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Tale of the Tape:
Denver City Population 2011: 619,968 (City); 2,599,504 (Metro) - (incorporated in 1861)
Jacksonville Pop. 2011: 827,908 (City); 1,360,251 (Metro-2011) - (incorporated in 1832)
City population 1950: Jacksonville (204,517); Denver (415,786)
City Land Area
Denver: 153.3 square miles
Jacksonville: 757.7 square miles
Metropolitan Area Growth rate (2010-2011)
Denver: +2.20%
Jacksonville: +1.09%
Urban Area Population (2010 census)
Denver: 2,374,203 (ranked 18 nationwide)
Jacksonville: 1,065,219 (ranked 40 nationwide)
Urban Area Population Density (2010 census)
Denver: 3,554.4 people per square mile
Jacksonville: 2,008.5 people per square mile
City Population Growth from 2000 to 2011
Denver: +65,332
Jacksonville: +92,405
Convention Center Exhibition Space:
Denver: Colorado Convention Center (1990) - 584,000 square feet
Jacksonville: Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center (1985) - 78,500 square feet
Connected to or across the street from Convention Center:
Denver: Hyatt Regency (1,100 rooms), Embassy Suites (403 rooms), Hilton Garden Inn (221 rooms),
Jacksonville: N/A
Tallest Building:
Denver: Republic Plaza - 714 feet
Jacksonville: Bank of America Tower - 617 feet
Fortune 500 companies 2009 (City limits only):
Denver: DaVita (359)
Denver's suburbs: Arrow Electronic (133), DISH Network (191), Liberty Interactive (230), Newmont Mining (257), Liberty Global (261), Ball (297), CH2M Hill (440), Western Union (445)
Jacksonville: CSX (226), Winn-Dixie Stores (363), Fidelity National Information Services (425), Fidelity National Financial (472)
Urban infill obstacles:
Denver: Rail yards, I-25 and the South Platte River cut off Downtown Denver from Highland, West Colfax and Jefferson Park.
Jacksonville: State & Union Streets cut off Downtown Jacksonville from Springfield.
Downtown Nightlife:
Denver: LoDo
Jacksonville: East Bay Street
Common Downtown Albatross:
Both cities have a large number of peripheral surface parking lots.
Who's Downtown is more walkable?
Denver: 96 out of 100, according to walkscore.com
Jacksonville: 88 out of 100, according to walkscore.com
About Downtown Denver
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Downtown Denver is the main financial, commercial, and entertainment district in Denver, Colorado. There is over 23,000,000 sq ft of office space in downtown Denver, with 130,000 workers. The downtown area can be divided into six or seven main districts: Union Station, LoDo (however, Union Station is often considered to be part of LoDo), Ball Park, Central Downtown, Civic Center, Upper Downtown, and Arapahoe Square. Within those districts are many smaller features, districts and squares. Some of the more popular features include the 16th Street pedestrian mall, built in 1982, Larimer Square, the re-emerging Theatre District near Curtis and 14th, and Civic Center Park. Surrounding neighborhoods include Capitol Hill and Uptown to the east, Highland to the west, Five Points to the north, and the Golden Triangle to the south.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Denver
Clustering Complementing Uses Within A Compact Setting
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Denver has made a strong effort to centralize its commercial and entertainment interests in the Downtown area. Currently, it is home to both Coors Field and Pepsi Center, and roughly a mile from nearby Invesco Field. LoDo and the 16th Street mall are home to hundreds of bars, restaurants, and cafes, attracting many residents from the metro area and supporting the 10,000 plus residents living in the central business district. Additionally, Downtown Denver is home to the second largest Performing Arts Center in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Denver
Sights and scenes from a vibrant community that continues to invest in itself.
Colorado Convention Center
Looking towards the Denver Performing Arts Complex.
The spectacle of Denver Cruiser Rides was a show not to be missed. Each year the Cruisers announce the zany costume themes for the bike cruises which take place on "Bike Ride Wednesday."
The themes for 2012 included some tried and true favorites — officially referred to as DCR Traditions — such as the Ship o’ Fools (a.k.a. pirates, sea men and nymphs, Sept. 19) and what a Denver Post writer likes to call the Ghetto Robots (bubble wrap, duct tape and cardboard, June 20). There are also some retreads of themes from previous years, like the footie-pajama-friendly Slumber Party (June 6) and rolling Super Diamond concert known as Disco night (May 30).
There, on the horizon, is a semi-coherent swarm of rainbow afro wigs, pirate hats, spandex and pink tutus. It smells of booze, legal cannabis, and bicycle grease, sweat and tears, and by the time the bike-riding blob has overtaken you, it’s too late: you’re part of a Denver Cruiser Ride.
The Cruiser Rides end up at Civic Center Park, seen here at about midnight. Down front a DJ or band has the music cranked up, a pall of thick musty smoke hovers above the crowd, and down there in the blur, in the middle of the photo is a rapidly spinning 'Denver Cruiser Riders Circle of Death'. An amazing feat of stoned femininity and drunken machismo, performed with the zeal and purpose of a fraternity pledge gone way wrong.
16th Street Mall
The 16th Street Mall opened in 1982. 16th Street is no longer a through street, cut at both ends with a fleet of circulator buses running every couple of minutes well into the night, it serves as a vital connector, linking across the grain of all transit and transportation in Denver. The resulting synergy is absolutely the pulse at the heart of the city.
The jovial party atmosphere in nighttime Denver was illustrated by this scene where 5 college age passengers boarded the bus and announced to everyone that it was their friends birthday, the entire bus then broke into singing 'Happy Birthday'. As it turned out, birthday girl was on a scavenger hunt sponsored by her friends, one of the 'items' she had to collect was a bus full of strangers singing happy birthday... mission accomplished.
Daniels & Fisher Tower
Denver's B Cyle bike share program features 53 stations and 530 bicycles, spread across urban Denver.
Mass Transit
FasTracks is Regional Transportation District's (RTD's) voter-approved transit expansion program to build 122 miles of commuter rail and light rail, 18 miles of bus rapid transit service, redevelop Denver Union Station and redirect bus service to better connect the eight-county District.
LoDo (Lower Downtown Denver)
LoDo (LowerDowntown)is known for its nightlif, containing a mix of uses and 21,145 residents. It is the oldest section of Denver. However, by the mid-20th century, the area had become a skid row. In the 1960s and 1970s, 20% of its buildings were demolished. After the 1988 opening of a brewpup called the Wynkoop Brewing Company, the neighborhood eventually become an urban destination. Today, major destinations in LoDo include Coors Field, Pepsi Center, Denver Union Station, Museum of Contemporary Art, Wynkoop Brewing Company and Elitch Gardens Amusement Park.
Coors Field, as seen from the 16Th Street Transit Mall.
Denver Union Station
The Beaux-Arts style Union Station building opened in 1914. During its heyday, it was served by 80 daily trains. Current passenger operations include Amtrak's California Zephyr and C Line and E Line light rail routes. Currently, the complex and another surrounding 19.5 acres are being transformed into a transit oriented retail, office and residential complex.
Denver is clearly a destination and not a pass through. Can you imagine what downtown Jacksonville can become if we focus on stimulating complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting, complete with multimodal connectivity?
Article and images by Robert Mann.
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Adam W
September 10, 2012, 05:52:00 AMGreat article and awesome pictures, Bob. Nice to see. I last visited Denver in 1998. It has changed a lot, but even then it was impressive.
From your article, it's clear there are a lot of options for getting around: foot, bike, bus, tram, rail or car.
I was particularly impressed by the bike ramp by the stairs. They do that in the Netherlands, I believe, but I've never seen one on that scale.
It's almost as if the City of Denver wants to make things easier for its residents.
Keith-N-Jax
September 10, 2012, 07:19:39 AMI was in Denver back in 2006, its amazing how some cities seem to be moving forward with projects to improve their citiy. I'm sure they have had some set backs, but for the most part they seemed to be getting the job done.
simms3
September 10, 2012, 08:10:55 AMCertainly one of the most amazing and progressive cities in America! Looks like you really captured a great vibe there. My mom went to DU for undergrad, I'm sure she'd be shocked and impressed at how much the city has changed since she was last there, enjoying the "small town" it once was.
vicupstate
September 10, 2012, 08:51:01 AMI went there somewhere around 2000-2002, and indeed it was quite impressive then. Obviously it has come even further.
Colorado as a whole is just an impressive state. No billboards statewide, lots of scenic landscape everywhere you go. Historic Western towns that have been completely restored. I can't remember the name of the one I went to. Rocky Mountain National park is great too. I didn't get a chance to see Boulder but everything I have heard is positive.
Captain Zissou
September 10, 2012, 09:20:08 AMLooks like Mellow Mushroom is slowly ruining another neighborhood. I can't see a single piece of trash on the ground, but I'm sure that was just clever editing on Bob's part.
I was in Denver last year and I loved it. We had to kill a few hours while we waited for my sister's flight to get in, so we went downtown. We had no map, no idea where we were going, but we just parked and walked around for a while. We ended up having a great time visiting shops and a pub that was better than any i've seen in Jax. The density and complementing uses made passing the time a joy. In Jacksonville, I suspect many travelers experience the opposite.
Denver's attention to detail and the end user is easily apparant in these few photos. Imagine what else is there that Bob wasn't able to capture on his brief stay.
finehoe
September 10, 2012, 10:04:41 AMI first visited Denver in the late-80s and at the time it reminded me quite a bit of Jacksonville. A lot of the architecture seemed similar, like both cities had experienced growth spurts at similar times. But boy have they pulled ahead of us! Just goes to show you what can be achieved when a city wants to move into the big leagues and works to get there, rather than simply churn out plan after plan that goes nowhere.
birdilicious
September 10, 2012, 11:52:47 AMI grew up just outside of Denver in Aurora. I loved it growing up, there were always awesome things happening and I got to see a lot of awesome concerts and visit really cool coffee shops (I wasn't old enough for bars). When I first moved to Jacksonville I really thought it had the same potential as Denver and I can see it growing slowly, but I know we have the potential to be a great city that others admire as well.
Captain Zissou
September 10, 2012, 12:37:29 PMJust by looking at the cover photo you can see a number of differences between denver and jax. The first thing that pops out is the pedestrian bridge. Regardless of what this bridge is traversing, I don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax. Second is how well maintained that park is. I can't think of a single public space in Jax that looks that manicured and well maintained. Third, the tower crane. When Baptist took down its crane, Jacksonville's skyline became completely devoid of any tower crane or even a large mobile crane. The largest cranes in town can be found at the Towncenter. Finally the most obvious difference is densly clustered midrise urban infill buildings. Jax is completely devoid of any significant residential density anywhere near the urban core.
Jax's leaders need to sit down and look at this one picture and they would be able to learn a lot from Denver in just a short time.
JaxByDefault
September 10, 2012, 12:45:29 PMUsed to live there (and up The Hill in Evergreen). Believe me when I say that downtown Denver didn't used to feature much of anything. I find it interesting that the first early investments in downtown rejuvenation-- the performing arts center area, Larimer Square, and the former Tivoli mall--are all now integrated into larger vibrant areas or converted to other uses.
Denver may have started off with a little more than JAX has downtown now, but not much. If they can do it, we really have no excuse.
simms3
September 10, 2012, 12:51:43 PMQuick research on Denver's taxes. The average home value in 2011 was $225K, so not much higher than in Jacksonville, and so the average tax bill was $1,277. Denver combined millage rate was 71.307 mils for ad valorum/school/etc and the actual value was an assessed value multiplied by 7.96% (usually this is about 40%). For commercial properties it was 29%.
So in Jax I believe the millage rate is around 17 and the actual value is 40% of assessed. $100K house would be $40K times 17/1000 = $680 tax bill.
In Denver a $100K house would $568 tax bill.
For commercial properties in Jax a $50MM office tower would have a $340,000 tax bill whereas in Denver the same tower would have a $1,033,952 tax bill (3x higher taxes on commercial properties in Denver, the bulk of the tax base).
Chicago has a similar system that probably influenced the Denver system whereby commercial properties are penalized much more than residential properties (has a lot to do with politics and voting, it's kind of corrupt). Anyway, long story short is that Denver is investing BILLIONS of dollars more than Jacksonville into itself in transit alone and that money is coming from somewhere.
fsquid
September 10, 2012, 12:56:47 PMwhat is the "river" that people are playing in there? Don't know if that is man made or what
thelakelander
September 10, 2012, 01:29:39 PMThat's the South Platte River. It's natural.
CG7
September 10, 2012, 02:36:10 PMI don't know of any pedestrian bridge of that scale in Jax.
The Northbank Riverwalk has a fabulous pedestrian bridge, at least it did this weekend when I was walking on it.
Adam W
September 10, 2012, 02:49:26 PMIt's also nice to see people actually riding buses. I know they get a bit of a bad rap on this forum sometimes and it's great to show how they can form part of a complete transit solution.
It doesn't have to be a buses OR rail conversation. It can (and should be) both.
Captain Zissou
September 10, 2012, 03:18:44 PMYou're right, but structural elements aside, I don't consider the bridge over the train tracks to be a very good example of a pedestrian bridge. I know this isn't fair, but I was think something more along the lines of the bridge in London over the Thames.
Adam W
September 10, 2012, 03:29:09 PMThis one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge_%28London%29
Captain Zissou
September 10, 2012, 03:34:50 PMThat's the one. Again, not the most fair bridge to compare to Jax, but I'm sure Lake knows some from smaller markets.
Adam W
September 10, 2012, 03:42:24 PMThe bridge pictured in the Denver story reminds me of the artist's rendering of a pedestrian bridge in the story about Arlington that ran recently on the site. I think maybe that was a bridge over a busy road.
JFman00
September 10, 2012, 05:04:42 PMSundial Bridge
Redding, CA
Pedestrian and bike bridge.
Adam W
September 10, 2012, 06:02:10 PM^Nice!
CityLife
September 10, 2012, 07:49:38 PMGreat article. I spend a week or so a year snowboarding in Colorado and stay with a friend in Denver for a few days when I'm there. Great city and only getting better. I know quite a few people who have moved out there and even more who want to. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that barring something crazy happening, Denver will be a major US city by about 2030 and by major I mean one of the great American cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, San Fran, Boston). Its quite simply one of the most livable places in the US due to the natural beauty and countless outdoor recreational opportunities. Not to mention great beer, good food, an educated/progressive population, and geographic advantages. Its about 800 miles to the nearest major city (Dallas) and there are very few mid level cities nearby either. This makes Denver the defacto regional office for a lot of companies, airlines, banks, etc. Its also the gateway to the millions of tourists who visit the mountains year round. DIA is the 11th busiest airport in the US. Point being Denver has a lot of advantages over Jax.
That said...like the article shows, we can learn a lot from Denver. FOR ONE, we can learn that breweries can create a great deal of vibrancy downtown. Wynkoop brewery was a major catalyst in the revitalization of LoDo back in 1988. It makes me sick to my stomach that the powers that be in this city are so blind that they can't see that Intuition would be a major spark downtown.
Unfortunately, I've gotta run, but I'll try to share more thoughts on Denver later.
thelakelander
September 10, 2012, 09:11:20 PMLuckily this site has never promoted the elimination of bus service in favor of a rail only based mass transit system. Any rail spine will only be as successful as the network of local bus lines that feed it. However, when it comes to stimulating transit oriented development along transit corridors, you're not going to get that economic benefit with buses only. That's a major point we try to stress here that most Jaxsons tend to overlook when discussing mass transit.
JFman00
September 10, 2012, 09:29:45 PMPretty much the only time I ever use the bus is to get to/from fixed-rail stations. If there weren't buses, I wouldn't walk more than a half mile or so to get to/from a station (probably just drive direct to destination) and if there wasn't fixed-rail, I'd never get on a bus (cheaper to walk if it's close, easier to drive if it's not).
thelakelander
September 10, 2012, 09:50:08 PMNorthbank Riverwalk (this is probably the best pedestrian bridge we have in town)
Some examples in other communities:
Greenville, SC
Milwaukee
Kansas City
Akron
Nashville
Providence
Hartford
Fort Wayne
Chattanooga
Jacksonville - would have made for a nice a pretty cool pedestrian/transit bridge or sculpture.
Ocklawaha
September 10, 2012, 11:05:14 PMHad to smile at this one Captain, the bridge in Denver IS over the railroad and light rail, in fact the photos of the multi-modal station area were taken from this same bridge. So if we are comparing apples to apples, our pedestrian bridge could be just a cool if we'd lose the chain link and go for a vinyl coated decorative material. Jacksonville's failure in many of these areas is the exact attention to detail seen in the Denver piece.
Anyone recall the hanging baskets that DVI or some such agency placed around downtown? You can buy them at Wal-Mart and the flowers, unmaintained didn't fare too well in our summer heat. A quality nursery supplier could have helped not only with a better looking basket, but plants that could take the abuse of being over a steaming sidewalk. Denver has flowers hanging, in pots, balconies and anywhere else they could find a place to put them, but they are of a much grander scale, they scream beauty and attention.
thelakelander
September 11, 2012, 12:02:06 AM^Somebody is definitely maintaining those, which is another huge problem we have locally. I went to an Urban Core CPAC meeting today and someone referred to several Northside parks like J.P. Small Park as "Disney World-like" places, in terms of maintenance and upkeep. While I agree that J.P. Small Park is one of Jax's better maintained parks, even it pales in comparison in terms of what most cities are doing with their parks these days.
Quite frankly, what's shown in these Denver images looks pretty pristine to me. Not only is there money and real design being thought into them, maintenance looks to be routine and up to snuff.
simms3
September 11, 2012, 12:24:29 AMI can vouch that quite a few cities do plantings very well and maintain them. There are examples in the South I dare not mention that at minimum rival Denver in this one regard. Jacksonville actually has a great environment for potted plants and really should take advantage. Some of the most beautiful gardens in the city belong to homeowners in the Ortega neighborhood, and these homeowners are able to grow beautiful tropical AND northern plants, along with roses, which simply can't be done in most of FL without incredible care/maintenance/skill.
The city should take advantage of its rather unique climate, but it doesn't. :\
Really with every one of these photo tours we are all able to pick out so many great ideas and things being implemented elsewhere with not one being implemented in Jacksonville. Not one. The city is literally not doing one thing right. I sent that FBC YouTube video around to some folks this morning and inquired about the parking garage to one. It's incredible how pervertedly backwards Jax is. Why am I still hung up on it??
Adam W
September 11, 2012, 03:38:29 AMI know that and didn't mean to imply it was Metro Jacksonville's editorial stance. I was referring to people posting on the forum. And I was mainly referring to people like that guy in Tampa who seemed to think it had to be buses OR rail, but not both - as if you had to decide which one you wanted to use and then you were locked into that form of transit exclusively.
Keith-N-Jax
September 11, 2012, 07:37:01 AMSome really nice photos!!
vicupstate
September 11, 2012, 08:33:10 AMThe city should take advantage of its rather unique climate, but it doesn't. :\
+1. Stop planting South Florida native Palms everywhere, and plant some Live Oaks and make more places look like Hemming Plaza.
thelakelander
September 11, 2012, 08:39:26 AMHemming's tree cover is one of the best features in the Northbank. Unfortunately, some want to cut the trees down in Hemming. They believe this is a way to reduce crime and encourage vagrants to not want to spend as much time in the park.
CityLife
September 11, 2012, 09:10:39 AMI believe the oaks in Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods were planted during the developments, so that may not be the natural landscape of downtown/urban core. I'd imagine that prior to settlement, the banks of DT Jax looked similar to Exchange Island which is covered with some beautiful palms. Anyone know?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-urban-parks-exchange-club-island
Back to Denver...the photo essay shows a lot of the 16th street Mall, but you can't really tell how vibrant the rest of DT/LoDo is. Pretty sure most of the bars/restaurant/clubs are on the roads that intersect 16th. There is also a beautiful block or two long stretch of string lights in an upscale shopping/dining area. Pretty sure I have a picture or two at home that I'll try to upload later. Ock, did you catch a glimpse of it? I've always thought that string lights would be a great investment for DT. Maybe on Laura or somewhere in the Bay/Adams/Forsyth area.
fsujax
September 11, 2012, 09:18:07 AMpalms have always been a part of the landscape in jax, especially from the river east.
Captain Zissou
September 11, 2012, 09:26:08 AMThe best way to find out what Jacksonville's native landscape should be is to spend a day or two hiking around Dee Dot ranch. They have hundreds of acres of undisturbed and unsettled old Florida landscapes. Along the water you'll find cypress, palm, and pine. Inland I'm sure you'd find a wonderful mix of trees and shrubs. I imagine there are plenty of other examples, but this is the first that comes to mind when I think of natural Florida.
Ock, I think pedestrian bridges over railroad tracks are wonderful, I just don't love ours. I don't like the benches every 20 feet that break up the incline. That makes running or biking at any speed difficult. I also don't like the spiral down the other side. I agree that the chain link is ugly and a cheap solution, as is typical in jax. Cables or something else would have accomplished the same thing with a much better appearance.
CityLife
September 11, 2012, 09:54:36 AMNever been there, but I'll have to check it out. I think people sometimes forget how tropical Jacksonville really is because of how much development has occurred along our waterways...but virtually every undeveloped parcel along the water is covered with palms and is very tropical. From Guana River State Park to Nocatee Preserve, to the Timucuan Preserve and so on. The ocean may not be as clear up here as it is down south, but North Florida is very much old Florida in terms of landscape.
Adam W
September 11, 2012, 09:55:32 AMI think the powers-that-be in Jax are a bit design-averse. I don't know why, but I think it's maybe fear of having another Hayden Burns Library. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely adore the building. But it's loathed by probably as many people (if not more) as those who love it. And I think it's loathed by many of those whose opinions "matter."
I remember when the new library was being designed. I think there were three or four (or possibly five) final designs to choose from. A couple of them were amazing. I recall one design was by a Scandinavian (or possibly Finnish or Icelandic) architect. There was also a Michael Graves design, which I didn't like, but his name stuck out because he had a range of housewares at Target at the time.
Anyway, instead of choosing an interesting (or daring) design, the City went with the safe route. I love the new library and think it's a great place. But I wish it was more interesting and made more of a statement. We have a lot of empty space downtown. It's practically a blank canvas. We could build some great buildings and put the City on the map for that alone.
So it doesn't surprise me they went with a boring design for that bridge. On the other hand, I'm should just be happy they built it! I love the northbank riverwalk.
vicupstate
September 11, 2012, 10:08:21 AMCertain Palms are indeed native, but not some of the varieties that are used as 'decoration' along Riverside Ave in Brooklyn and other places, for instance.
Regardless, we are talking about an urban setting in a very hot climate, so the native trees that will provide shade should be used whenever possible.
Captain Zissou
September 11, 2012, 10:18:34 AMDee Dot is a private property, but there are lovely pictures of it in the intuition tap room. I may have to go by there this weekend for some 'research' of old FL.
Ocklawaha
September 11, 2012, 10:25:38 AMActually most of downtown is on quite a large sandhill so the oaks are native.
CityLife
September 11, 2012, 10:38:00 AMhttp://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-02-03/story/greatest_generation_of_trees_fading_in_jacksonville
Soon after World War II, a sea of oaks spread across Jacksonville's neighborhoods.
"Victory trees" handed out by a utility shaded sidewalks and yards from Avondale to Springfield and San Marco.
Now, those trees are dying of old age.
"They turned out to be water oaks or laurel oaks," said Anna Dooley, executive director for Greenscape of Jacksonville, a beautification group. "They have about a 60-year lifespan, which is where we are."
fsujax
September 11, 2012, 10:58:29 AMyes, they are rotting all over springfield, riverside-avondale and sadly this is what was mostly planted in Hemming Park. There is one large live oak at Hemming, though.
goldy21
September 11, 2012, 11:35:52 AMI just moved back to Denver from Jax. I grew up in Denver and am still amazed by the progress this town has made. The transit projects alone are changing the urban landscape and definitely promoting urban infill. Thrilled to be back.
finehoe
September 11, 2012, 11:53:10 AMOne rarely sees the turkey oaks mentioned in your article planted as ornamental trees, they are almost always live oaks or laurel oaks.
As far as the palms, there are a number of species native to the area, but the one most widely (and over) planted is the Sabal Palm. However, as the climate warms, many species formerly associated with South Florida will be able to be grown here.
simms3
September 11, 2012, 12:30:08 PMCities in the South that are really leading the way with public landscaping and requirements of landlords to integrate landscaping/pedestrian experiential improvements into their footprints include Charlotte, Greenville, Raleigh and Atlanta, Jacksonville leaders need only take a 6-7 hour drive to learn from really good examples in this arena. 8 months of the year up here there are flowers blooming everywhere. Details from a recent $6M project on a corridor downtown that finished in April:
Keith-N-Jax
September 11, 2012, 12:37:52 PMSouth Florida native palms would not even survive the winter here in Jax!
simms3
September 11, 2012, 12:52:29 PMMight I add that a mere thousands spent by the downtown BID to install planters in wrought iron beds along the street on a heavily trafficed and pedestrian intense corridor has killed many birds with one stone:
1) separated vehicular/bicycle traffic and pedestrian traffic by more than just curbs
1a) protected both vehicles/bikes and pedestrians by discouraging/preventing J-walking
2) improved the aesthetics of a dense/concrete area
3) made the corridor more attractive to tourists/visitors who may only see that area on their stay
4) made the corridor more attractive to local residents, workers and current/new retailers (which include CVS and Jos. A Bank)
5) made it easier for landlords and developers to push their projects and attract tenants
5a) higher rents/increased occupancy/higher pricing can only boost the tax rolls
Again easy peasy stuff for Jacksonville simply to consider and copy, but it won't.
fieldafm
September 11, 2012, 01:04:40 PMDowntown already has a special taxing district. Those funds however are often rolled into the general fund to make up for deficits elsewhere. It doesn't need another taxing district. Downtown business owners are already going to absorb a significant increase in garbage collection fees starting in October.
Some of the fees currently levied, collected and distributed do need to be administered in a more fair way.
simms3
September 11, 2012, 02:26:36 PM^^^Well that defeats the whole purpose of a special taxing district now doesn't it?
So what you're telling me is that all the great things done in Denver and replicated to a degree in close by southeastern cities can't be done in Jacksonville?
What's the website for the oganization that runs the BID/CID for downtown Jacksonville?
Ocklawaha
September 11, 2012, 11:05:07 PMIt's well past time for a massive 'Better Jacksonville II,' plan to extend the tax and add a new layer. I'd peddle it with a few fixes on roads such as Blanding, the JTB flyover, etc. simply enough to kill opposition from the 'hug your car right wing'. Then focus the bulk of the improvements on fixed mass transit, streetcar, commuter rail, aerial cable tram, bus rapid transit, JRTC, a vastly improved JTA bus system, adding ticket vending machines, real time information at larger stops, and next bus I-phone/android apps. The other major investment would be in the river walks extensions and huge public QOL additions.
vicupstate
September 12, 2012, 08:39:53 AMYou're right, but the BJP I already takes the revenue for the next 12 or so years, if I remember correctly. Plus the voters would never approve it. The perception is that millions have been spent on transit, which only poor people use and to no benefit of the other 90% of the population. Likewise, the perception is milions have already been spent Downtown, which little to nothing to show for it. Plus all the GOBs would profit from it.
There's no leadershp or trust in the local government. That is a prerequsite to passage.
climber
September 12, 2012, 01:55:53 PMIm a recent transplant in Denver from Jax, where i grew up. I have to say, the comparison between the two cities is night and day. In Denver, you have an environment of constant growth and development aimed at making the city better and more attractive for businesses and individuals (ex- the large scale expansion of b-cycle, light rail, and the Union Station development, which is already 60% done). I live downtown and take the 16th street mall bus to work, and can walk to so many restaurants and bars and football or baseball games, along with tons of other like-minded people. In Jacksonville, my friends and i tried to go from 5 points to the Beer Fest next to the suns stadium using public transportation, which was literally impossible per the jta website. Another case in point- in Denver we have an historic trolley that runs to and from REI along the platte to the stadium during Broncos games for free. Jacksonville, are you listening?...I didn't think so.