in the 80's, and was denied again."  Wayne Wood

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:02:51 PM
Emily Lisska is next to the podium.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:05:04 PM
And Emily Lisska is doing her usual amazing job of explaining to dolts why historic properties are historic.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:05:39 PM
Stephen Dare has just joined myself, Ashley from the Daily Record, and Daniel Austin in the peanut gallery section of the council audience.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:06:26 PM
Terry Lorrince is next to take the podium.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:07:25 PM
"This one block of downtown is the most important block of historic architecture that we have in the downtown district" - Terry Lorrince

thelakelander

November 19, 2013, 08:07:49 PM
Josh, thanks for live blogging this for those of us who could not make the meeting in person. Referring to the Bostwick's purchasing the property in 1996, are they saying they've put zero dollars into the building in the last 17 years?

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:09:19 PM
Gloria Duvall is next to take the podium.

JeffreyS

November 19, 2013, 08:10:19 PM
Josh, thanks for live blogging this for those of us who could not make the meeting in person. Referring to the Bostwick's purchasing the property in 1996, are they saying they've put zero dollars into the building in the last 17 years?

And prevented others from putting renovation dollars into it.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:10:30 PM
In the audience:  Terry Lorrince (who is now speaking on behalf of DVI)
Jennifer Hewitt Apperson, Joshua Taylor, Daniel Austin (From Somewhere in the City) Gloria Devall of Preservation SOS, Kay Ehas, Jim Overton, CHris Hand from the Mayor's office, Jim Bailey, and Jason Teal from the General Counsel's office.  Oh.  And Bill Hoff.

Jennifer Hewitt Apperson (a city planner and one of the lights over at DVI) is speaking with a level of authoritative expertise that she probably gained in the City Planning industry.

Lori Boyer is the chair of this meeting, and she is sitting on the committee with Bill Bishop, Matt Schellenberg, Jim Love, Robin Lumb and evil garden troll, Don Redman.

Intuition Ale Works

November 19, 2013, 08:10:39 PM
Josh, thanks for live blogging this for those of us who could not make the meeting in person. Referring to the Bostwick's purchasing the property in 1996, are they saying they've put zero dollars into the building in the last 17 years?

I think so.

They should be embarrassed.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:11:03 PM
Josh, thanks for live blogging this for those of us who could not make the meeting in person. Referring to the Bostwick's purchasing the property in 1996, are they saying they've put zero dollars into the building in the last 17 years?

Basically, this was the case.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:12:50 PM
Public Hearing was just closed to Committee

JayBird

November 19, 2013, 08:13:46 PM
Terry Lorrince from Downtown Vision has been wanting, heck needs that property to be properly redeveloped. Lori Boyer I believe is in the preservation corner too and of course MJ's very own SheClown being there I hv a good feeling about the outcome here tonight. Would love to see a restaurant/art gallery/performance space/something/anything come here. But even the Big Cat is better than a vacant lot, IMO

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:14:00 PM
Sitting next to Ashley Kritzer from the Jacksonville Business Journal, and trying pretty hard to keep up with her supernatural typing speeds are a little exhausting.  Ive abandoned the attempt.

The scion of the Bostwick clan just made a fairly weak attempt to justify the demolition of the building, and made a few historical corrections as to the lineage of his grandfather (the builder) in relationship to the office of Mayor of Jacksonville (he was apparently the son of the mayor, not the mayor himself)

Emily Lisska looks serene and untroubled sitting in the back.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:14:54 PM
Jim Love is speaking, and has apparently taken the night off from communism to speak up for the historic fabric of the building.  Nicely presented, actually.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:17:33 PM
Don Redman is speaking in his constipated southern style of troll speak, asking Joel McEachin if there are any incentives available to the bostwick building if it achieves historic status.  There are, and then Redman surprises everyone in the room by announcing that while he is usually a staunch supporter of personal property rights, he sees there is value to saving the historic structure.

You could literally knock me over with a feather, and even Emily's right eyebrow noticeably lifted.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:18:32 PM
It looks like the historic status is going to be unanimous.  seven in favor of historic landmark status.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:19:47 PM
It looks like the historic status is going to be unanimous.  seven in favor of historic landmark status.

Historic Designation Passes 7-0

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:20:25 PM
the historic landmark status passes resoundingly.
Now we are taking up the matter of the demolition itself, but considering the vote just taken, only a fool would bet on the demolition permit being issued by this body.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:21:38 PM
Jason Teal has now begun his 15 minutes on the demolition bill, 2012-657

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:23:19 PM
I just notice Calvin Burney sitting pensively in the audience.  Jason Teal is grimly going over the parameters of approving a demolition.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:25:13 PM
Stephen, do you find it odd to not see Jim Bailey in attendance? This and Hemming Park are his two pet projects. Or am I somehow overlooking him?

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:25:47 PM
Apparently there was a kerfluffle earlier as the clear implication was made by Councilman Redman that the building owners were being um....less than forthright about having met him in his office to seek historic structure status themselves on an earlier occasion.  Which they flatly denied, and he just as flatly restated.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:26:51 PM
Stephen, do you find it odd to not see Jim Bailey in attendance? This and Hemming Park are his two pet projects. Or am I somehow overlooking him?

He is discretely hanging out in the back of the room.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:27:42 PM
Now 15 minutes begins for the Bostwick Trio and what I imagine will be a very intricate soft shoe routine

JayBird

November 19, 2013, 08:28:13 PM
Thank you Joshua and Stephen, this is great news. Now hopefully they can clear up that lawsuit matter and start taking action.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:29:53 PM
Brian Blackburn is up at the lectern making the very hackneyed argument that the limitation of the use of the property is actually a taking of the property.

If his point in valid, then obviously a hundred years of zoning and use regulations will have to be tossed out.

It doesnt seem like a smart argument to make in front of a Land Use and Zoning Committee.

Obviously the city can decide the proper use of property and this is a modification of property rights, but not a taking of property.  Just a very disingenuous tactic to deploy.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:31:48 PM
"Does demolishing the building in some way eliminate the lawsuit that has been pending for seven years?" Matt Schellenberg

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:33:28 PM
The committee is simply not having any of Blackburn's sauce tonight.

Its leaving a sharp aftertaste for the councilmembers apparently.

In flames, Brian Blackburn retreats.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:35:11 PM
well, (and consider this is grudging for me, this is a collection of my most pilloried councilmen) its nice to see the response of the council as they are siding on the side of the right, and the good lord.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:37:07 PM
well, (and consider this is grudging for me, this is a collection of my most pilloried councilmen) its nice to see the response of the council as they are siding on the side of the right, and the good lord.

Is this the apocalypse? Or does it just seem that way to Mr Bostwick and his minions?

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:38:51 PM
The 'appraiser' is getting his guts mashed up into fish food by the council.  He is speaking on behalf of demolishing the building and Schellenberg has already digested and recycled his 'argument'.

Lori Boyer is helpfully pointing out that the cost of rehabilitation should be sourced from a liscensed engineer or architect.

She asks (the by now stuttering) gentleman if he has any of the above qualifications.

the answer, stiltingly, is um....no.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:40:23 PM
well, (and consider this is grudging for me, this is a collection of my most pilloried councilmen) its nice to see the response of the council as they are siding on the side of the right, and the good lord.

Is this the apocalypse? Or does it just seem that way to Mr Bostwick and his minions?

this is seriously amazing.  these guys are literally on fire, doing the kind of public service work that you always hope is getting done by public officials.

Schellenberg is really showing his value tonight.  wow.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
Mr Bostwick has approached the microphone again for the remaining time, an obvious glutton for punishment.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:41:46 PM
would you characterize his current speech as 'gently testy' or just defeated and bitter sounding?

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:42:57 PM
he admits that his family had the funds set aside for renovation, but had decided against it because there wasnt an appropriate return on investment.

not very impressive.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:43:27 PM
would you characterize his current speech as 'gently testy' or just defeated and bitter sounding?

he is the proverbial deflated balloon

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:45:33 PM
Well the hearing is winding down, and nothing is blowing the skirts up for the committee.

I think everyone is pretty aware of the real situation, and now bostwick is trying to rehabilitate his image, not really deter the obvious vote that is about to happen.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:47:25 PM
"Location location location" - Bostwick

It's a shame the building isn't at the Town Center...

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:47:44 PM
Bishop:  So this is really just your personal opinion (regarding the value of the building)

Bostwick, (tersely) Its my professional opinion.

Bishop:  Except that theres no appraisal to back that up or anything that documents it.

the expressions of these two are a true study.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:49:08 PM
now bostwick is getting snarky about how many years that they have been paying taxes.

Its not landing very well, either in the room or with the committee.

Emily looks like she needs an aspirin.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:53:29 PM
Ashley Kritzer reporting that Bostwick is claiming that empty land downtown is being sold for 40 to 50 dollars per square foot, but that the recent fresh market land was purchased at 8 dollars per square foot.

Thats not so good.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:54:47 PM
By the way, the Business Journal certainly has an asset in the form of Ashley Kritzer.  She's pretty hypercompetent.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:55:13 PM
Jason Teal returns to the microphone to take his victory lap. I wish I had a bottle of champagne to present to him.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 08:55:38 PM
By the way, the Business Journal certainly has an asset in the form of Ashley Kritzer.  She's pretty hypercompetent.

+100

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 08:59:00 PM
Jason Teal is making a very competent and compellingly well constructed argument against the demolition of the property.

"Imagine knocking out your front tooth.  Thats what folks are going to see first thing when they come over that bridge."

This is the gateway to the downtown, its not like its tucked into some corner where no one will ever see it.

fieldafm

November 19, 2013, 09:00:21 PM
Ashley Kritzer reporting that Bostwick is claiming that empty land downtown is being sold for 40 to 50 dollars per square foot, but that the recent fresh market land was purchased at 8 dollars per square foot.

Thats not so good.

They've always had a very 'interesting' sense of the market.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:01:42 PM
you should be checking out Ashley's twitter feed as well as somewhere in the city if you want to get a full view of the meeting. @JBJAshley and @DNAustin.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:02:27 PM
Ashley Kritzer reporting that Bostwick is claiming that empty land downtown is being sold for 40 to 50 dollars per square foot, but that the recent fresh market land was purchased at 8 dollars per square foot.

Thats not so good.

They've always had a very 'interesting' sense of the market.

apparently its the kind of sense that comes from the rear end of a male cow.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:06:50 PM
wow.  the Klempfs (who offered to buy the building from the Bostwicks---at their asking price unsuccessfully)  has already spent 60 thousand dollars doing the due diligence on renovating the building as a restaurant and business investment.

His testimony is compelling and absolutely devastating to the Bostwicks.  He extended the contract for the bostwicks six times.  (and his meter is still running, apparently)

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 09:08:46 PM
wow.  the Klempfs (who offered to buy the building from the Bostwicks---at their asking price unsuccessfully)  has already spent 60 thousand dollars doing the due diligence on renovating the building as a restaurant and business investment.

His testimony is compelling and absolutely devastating to the Bostwicks.  He extended the contract for the bostwicks six times.  (and his meter is still running, apparently)

He is one of the investors of Ovinte wine bar at the Town Center. it is a hugely successful business venture, and downtown would be lucky to have both he and his business partner Chad bringing a concept to downtown.

thelakelander

November 19, 2013, 09:09:11 PM
Ashley Kritzer reporting that Bostwick is claiming that empty land downtown is being sold for 40 to 50 dollars per square foot, but that the recent fresh market land was purchased at 8 dollars per square foot.

Thats not so good.

They've always had a very 'interesting' sense of the market.

More like delusional....

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:11:23 PM
I dont think I realized that he was part of Ovinte. 

Apparently there have been a number of offers for the Bostwick Building all of which have been turned down.

All of the offers are being told that they are denied because the Bostwick's need for more money.

Almost all market valuations of the property are coming in at about 150k for the property.

Lori Boyer demonstrated that the asking price is based on about 100 dollars per square foot.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 09:13:13 PM
I dont think I realized that he was part of Ovinte. 

Apparently there have been a number of offers for the Bostwick Building all of which have been turned down.

All of the offers are being told that they are denied because the Bostwick's need for more money.

Almost all market valuations of the property are coming in at about 150k for the property.

Lori Boyer demonstrated that the asking price is based on about 100 dollars per square foot.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=539429

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:16:00 PM
apparently the city can simply foreclose on the property right now to recoup the lien against the property. Such an action would force the sale of the property to satisfy the lien.

The minimum bid would then start at the amount of the lien (60k) and if no one met the minimum bid then the city would simply take the property for satisfaction of the lien.

The back of Bostwick's neck is cherry red right now.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 09:17:00 PM
apparently the city can simply foreclose on the property right now to recoup the lien against the property. Such an action would force the sale of the property to satisfy the lien.

The minimum bid would then start at the amount of the lien (60k) and if no one met the minimum bid then the city would simply take the property for satisfaction of the lien.

The back of Bostwick's neck is cherry red right now.

from my viewpoint, Stephen, it matches the purple of his face quite nicely

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:18:07 PM
this has to be a very chillling discussion for the Bostwicks to be watching.  And it might just be a dash of water into the overheated environment of several other upperclass but nevertheless longtime downtown demolition by neglecters.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:19:46 PM
his attorney, Brian Blackburn is irritably swinging his spectacles against the side of his chair.

To be honest, this kind of excoriating, reality based discussion about historic preservation is long overdue downtown.

The ashes of 9 generations of Jacksonville wish it would have come sooner.

edjax

November 19, 2013, 09:20:28 PM
Why do I get the feeling if the Bostwicks don't get their way on this we in the future will see a large cement truck losing control while coming down the Main St bridge and take out that building?

Charles Hunter

November 19, 2013, 09:21:54 PM
It sure is a shame those nasty homeless people broke into the building, and the fire they lit to keep warm got out of control ...

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:22:25 PM
Jim Overton is up, first speaker from the public on the matter of the demolition permit.

He also serves as the city's Property Appraiser, and his testimony should be pretty interesting.

He is telling the committee that the actual appraised value is 112k.

JeffreyS

November 19, 2013, 09:23:22 PM
I know the city won't take the property right now but perhaps it should.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 09:26:30 PM
Jim Overton - The selling price for the Haydon Burns Library was ~$24psf, the most recent sale of the Laura Street Trio was ~$11psf, the Property Appraiser has placed the value of The Bostwick Building between those two, at ~$14psf.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:28:21 PM
I know the city won't take the property right now but perhaps it should.

To be honest, it would do a lot of good.  One good example would go a long way.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:30:05 PM
Next up:

Terry Lorrince, Kay Ehas, and Emily Lisska.

The Trifecta.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:31:14 PM
Jennifer Hewitt Apperson:

As the parent of a five year old, I don't think we should be rewarding bad behavior.  All the difficulties that the Bostwicks are having are self inflicted.

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:32:47 PM
public hearing is closed.

Holt moves to amend the petition to deny the demolition permit, which is seconded by Bishop.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 09:34:47 PM
public hearing is closed.

Holt moves to amend the petition to deny the demolition permit, which is seconded by Bishop.

...And Bill Bishop elects to hammer a few more nails into Mr Bostwick's smug sense of pride before the vote

stephendare

November 19, 2013, 09:35:29 PM
what is extraordinary about this hearing is the sea change in the public discourse about the shoddy stewardship of our historic fabric.  Not only the historic preservationists, but now also the public and the political leadership.

Its apparent that fifty years of 'tear it down, its cheaper' on the part of the old landowners is over.

joshuataylor

November 19, 2013, 09:36:40 PM
The Appeal To Demolish is Denied 7-0

Steve

November 19, 2013, 09:39:34 PM
Wow, catching up on this, is this the JACKSONVILLE City Council?

In all serious, this should tell folks that demolition through neglect is unacceptable.

Steve

November 19, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
And that the Bostwicks have the same understanding of value as a 2006 real estate speculator.

Tacachale

November 19, 2013, 10:43:34 PM
Good news, and thanks for covering it, guys. Man, it's really hard to have much sympathy for the Bostwicks considering that every issue they're facing is self-inflicted. Maybe - maybe - we'll finally see some action on this.

sheclown

November 19, 2013, 10:49:50 PM
It was a wonderful evening -- Jacksonville stood for preservation tonight and stood together. 

jcjohnpaint

November 19, 2013, 10:57:37 PM
Great News :)

I-10east

November 19, 2013, 11:14:59 PM
and evil garden troll, Don Redman.

LMAO.

Good to hear that there were unanimous decisions for the Bostwick's historical status and no-go on demo.

sheclown

November 20, 2013, 06:52:38 AM
I know the city won't take the property right now but perhaps it should.

The city, through Jason Teal, clearly threatened to take the building if the Bostwicks don't sell.  And not only take it, but charge them the legal fees it will cost to do so.

They would foreclose on the rolling fines (which are at 60k and grow by $100 a day).  The city council would ask general counsel to initiate a law suit against the brothers to take the property.  This was no mere threat.  Jason took the LUZ through the process and felt quite confident the city would win.

thelakelander

November 20, 2013, 06:56:57 AM
I don't see why these guys are being such a pain.  Most people would run around naked in the streets with joy, if offered three times as much for a property you've put no money into.  Bostwicks.....take the +$300k and run.

sheclown

November 20, 2013, 07:02:02 AM
The buyer (whose contract has expired) told us that he has invested $60k in the process of purchasing the building.  He dropped the contract because the sellers continually played games (my words not his).  He stated that he is still interested in the Bostwick, but indicated that the price offered would be lower (presumably by $60) than he offered below.

LUZ clearly encouraging the brothers to take the deal.

Sometimes, in situations like this, less is more.  One of the Bostwicks stated last night that the family had the means to fix up the building, but never thought is was "economically feasible" to do so.  Add that to the fact that the brothers met with Don Redman years ago to ask about getting it landmarked to qualify for funds to fix up the building.  When they found that it wasn't available, they dropped the landmark request.  This came from Redman.  Last night the brothers denied asking Redman for the landmark status.

So, calling a councilman a liar wasn't a great move either.

What not to say at a city council meeting....

sheclown

November 20, 2013, 07:06:24 AM
"Does demolishing the building in some way eliminate the lawsuit that has been pending for seven years?" Matt Schellenberg

The lawsuit has been ongoing since 2007.  The neighboring party said it would dismiss the suit if the project gets renovated.

Interestingly enough, the answer to whether or not rolling fines are erased, per Jason Teal, is no.   It stops the rolling fines, but does not remove them.  This is a question PSOS has been wondering for a long time.  So, there are vacant lots all around Springfield with demo liens and huge rolling fines on them.  NICE.  And we thought the ash dumping was toxic.

sheclown

November 20, 2013, 07:07:26 AM
Terry Lorrince from Downtown Vision has been wanting, heck needs that property to be properly redeveloped. Lori Boyer I believe is in the preservation corner too and of course MJ's very own SheClown being there I hv a good feeling about the outcome here tonight. Would love to see a restaurant/art gallery/performance space/something/anything come here. But even the Big Cat is better than a vacant lot, IMO

Thanks JayBird.  Yes, you were right to have a good feeling about tonight's outcome.  And it looks like the restaurant may have a chance after all.

sheclown

November 20, 2013, 07:08:15 AM
Jim Love is speaking, and has apparently taken the night off from communism to speak up for the historic fabric of the building.  Nicely presented, actually.

Yes, he spoke eloquently about preservation last night. 

Noone

November 20, 2013, 08:02:16 AM
"Does demolishing the building in some way eliminate the lawsuit that has been pending for seven years?" Matt Schellenberg

Interestingly enough, the answer to the question, per Jason Teal, is no.   It stops the rolling fines, but does not remove them.  This is a question PSOS has been wondering for a long time.  So, there are vacant lots all around Springfield with demo liens and huge rolling fines on them.  NICE.  And we thought the ash dumping was toxic.

Makes you wonder about $$539,244 in ordinance 2013-377 to Remove Property Code violations city-wide in compliance with Chap. 518 Ord. Code.

 DIA Board meeting Today at 5pm 1St floor city hall.

At the 7/24/13 DIA Board meeting OED had the DIA vote away their say.

The Authorization to Negotiate and Engage on Various Downtown Projects had the Bostwick added to the Pre submitted list. This all happened prior to the start of the new guy Aundra Wallace.

Scrub Palmetto

November 20, 2013, 08:30:00 AM
Man, this is better than football. And that's as much a comment on the quality and color of the reporting here as on the outcome. Thanks, Stephen and Joshua. A victory for team preservation. Heck, a victory for Jax.

fsujax

November 20, 2013, 08:38:55 AM
Great news.

Cliffs_Daughter

November 20, 2013, 08:51:49 AM
Man, this is better than football. And that's as much a comment on the quality and color of the reporting here as on the outcome. Thanks, Stephen and Joshua. A victory for team preservation. Heck, a victory for Jax.

Second that!

IrvAdams

November 20, 2013, 09:17:20 AM
Yes, yes, yes - great news, thanks to all involved. Thanks for the great posts last night, I read them all with anticipation. It looks like Jax is looking forward, and beginning to appreciate its treasures. A plan is definitely coming together.

Debbie Thompson

November 20, 2013, 01:07:29 PM
It is to be hoped.  Although I am THRILLED with this outcome, my fear is that the reason the Council is so gung ho on this building is its location right at the foot of the Main Street bridge on Bay Street.  If it were tucked away in the middle of the CBD, I wonder if they would be so proactive.

That said, I'd so very much love to be wrong, and hope the Council has finally awakened to the fact we need to preserve history in Jacksonville.  It's about time.

joshuataylor

November 20, 2013, 02:06:16 PM
Man, this is better than football. And that's as much a comment on the quality and color of the reporting here as on the outcome. Thanks, Stephen and Joshua. A victory for team preservation. Heck, a victory for Jax.

Second that!
Yes, yes, yes - great news, thanks to all involved. Thanks for the great posts last night, I read them all with anticipation. It looks like Jax is looking forward, and beginning to appreciate its treasures. A plan is definitely coming together.

There's nothing more satisfying than filing a report when you know the outcome sides on behalf of the community and the greater good, and not the greed and laziness of absentee landlords. Maybe Jacksonville can have nice things...

thelakelander

November 20, 2013, 05:02:36 PM
It is to be hoped.  Although I am THRILLED with this outcome, my fear is that the reason the Council is so gung ho on this building is its location right at the foot of the Main Street bridge on Bay Street.  If it were tucked away in the middle of the CBD, I wonder if they would be so proactive.

If it were in a less profile location it would have been torn down years ago.  Buildings like this have been coming down in neighborhoods like Durkeeville, Phoenix, Eastside, etc. for years.  Zora Neale Hurston's family's Eastside flower shop was taken out by code enforcement a few months ago.  Not a peep was heard across this city and I'd argue it was just as historically significant as the Bostwick.  Nevertheless, whatever the case, I'm happy with the Bostwick outcome so far.

strider

November 20, 2013, 05:20:47 PM
The flower shop did not disappear without a peep.  There will be consequences for using NSP funds to demolish it.

coredumped

April 30, 2014, 11:37:32 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere but it looks like the city foreclosed on it last month:
Quote
JACKSONVILLE, Fla – The Bostwick Building will soon be up for sale after a judge ruled in favor of the city in a foreclosure lawsuit.

The owners of the building owe more than $70,000 in fines due to code violations, according to Chris Hand, chief of staff for Mayor Alvin Brown.

The minimum price at the still-to-be-scheduled sale would be the fines plus any attorneys’ fees.

“It built up over a number of years, steps they hadn't taken to keep the building well-maintained and in good condition,” Hand told Action News.

The owners had wanted to tear the building down, claiming it was beyond repair. But city officials oppose that plan.

“Because the market says otherwise,” Hand said. “Prior to this court case, there was more than one private owner who wanted to come in and redevelop the Bostwick Building.”

One of those developers told our news partners at the Jacksonville Business Journal he's still interested in putting an upscale restaurant and rooftop bar in the building.

The Bostwick family still owns the building until the outcome of that foreclosure sale. If no one bids on the building, the city will take over the title.
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/City-wins-foreclosure-lawsuit-over-Bostwick/zzpjl9dWLk2QcDtLc4TZ7A.cspx?rss=3568

AuditoreEnterprise

May 01, 2014, 10:45:15 AM
It's not a topic here, but I commented on a post regarding that. I just don't recall the thread name. I am glad the building will potentially get a new owner let's see what happens to it. I tried contacting the Bostwick's for let's see about 2 months straight about 6 months ago to bring the building up to code, but they never contacted me back so I honestly am glad they lost it.
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