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Solving JTA's BRT North Corridor Funding Dilemma

Metro Jacksonville takes a closer look at JTA's $21.3 million plan for BRT along Lem Turner Road and presents an affordable alternative to get the ball rolling.

Published March 1, 2011 in Transit      55 Comments    Open printer friendly version of this article Print Article

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About The BRT North Corridor Plan



The proposed BRT North Corridor Project would be a 9.28-mile alignment on existing surface streets and predominantly within existing right-of-way, connecting Downtown Jacksonville with Walmart at Lem Turner Road and Interstate 295.  Of this length, 7.06 miles would be on mixed use lanes and 2.22 miles on exclusive bus-only lanes.  A total of approximately 0.35 acres of right-of-way may be required in station areas where right-of-way is limited.

Construction is anticipated to begin in 2013 and finish in 2014 at a cost of $21.3 million or $2.30 million/mile. System characteristics include:

- 10 to 15 minute headways

- Dedicated bus-only lanes

- New low floor vehicles

- Substantial and branded transit stations or stops

- Transit signal priority

- Real-time travel information

JTA believes that these improvements will result in lower travel times, greater schedule reliability, easier transfers, shorter wait times, greater customer satisfaction, improved pedestrian features, and increased system operating efficiencies.



JTA's Dilemma

JTA is seeking federal dollars because they do not have the money needed to make this $21.3 million plan a reality.  However, President Barack Obama's proposed budget for fiscal year 2012 only allocates $6.4 million, leaving a $14.9 million gap.

Quote
Northside residents hoping for improved bus service received a financial boost courtesy of President Barack Obama this week.

The president’s proposed budget for fiscal year 2012 allocates $6.4 million for bus-only lanes in North Jacksonville. The lanes would run in both directions from the Rosa Parks Transfer Station downtown on State Street along Boulevard Street to Golfair Boulevard, then along Brentwood Avenue, continuing north along Norwood Avenue/Lem Turner Road before ending at the Walmart Supercenter just south of Interstate 295.

Construction is scheduled to begin in 2013 and finish in 2014 at a cost of $21.3 million. The Jacksonville Transportation Authority is still looking for more funding opportunities at the state and federal level to offset the $14.9 million it now has to pay, spokeswoman Wendy Morrow  said.
full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-02-15/story/obama’s-proposed-budget-includes-64-million-bus-only-lanes-jacksonville



Metro Jacksonville's Affordable BRT Alternative: Trimming The Fat


Metro Jacksonville's BRT alternative is an affordable solution that establishes the basic components of BRT without investing $22 million or requiring additional federal assistance to do so.

Metro Jacksonville believes BRT can be implemented at a significantly less cost than JTA's proposal.  Here are a few suggestion to help trim the fat.



Transit Signal Priority (TSP)


TSP along Cleveland's Health Line BRT Corridor

1. What is Transit Signal Priority

Quote
Bus priority or transit signal priority is a name for various techniques to speed up bus public transport services at intersections (or junctions) with traffic signals. Buses normally signal their impending arrival (for example via radio systems) and on their arrival at the intersection receive green lights. This is often combined with separate bus lanes, though possibly this may only apply at the intersections themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_priority


Why it is not needed along the North Corridor

Transit Signal Priority techniques are best implemented along congested thoroughfares.  However, traffic along the majority of the North Corridor's chosen route flows smoothly at a Level of Service (LOS) B and C.  While there are limited hot spots, such as the Lem Turner Road/Edgewood Avenue intersection, TSP may be something that is not a necessity for providing reliable bus service along this corridor.  In addition, the City of Jacksonville's draft of the 2030 Mobility Plan includes road infrastructure projects intended to relieve the isolated congestion points along the corridor.  



2. Real-Time Passenger Information


An enhanced bus shelter (renamed transit station by BRT proponents) with Real-time information along the Kansas City MAX's route.

What is Real-Time Passenger Information?

Quote
A passenger information [display] system (PIDS) is an electronic information system which provides real-time passenger information. It may include both predictions about arrival and departure times, as well as information about the nature and causes of disruptions. It may be used both physically within a transportation hub and remotely using a web browser or mobile device.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_information_system


Why it is not a necessity along the North Corridor

According to JTA's plans, buses along the North Corridor will arrive at stops every 10-15 minutes.  At that rate, the frequency of service is strong enough for riders to know that the next bus will be arriving very soon.  This makes the immediate need for real-time passenger information a desire rather than necessity.  Without real-time information, the cost of shelters can be reduced significantly.  In addition, if JTA can get their shelter advertising program worked out, the entire cost of shelters (transit stations) can be provided by the private sector, completely eliminating the burden of this expense on the taxpayer.


Recently installed JTA bus shelter at Main & Bay Streets. While enhanced bus shelters with Real-time information would be great, a bus shelter with a system map that protects riders from the sun and rain will suffice.  Considering a corridor like Philips would be attractive for advertising companies, the cost for these shelters could be financed by the private sector.



3. New Buses


New "branded" buses, as shown above, were a significant expenditure in the implementation of the Kansas City MAX BRT corridor.

The purchase of new bus vehicles could make up as much as 40% of the overall capital cost for this $21.3 million BRT corridor.  


Why aren't new buses needed along the North Corridor?

Maybe its time to better utilize the funds and resources that we do have before asking for more funding?  Recently, it was announced that JTA will be awarded a $4 million grant to purchase eight hybrid buses.

Quote
JTA wins $4 million federal grant for eight hybrid buses

Submitted by Larry Hannan on February 17, 2011 - 12:10pm

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority has won a $4 million grant that will allow it to purchase eight hybrid buses.

These will be the first hybrid buses in JTA's fleet, and are expected to be on the road sometime in 2012. It's estimated that these eight buses will save about 27,000 gallons of fuel per year, about 3,375 gallons per bus.

The buses will go into the regular rotation, and will not be used for any specific route, said JTA spokeswoman Wendy Morrow.

The grant was awarded through the Clean Fuels Grant Program, which supports the United States Department of Transportation's environmental sustainability efforts.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400669/larry-hannan/2011-02-17/jta-wins-4-million-federal-grant-eight-hybrid-buses

Perhaps JTA should reconsider their plans to use eight new hybrid buses in the regular rotation instead of a specific route.  With a desire to "brand" or set apart BRT from the rest of JTA's fleet, it would seem using these new hybrid buses for BRT only would help achieve that goal.


Look familiar?  Same bus (as the Kansas City MAX BRT), different color.  Instead of spending millions for new buses to serve the North Corridor, we can use what we already have if its too difficult to place the new hybrid buses into BRT service.


4. Queue Jumps


A Queue Jump is similar to a regular turn lane except buses use the lane to get around stacked automobile traffic at busy intersections. Image from www.oaklandairportconnector.com

Queue jumps, or bypass lanes, allow buses to move to the front of the line at traffic signals.  Instead of buses lining up behind a line of cars at intersections, buses move through a bypass lane on one side of traffic.  This allows the bus to avoid any long lines of automobiles, and results in more efficient transit service and less travel delay.  On occasion, a bus-only right-lane signal may be added to allow buses to travel through the intersection before the automobiles in the adjacent lanes are permitted to proceed.


Why aren't Queue Jumps needed?

The one size fits all solution to problems works with men's tube socks, not mass transit.  Every corridor presents certain challenges.  Queue jumps would be ideal for a congested roadway such as Blanding Blvd. in Orange Park.  The majority of the North Corridor does not back up and will not be backing up anytime in the foreseeable future, making expensive Queue jumps a want instead of a true need for reliable service along this corridor.  



The drive along the path of the North corridor is a pretty smooth one.  Since there is no daily gridlock and none on the horizon, reliable frequent bus service can be established without an immediate investment in Queue Jump and Transit Signal Priority infrastructure.


5. Reliable Headways



The existing map illustrates the existing L8 bus route.

JTA currently operates the L8 bus service along the entirety of the proposed North BRT Corridor route with 15 minute headways. To save funding, time and energy, JTA should consider rebranding the existing L8 as bus rapid transit.  


How to provide reduced headways by modifying existing routes?

A look at JTA's current Northside bus routes indicates that several routes tend to parallel each other and connect to similar destinations, providing duplicate services as they flow into downtown.  Metro Jacksonville suggests taking a look at streamlining the duplication and shifting the operational savings generated to upgrade the L8 route to 10 minute headways.  The graphic below serves as a conceptual example of how sample existing bus routes could modified provide better service to the Southside destinations.


Currently, JTA's L8, L7, N6 and NS17 bus routes provide duplicate service (see highlighted area) along the North Corridor BRT route between the Ribault River and Golfair Boulevard.  This is an area where opportunities to streamline existing services can be found in an effort to improve the L8 to bonafide "BRT" status.



Conclusion

Like JTA, Metro Jacksonville would like to see reliable bus service implemented along several thoroughfares in Jacksonville, especially throughout the Northside.  However, our position is that this can be done with better utilization of existing assets, without FTA financial involvement and for far less than JTA's estimates of $21.3 million.  By utilizing these simplistic solutions with the $6.4 million in the proposed federal budget, reliable bus rapid transit can become a reality in the Northside, sooner rather than later.

Article by Ennis Davis







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55 Comments

peestandingup

March 01, 2011, 05:09:18 AM
There is SO much the current bus system needs. I don't have to go down the list, but anyone who's used it knows what they are. So I'm not sure I understand the need for using limited funds on a BRT to the north right now when we have so much that needs fixed.

I mean, most of the current stops don't even have shelters for Christ sake. Here's my stop:


It's right next to the highway with cars whizzing by just a few feet away. Nothing to tell me where the next bus is & no shelter if it comes a downpour. Oh, and there's fire ants all around it, so I have to sit on top of the backrest so my feet don't get eaten alive. Pretty pathetic.

dougskiles

March 01, 2011, 06:30:08 AM
Nice bike.

dougskiles

March 01, 2011, 07:20:16 AM
Now that I have read the article, I have a little more to comment on.

My strong distaste for BRT is beginning to subside.  In areas where we aren't duplicating an existing system (like the Skyway) or existing infrastructure (rail lines that could be commuter), it seems like the best first step is BRT.  A newer, more reliable and informative system will appeal to a larger group of people.  I haven't been terribly upset about the loss of HSR because I believe that we should be starting small.  Same can be said for the local system and the BRT seems to be the next step - in certain areas.  I still much prefer a Skyway extension to San Marco and the streetcar from Riverside to Downtown.

Quote
In addition, the City of Jacksonville's draft of the 2030 Mobility Plan includes road infrastructure projects intended to relieve the isolated congestion points along the corridor.

I am surprised that Metro Jacksonville would be rallying behind this.  Providing BRT signal priority could eliminate the need for the road infrastructure projects, could it not?  Which would cost less?  This argument seems to be made frequently in reverse on this forum.

Quote
According to JTA's plans, buses along the North Corridor will arrive at stops every 10-15 minutes.  At that rate, the frequency of service is strong enough for riders to know that the next bus will be arriving very soon.  This makes the immediate need for real-time passenger information a desire rather than necessity.

I disagree.  Having real-time information adds significantly to the ridership experience.  People who don’t have a choice but to ride the bus currently will live with it the way it is.  But if JTA is trying to attract a new group of riders, then it is exactly this kind of thing that will make them more comfortable with the system.  Knowing that the bus is 15 minutes away tells me that I may have time to do some work while I’m waiting.  If it is only 5 minutes away, then perhaps I catch up on emails.  People want to take the guesswork out.  In addition, it would allow JTA a way to tell people that perhaps the system is out of service and is more like 60 minutes delayed.  Well, I would rather know that immediately as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting.

Quote
Perhaps JTA should reconsider their plans to use eight new hybrid buses in the regular rotation instead of a specific route.  With a desire to "brand" or set apart BRT from the rest of JTA's fleet, it would seem using these new hybrid buses for BRT only would help achieve that goal.


I agree.

Quote
Queue jumps would be ideal for a congested roadway such as Blanding Blvd. in Orange Park.

I agree.  We can spend the money on the queue jumps when the area gets congested enough that the expense can be justified.

The BRT Southeast Corridor meeting is March 10th from 4:30 pm to 7:00 pm at FSCJ Deerwood Center.  As I stated in the beginning, I am not opposed to BRT in general, but along the southeast corridor, we have the potential for commuter rail – which would be a much better long term investment.  Although, I suppose it will take much longer to implement.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 08:21:14 AM
A few things that I noticed in the article that I'd like to point out:

1.)  from Soutel to Gateway Station, there are already 15 minute headways with a staggering of the L7 & L8.  I was at the meeting at gateway, and the promise that they're trying to deliver with BRT is 10mins and under.  My only concern with this is BRT branded busses will only stop at designated areas, so if you're heading to or leaving from a regular stop - you're still stuck with 15 min. waits while the BRT passes you by.

2.)  the L8 is a Walmart to Walmart bus (Lem Turner to Normandy), the L7 is from Winn-Dixie on Soutel/Moncrief to the Avenues mall - both busses travel down the core of the northside, through the gateway shopping center, L8 goes through Brentwood, L7 cuts in front of Shands, and then they duplicate from Shands to Rosa Park.  With such long routes, these busses individually have 30 min. headtimes.  Add (1) additional bus to each route and you will cut those times down to 18-20 minutes for the entire route - that will also provide 7-10 minute waits through the core areas without any additional expenditure except for (2) busses & O&M.


I asked these questions at the meeting.  I put these questions down on paper.  I haven't received any response.  IMO, they can accomplish their goal for about 2M.  That would include the costs of the busses and operation for a year or two.  The only area that needs some work is Norwood, just east of 95.  The road is extremely narrow and the tracks cross right before you get to Gateway heading east.  I don't have a solution for that part. - but unless the BRT busses can jump over a train, then neither does JTA.

Lunican

March 01, 2011, 08:29:03 AM
Chicago Transit Authority has come up with a cheap way to implement bus arrival information at all their stops via text message.



http://www.transitchicago.com/riding_cta/how_to_guides/bustrackertext.aspx

They also have a version for smart phones: http://www.transitchicago.com/mobile/traintrackerarrivals.aspx?sid=41660

tufsu1

March 01, 2011, 08:30:18 AM
In order for the route to qualify for Federal New Starts funding, it has to be categorized as BRT...which means features like signal priority and real time info. are a must....without them, JTA can't access that pot of money.

btw....I assume the $6.4 million is just the first round...the project would likely get another $6 million the next year, thereby recahing the Federal 50% match....the issue is whether JTA and FDOT have the other 50%

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 08:42:50 AM
In order for the route to qualify for Federal New Starts funding, it has to be categorized as BRT...which means features like signal priority and real time info. are a must....without them, JTA can't access that pot of money.

Yes, this was also expressed at the meeting.   But.  The overall impression that I got was that they were starting this on the N. corridor because the ridership is already in place, the actual 'required' upgrades were few and the system would perform better overall.  I don't see it.  They didn't convince me - someone who does ride this corridor all the time.  If it's just a grab for cash for future projects, then so be it - but I see it as a waste of money instead as a necessary expense to get more. - if it's not broken then don't fix it. 

yapp1850

March 01, 2011, 08:52:38 AM
is the bus service in jacksonville that bad, in tampa hart is adding bus shelters every year and hart started last year text message or smart phone app.  so you know when the next bus is.

wsansewjs

March 01, 2011, 09:07:57 AM
I disagree.  Having real-time information adds significantly to the ridership experience.  People who don’t have a choice but to ride the bus currently will live with it the way it is.  But if JTA is trying to attract a new group of riders, then it is exactly this kind of thing that will make them more comfortable with the system.  Knowing that the bus is 15 minutes away tells me that I may have time to do some work while I’m waiting.  If it is only 5 minutes away, then perhaps I catch up on emails.  People want to take the guesswork out.  In addition, it would allow JTA a way to tell people that perhaps the system is out of service and is more like 60 minutes delayed.  Well, I would rather know that immediately as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting.

I totally AGREE with you on that. You guys have NO FUCKING IDEA how stressful to know and not about when the bus will be coming and trying to figure it out if going to work ON TIME is feasible. IMAGINE living through that stress EVERYDAY, worrying about the bus not showing up or being late. SO MUCH for being stress over some stupid ****ing bus.

Having a real time information system that the dedicated riders can sign up with JTA to give them a direct access (to resolve any Homeland Security bullshit). It is like the sensation when you piss in the toilet after holding it in for a long time.

I apologize for the number of cuss words I injected into the post. The number of the cuss words is a true reflection of my anger at JTA.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 09:23:10 AM
So I guess checking the schedules that are printed on leaflets and posted on-line is just too much hassle?  Little hint:  get off of facebook, go to JTAFLA.com, check the schedule, get to the stop about 5-7 minutes before it's scheduled and wait.  If it gets to be more than 5 minutes after the scheduled time, then call 630.3100 and they'll give you all the real-time info you need.

I apologize for the snarkiness, but it's a reflection of everyone's reliance on 'real-time' this and I gotta have it NOW that. 

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 09:32:05 AM
Sorry Josh - I lost it for a second.  

Not about busses, but relevant to my rant.  BITD, we were given a set of blueprints, materials and 3-4 weeks to frame a home.  Life was good.  Product was excellent.  Next we were given pagers and a roll of quarters, blueprints to 2 homes and still 3-4 weeks.  Then we had Nextels, 4 sets of incomplete prints, 3/4 of the required material and 2-3 weeks of building time.  Then came the blackberry with e-mail in the field.  The prints were posted on-line for us to get printed, sometimes the materials were ordered, sometimes they weren't, we now have 1 week, 8 houses and 4 crews of non-english speaking people to get the job done.  Life Sucks, Product is Shit.  I don't do residential construction anymore, but the process hasn't changed.  

This advent of 'technology' and 'real-time' info has completely ruined the ability for most people to communicate all of their thoughts into one meeting.  We are so ADHD as a society, that we get less done, with more errors, with more wasted steps than ever - give a guy the info he needs - ONCE, the time he actually needs to complete the task - ONCE and leave him the fuck alone and let him work.  ONCE.  You wouldn't have the issues that we have now.

stephendare

March 01, 2011, 09:36:35 AM
So I guess checking the schedules that are printed on leaflets and posted on-line is just too much hassle?  Little hint:  get off of facebook, go to JTAFLA.com, check the schedule, get to the stop about 5-7 minutes before it's scheduled and wait.  If it gets to be more than 5 minutes after the scheduled time, then call 630.3100 and they'll give you all the real-time info you need.

I apologize for the snarkiness, but it's a reflection of everyone's reliance on 'real-time' this and I gotta have it NOW that. 

Little hint:

That actually doesnt work.  The leaflets and schedules are often a month out of date and the JTA changes the routes and times so often that they are completely incorrect.

If it gets to be more than five minutes after your scheduled time, then chances are you are going to miss your next connection, and are going to be late no matter what.  And since the headways have been slowed to to between an hour and an hour and a half per bus route, you run the risk of being more than an hour late.

It takes a week to get the buses on googletransit, so that they can be checked in real time from a cellphone, JEA has known about this for at least two years.

So while snarkiness is always appreciated on this site, sometimes a little experience in the matter helps as well.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 09:42:23 AM
No thanks.   We're trying to stick to facts on this topic. 

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 09:48:15 AM
I actually agree with Non-RedNeck Westsider on this.  From what I've seen so far, I question it being necessary to spend $20-$25 million on each BRT corridor for improvements that could be made through simple operational modifications, the use of private sector shelters and better stop info (as shown in Lunican's photo).  So I guess I'm not too keen on the idea of holding reliable service hostage to coming up with $125 million in funds that when implemented, won't really provide you with anything more than you could have gotten by providing the no-frills components that makes mass transit reliable and efficient.

dougskiles

March 01, 2011, 09:51:08 AM
It takes a week to get the buses on googletransit, so that they can be checked in real time from a cellphone, JEA has known about this for at least two years.

And how much would it cost to have an information screen at each major bus stop that was receiving this information to display?  A small solar panel could be put on top of the shelter to keep the batteries charged for the display unit (and for the security camera that would be needed to keep people from stealing the solar panel and display unit).

I don't see that costing $20 million.

stephendare

March 01, 2011, 09:52:48 AM
google transit gives real time information on buses, at no cost, and simple gps units aboard the bus are all that are needed to update real time.

This is something that can be done now, without installing anything in bus stops or brt.

My point was to Redneck not understanding the problems with JTA's current non existent system of updating passengers.

stephendare

March 01, 2011, 09:54:56 AM
http://maps.google.com/help/maps/transit/partners/

Quote
New York Governor David A. Paterson said:

Google Maps for Transit is a truly innovative marriage of information and infrastructure. It is a perfect example of how the public and private sectors can partner together to benefit us all -- and it didn't cost New York taxpayers a penny. I applaud my colleagues at the MTA and Port Authority for making this a priority, and our friends at Google for continuing to make the world an easier place to navigate."

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 09:58:35 AM
Now that I have read the article, I have a little more to comment on.

My strong distaste for BRT is beginning to subside.  In areas where we aren't duplicating an existing system (like the Skyway) or existing infrastructure (rail lines that could be commuter), it seems like the best first step is BRT.  A newer, more reliable and informative system will appeal to a larger group of people.  I haven't been terribly upset about the loss of HSR because I believe that we should be starting small.  Same can be said for the local system and the BRT seems to be the next step - in certain areas.  I still much prefer a Skyway extension to San Marco and the streetcar from Riverside to Downtown.

There is nothing wrong with the concept of BRT.  What's wrong with good reliable bus service? The negative issues locally revolve around system duplication, not designing mass transit specifically to the needs of the individual environments it is intended to serve, capital costs and the idea of saying it will do what the concept was never really intended to do (ex. like spur TOD or being a building block to LRT).

Quote
Quote
In addition, the City of Jacksonville's draft of the 2030 Mobility Plan includes road infrastructure projects intended to relieve the isolated congestion points along the corridor.

I am surprised that Metro Jacksonville would be rallying behind this.  Providing BRT signal priority could eliminate the need for the road infrastructure projects, could it not?  Which would cost less?  This argument seems to be made frequently in reverse on this forum.

All road projects should not be considered bad.  In many cases, regardless of the mass transit investment, you still need sidewalks, bike facilities and lighting.  These are all things that can be included as a part of road infrastructure upgrades.  The key is to make sure your road projects are complete streets oriented.

Quote
Quote
According to JTA's plans, buses along the North Corridor will arrive at stops every 10-15 minutes.  At that rate, the frequency of service is strong enough for riders to know that the next bus will be arriving very soon.  This makes the immediate need for real-time passenger information a desire rather than necessity.

I disagree.  Having real-time information adds significantly to the ridership experience.  People who don’t have a choice but to ride the bus currently will live with it the way it is.  But if JTA is trying to attract a new group of riders, then it is exactly this kind of thing that will make them more comfortable with the system.  Knowing that the bus is 15 minutes away tells me that I may have time to do some work while I’m waiting.  If it is only 5 minutes away, then perhaps I catch up on emails.  People want to take the guesswork out.  In addition, it would allow JTA a way to tell people that perhaps the system is out of service and is more like 60 minutes delayed.  Well, I would rather know that immediately as opposed to waiting and waiting and waiting.

Is this worth waiting to we have $22 million to modify service in this corridor to make it reliable and easy to use for the end user.  My position is that it is not.  Why not strive to have reliable bus service and add elements like this as the opportunity arises in the future?

wsansewjs

March 01, 2011, 09:58:41 AM
If it gets to be more than five minutes after your scheduled time, then chances are you are going to miss your next connection, and are going to be late no matter what.  And since the headways have been slowed to to between an hour and an hour and a half per bus route, you run the risk of being more than an hour late.

You just took the words out of my mouth. That is the very reason why I have to STRESS so much about being on time to work. I can't drive due to my progressive blindness. I would have to use the city buses if the JTA connexion can't take me to certain area because I am not "eligible enough" such as ADA certification bullshit. JTA and transit issues are my biggest reason and it is responsible for my involvement in this beloved community, MetroJacksonville.com.

-Josh

stephendare

March 01, 2011, 10:00:24 AM
Google even has an idiot proof guide on adding the schedules to Google Transit.
http://maps.google.com/help/maps/transit/partners/participate.html

Adding your transit agency to Googletransit

Quote
Currently over 500 cities world wide make their information available in Google Maps. For the complete coverage, please visit www.google.com/transit.

If you provide a transportation service that is open to the public, and operates with fixed schedules and routes, we welcome your participation - it is simple and free.

Process

   1. Prepare a data feed according to General Transit Feed Specification and Best Practices document.
   2. Validate the feed using the Feed Validator.
   3. Inspect the feed in Schedule Viewer.
   4. Zip the files in your feed. Name the zip file google_transit.zip.
   5. Host the feed on a web server for Google to fetch. We support both HTTP and HTTPS.
   6. Contact the Google Transit team to sign-up for the partnership
   7. Google will be in touch to setup a private preview and have the agency complete an online agreement before launch.
   8. Agency will test the data in the private preview until the result is satisfactory.
   9. Launch!

Tools

Create a data feed

There are many ways for an agency to create a feed. Many agencies have created their own program to export the data based on General Transit Feed Specification. There are some useful tools that may help you create a Transit feed more easily:

    * If you would like to use a spreadsheet to create the feed, there is an open source tool developed by Bob Heitzman from San Luis Obispo County. Full details is listed in a Google Groups discussion.
    * If your agency uses schedule software such as Trapeze FX or GIRO HASTUS, your vendor may have an interface that helps you to export the data. Please contact them for details.
    * Sign up to our agency user group to learn know-hows from your fellow agencies.

Locate stops

If you do not know the geo coordinates of your stops, you can download Google Earth, which shows the geo coordinates of every point on earth.

Validate the data feed:

Providing high quality data feed is critical. Google has created a few open source tools to help agencies to check the feed quality.

    * Feed Validator: this tool should be used to check the feed format. No feed should be submitted to Google until it is free of format errors.
    * Schedule Viewer: this tool helps agencies to visualize every route and stops in Google Maps. Agencies should use it to systematically check every route for stop locations, stop sequence, vehicle speed, and other important issues. Please refer to the document for details.
    * Test in Google Maps: once Google accepts the Transit feed, Google will build a private preview for the agency to test. Since the agency knows the area the best, it is important that the agency thoroughly test the routes such as the most popular routes, and routes in holidays or weekends. Google will not launch the data until the agency confirms the quality, signs an online agreement, and the feed has passed Google engineer's inspection.

Host a Feed

Please follow these guidelines when hosting your GTFS feed.

    * Place the feed in a directory that will always keep the same name, for example, http://myserver.agency.com/current/google_transit.zip.
    * Enable directory listing on the directory where you host the feed file. The feed should be the only file in the directory.
    * To change or update the feed, replace the old google_transit.zip with a new google_transit.zip. The new data will completely overwrite your old data. As a result, please ensure that your new feed has complete data as of the posting date. For example, if you post a new dataset on 12-8, the data must have service as of 12-8. This may require you to use our merge utility.
    * Your IT/Networking teams should know that Google Maps periodically fetches transit feed data from the location that you specify, so that they do not change file permissions for your feed or otherwise block or break the data fetching process.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 10:01:12 AM
My point was to Redneck not understanding the problems with JTA's current non existent system of updating passengers.

Community ShuttlesCommuter ShuttleConnexionExpress RoutesHoliday SchedulesInter-County ShuttleRegular Bus ServicesRide RequestRide to ReadSkywayStadium Shuttle ServiceSystem MapTrolleyBus Schedules
Schedules are current even though the effective date may not reflect the current year or month.

Certain schedules are also available in PDF Format .
 ( Acrobat Reader required)


Purchase online bus or shuttle passes here.

ARLINGTON/BEACHES
AR6 University Park / Regency
AR7 Atlantic / Monument
X2 Beaches Express
Arlington Community Shuttle
Beaches Community Shuttle

CROSSTOWN
CT1 FSCJ North / Main Street/Mandarin
CT2 Townsend / Phoenix
CT3 Air JTA / Powers
CT4 Atlantic Village / Amtrak

INTERLINER SERVICE
B7 Commonwealth / Baymeadows
F1 Florida / Broadway / Detroit
K2 Grand Park / Amtrak / Beach Blvd.
L7 Soutel / The Avenues
L8 Lem Turner / Ramona
L9 Tallulah / Southpoint
P4 Myrtle Ave. / Roosevelt / 103rd.
R5 FSCJ Kent / Regency / FSCJ South Campus / UNF / Town Center

NORTHSIDE
CT1 FSCJ North / Main Street / Mandarin
CT3 Air JTA / Powers
M5 Moncrief B
N6 Sherwood
NS19 Avenue B / River City Marketplace
Highlands Ride Request
Oceanway Ride Request
Dinsmore - River City Marketplace Community Shuttle 
Golfbrook Community Shuttle   
Edgewood Community Shuttle
Northside Community Shuttle

SOUTHSIDE
CT1 FSCJ North / Main Street / Mandarin
CT2 Townsend / Phoenix
CT3 Air JTA / Powers
CT4 Atlantic Village / Amtrak
S1 Regency / The Avenues
SS6 Beach Blvd. / Town Center / UNF
SS8 Spring Park / San Souci
SS35 Sunbeam / Old St. Augustine
SS50 Mandarin Express
U2 University Boulevard Connector
Mandarin Community Shuttle

WESTSIDE
B9 Beaver / Lane
P3 Ernest / Jammes
P4 Myrtle Ave. / Roosevelt / 103rd
WS2 Blanding / Orange Park
WS6 Stockton / Wilson
WS7 Normandy
WS12 Murray Hill / Edgewood
WS91 Westside / Flagler Express
X4 Orange Park Express
Baldwin Commuter Shuttle
Cecil Community Shuttle
NAS - Ortega Community Shuttle

MIDTOWN
Talleyrand Community Shuttle

EXPRESS ROUTES
SS50 Mandarin Express
WS91 Westside / Flagler Center Express
X2 Beaches Express
X4 Orange Park Express
WS52 Blanding Express


Un-F-Ing believable - Every bus route has it's own downloadable schedule.  Hmm, who whould of thought.  PDF format also!

I guess you finally gave up with BT on the WI issues?  Go back to politics.  You don't need to know anything factual to debate there, just som wiki-references.

 I ride the system 4-5 days a week - so I think that puts me in a slightly better position to know what's happening.  I attended the BRT meeting a few weeks ago.  Didn't see you there.  Nuff said.

stephendare

March 01, 2011, 10:24:00 AM
My point was to Redneck not understanding the problems with JTA's current non existent system of updating passengers.

Un-F-Ing believable - Every bus route has it's own downloadable schedule.  Hmm, who whould of thought.  PDF format also!

I guess you finally gave up with BT on the WI issues?  Go back to politics.  You don't need to know anything factual to debate there, just som wiki-references.

 I ride the system 4-5 days a week - so I think that puts me in a slightly better position to know what's happening.  I attended the BRT meeting a few weeks ago.  Didn't see you there.  Nuff said.


Are you serious?  

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,2629.0.html
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-long-days-journey-into-plight-stephen-dare-goes-jta-
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-long-days-journey-into-plight-stephen-dare-jta-2

After these articles, I actually decided to reduce my own personal carbon footprint and got rid of my cars.  Not out of any confidence in the JTA's ability to deliver transit (obviously) but because I truly think that its irresponsible not to start taking personal steps to carbon reduction if you are aware that climate change is happening.  I now either walk, ride the buses or carpool everywhere I go.  Which Ive been doing for a couple of years, not just on one bus route to and from work.

So, while I wasnt at the BRT meeting that you went to, Westside, I have been to a number of meetings that you havent been to, and I don't know if you realize this or not, but besides hosting a place for you to talk about the importance of right wing disaster policies on the pages of our members view only political pages, this website has been transit focused for about five years, and is always a component of our weekly board meetings as well as our weekly public meetings.

Ive spoken with every single planner and most of the administration of the JTA pretty extensively on the subject (as has the rest of the MJ board) for the past four years, and am a pretty well known sight on the buses.

Not pointing this out to be a dick, but since you were being a dick first by sidetracking onto who was more qualified to talk about buses, I thought you should know this before you embarrass yourself further---since almost all the other posters already do. I actually ride the bus all the time, sometimes 8 routes in a day.

Now, both wsansewjs and I have the same experience of JTA's reliability, so while you are usually quite eager to point out how brilliant by comparison you are as a result of the hidden mastery of commonsense techniques, Im afraid that even in a simple straw poll, you are outnumbered as you the actual experience on this one.

exnewsman

March 01, 2011, 10:26:33 AM
I'm wondering how JTA would be received if it scaled back its service to fewer routes in fewer areas and concentrated on more frequency for those routes. Something like 5 min or 10 min headways on all major high ridership routes. I see a problem in Jacksonville, with its size and geographic limitations, taht everyone wants the same quality service regardless of where they live and the number of riders in that area.

There is a finite amount of money to work with when it comes to transit or anythign else. So I ask is it better to give a smaller group better service or have less quality service for a larger group? I just asking.

As to BRT - I agree that real time information is a feature that should be included as it significantly enhances the passenger experiences and it will provide riders with critical data that will reduce stress (as one poster suggested). I think that JTA must have immediate success with BRT out of the box and the North corridor provides the best opportunity for that. Otherwise the outcry will be loud to kill the rest of the BRT projects.

urbaknight

March 01, 2011, 10:37:41 AM
If the BRT is heading north, why do they not link the line with the airport. Or does the city what the airport to be like amshack?

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 10:48:00 AM
I'm wondering how JTA would be received if it scaled back its service to fewer routes in fewer areas and concentrated on more frequency for those routes. Something like 5 min or 10 min headways on all major high ridership routes. I see a problem in Jacksonville, with its size and geographic limitations, that everyone wants the same quality service regardless of where they live and the number of riders in that area.

There is a finite amount of money to work with when it comes to transit or anything else. So I ask is it better to give a smaller group better service or have less quality service for a larger group? I just asking.

I believe this is the way to go.  Jacksonville is a county (as far as land area goes).  Instead of spreading our resources to thin initially, its better to work within the urban context that supports mass transit use.  Once a viable base system is established, then look to expand out into areas that (once again) have the ability to support mass transit.

Quote
As to BRT - I agree that real time information is a feature that should be included as it significantly enhances the passenger experiences and it will provide riders with critical data that will reduce stress (as one poster suggested). I think that JTA must have immediate success with BRT out of the box and the North corridor provides the best opportunity for that. Otherwise the outcry will be loud to kill the rest of the BRT projects.

I'd openly question if all the BRT corridors are really worth pursuing.  The SE and SW corridors are highly debateable and a chunk of the DT proposal duplicates the skyway.  I'd also question (as I have in this thread), should we be waiting for a $21 million handout in a corridor like this before making improvements.  We can cut down that $21 million price tag buy getting creative on an operational level, bus investment (this is probably 40-50% the cost of BRT alone) and with our existing funding mechanisms.  I believe this must be done because 2017 is quickly approaching.  If JTA doesn't figure this stuff out and get at least one decent service developed that they can point to as a mass transit success, they may lose that gas tax money.

wsansewjs

March 01, 2011, 10:52:06 AM
My point was to Redneck not understanding the problems with JTA's current non existent system of updating passengers.

Community ShuttlesCommuter ShuttleConnexionExpress RoutesHoliday SchedulesInter-County ShuttleRegular Bus ServicesRide RequestRide to ReadSkywayStadium Shuttle ServiceSystem MapTrolleyBus Schedules
Schedules are current even though the effective date may not reflect the current year or month.

Certain schedules are also available in PDF Format .
 ( Acrobat Reader required)


Purchase online bus or shuttle passes here.

ARLINGTON/BEACHES
AR6 University Park / Regency
AR7 Atlantic / Monument
X2 Beaches Express
Arlington Community Shuttle
Beaches Community Shuttle

CROSSTOWN
CT1 FSCJ North / Main Street/Mandarin
CT2 Townsend / Phoenix
CT3 Air JTA / Powers
CT4 Atlantic Village / Amtrak

INTERLINER SERVICE
B7 Commonwealth / Baymeadows
F1 Florida / Broadway / Detroit
K2 Grand Park / Amtrak / Beach Blvd.
L7 Soutel / The Avenues
L8 Lem Turner / Ramona
L9 Tallulah / Southpoint
P4 Myrtle Ave. / Roosevelt / 103rd.
R5 FSCJ Kent / Regency / FSCJ South Campus / UNF / Town Center

NORTHSIDE
CT1 FSCJ North / Main Street / Mandarin
CT3 Air JTA / Powers
M5 Moncrief B
N6 Sherwood
NS19 Avenue B / River City Marketplace
Highlands Ride Request
Oceanway Ride Request
Dinsmore - River City Marketplace Community Shuttle 
Golfbrook Community Shuttle   
Edgewood Community Shuttle
Northside Community Shuttle

SOUTHSIDE
CT1 FSCJ North / Main Street / Mandarin
CT2 Townsend / Phoenix
CT3 Air JTA / Powers
CT4 Atlantic Village / Amtrak
S1 Regency / The Avenues
SS6 Beach Blvd. / Town Center / UNF
SS8 Spring Park / San Souci
SS35 Sunbeam / Old St. Augustine
SS50 Mandarin Express
U2 University Boulevard Connector
Mandarin Community Shuttle

WESTSIDE
B9 Beaver / Lane
P3 Ernest / Jammes
P4 Myrtle Ave. / Roosevelt / 103rd
WS2 Blanding / Orange Park
WS6 Stockton / Wilson
WS7 Normandy
WS12 Murray Hill / Edgewood
WS91 Westside / Flagler Express
X4 Orange Park Express
Baldwin Commuter Shuttle
Cecil Community Shuttle
NAS - Ortega Community Shuttle

MIDTOWN
Talleyrand Community Shuttle

EXPRESS ROUTES
SS50 Mandarin Express
WS91 Westside / Flagler Center Express
X2 Beaches Express
X4 Orange Park Express
WS52 Blanding Express

Un-F-Ing believable - Every bus route has it's own downloadable schedule.  Hmm, who whould of thought.  PDF format also!

I guess you finally gave up with BT on the WI issues?  Go back to politics.  You don't need to know anything factual to debate there, just som wiki-references.

I ride the system 4-5 days a week - so I think that puts me in a slightly better position to know what's happening.  I attended the BRT meeting a few weeks ago.  Didn't see you there.  Nuff said.

I always carry my printed copies of the bus routes in my bag all the time. 99% of the time, they are useless, because the intended times were never accurate. You should known already that Jacksonville is full of cars, which affects the buses performance and its migration through the sprawling roaring traffic.

Having a real-time update of the system would relief the stress upon the bus riders, put less pressure on the JTA phone line to assist other customers for specific reasons, and the best of all, we all live in the 21st century where the technology is ready to be harvested, having real-time information to the riders that allows more feedback to the transit agency to improve their system's accuracy and consistency. I can go on all day of how dynamic and fluid a force can be reckon upon another force that changes everything in real-time.

For the workshops, I never attended them because the arrangement doesn't allow me due to my personal priorities. Another good reason why I don't attend the workshops because the time to get there and back home combined takes longer THAN the duration of the workshop itself. Seriously, HOLY FUCK, that is pretty pathetic for a transit system like that.

-Josh

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 11:01:42 AM
L8 - NB

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 11:13:08 AM
Quote
Having a real-time update of the system would relief the stress upon the bus riders, put less pressure on the JTA phone line to assist other customers for specific reasons, and the best of all, we all live in the 21st century where the technology is ready to be harvested, having real-time information to the riders that allows more feedback to the transit agency to improve their system's accuracy and consistency.

I agree.  However, should we not make any improvements until we have $21 million to invest in BRT, as proposed?  Or could we get away with the Chicago option as a short term improvement and take advantage of other creative financing and operational improvements to drop the overall cost (dropping the overall cost would make it easier financially to invest in frills such as RTI)?

stephendare

March 01, 2011, 11:15:02 AM
Why would we spend 20 million on real time information that is free on google transit?

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 11:15:20 AM
L7 - NB

peestandingup

March 01, 2011, 11:19:01 AM
My point was to Redneck not understanding the problems with JTA's current non existent system of updating passengers.
Un-F-Ing believable - Every bus route has it's own downloadable schedule.  Hmm, who whould of thought.  PDF format also!

I guess you finally gave up with BT on the WI issues?  Go back to politics.  You don't need to know anything factual to debate there, just som wiki-references.

 I ride the system 4-5 days a week - so I think that puts me in a slightly better position to know what's happening.  I attended the BRT meeting a few weeks ago.  Didn't see you there.  Nuff said.

Dude, c'mon. You must have awesome luck because my bus is early ALL THE TIME. A lot of times I bike to the bus stop, sit there for 10-15 minutes, only to realize it has already ran. Guess that'll be another hour I'll sit here in the middle of nowhere in the rain with ants crawling up my legs waiting for the next one, durrr. Yeah, I dont think so.

Transit, all transit, needs at least a real time location system of some kind. Every decent city does it, its not expensive & it isnt rocket science. This is Transportation 101. I could give each one of these drivers a cheap ass modern cell phone with a GPS chip in it & get this done in an afternoon, and Im not even joking. And it doesnt even have to be that. I dont care if its an online browser based system, a phone app, old school text messages, an LCD sign at the stop, hell, a damn dry erase board at each stop. DO SOMETHING.

This should have been done years ago & its an embarrassment. End of story, so please drop it already & stop trying to make people feel like idiots for bringing it up. This is one of those things thats simply not up for discussion.

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 11:35:49 AM
For what its worth.....

Random BRT basic investment costs (not including cost of new buses):

$500,000 per mile - Street Improvements

$450,000 per station - Station Costs (Including amenities such as Real Time Information)

$25,000 per signal - Traffic Signal Upgrade (for Traffic Signal Priority)

http://www.kimley-horn.com/Projects/fasttrackfresnocounty/downloads/PTIS/KHA/City%20Council%20Prsnt/Fresno%20BRT%20Final%20Presentation%20(8-26-08).pdf

wsansewjs

March 01, 2011, 12:07:29 PM
Why would we spend 20 million on real time information that is free on google transit?

The JTA website is poorly managed. Whoever behind the website has no far insight into web technology. I am a full-time web developer / designer for a local design company. I can give a full list of major flaws in a heartbeat to the web developer of the JTA website.

I can personally create an app for iPhone and Android phones that would use the Google's Map Transit Function especially IF the goddamn fucking idiots at JTA can bobble their heads together and take advantage of the free technological opportunity.

fieldafm

March 01, 2011, 12:41:12 PM
The Southeast and DT BRT service is a wasteful duplication of services as they mirror existing fixed transit(Skyway) or future fixed transit(commuter rail).  Furthermore, DT is already served by regular bus service and several PCT trolley routes.  The boondoggle of duplication is enough to make your head spin.

I was at the BRT meeting and I believe BRT service in this corridor is truly needed.  I have the picture at home, but there was a map that showed the significant amount of the population in this corridor that relies on mass transit to get to/from work.  The city needs to provide frequent, reliable service to these neighborhoods.

That being said, Lake asked about how many queue jumps were going to be used in the plan to which the reply was 'none at all'.  So he point blank asked 'where is all the money being used on'  After a blank stare and a moment of consultation with other JTA employees we finally received an answer that had something to do with ROW aquisition.  I pointed to the map and asked where the ROW aquisitions will be and the answer was 'not very much at all, just along this portion here'. 

It was clear then, BRT service in this corridor was a means to buy new buses and much less to do with reliable service.


Quote
However, should we not make any improvements until we have $21 million to invest in BRT, as proposed?  Or could we get away with the Chicago option as a short term improvement and take advantage of other creative financing and operational improvements to drop the overall cost (dropping the overall cost would make it easier financially to invest in frills such as RTI)?

This pretty much sums it up. 

Adding simple free technology to your route system along with combining routes and increasing headways by adding one to two busses along key corridors would greatly enhance not only the end user experience but also reduce operational costs.  This would free up JTA to go out and find money for fixed transit, improving existing roadways and creating a city-wide bicycle network.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 12:44:40 PM
I want to take a few steps back and apologize to Lake for assisting in hijacking his thread.  My bad. 

BRT - North Corridor - seems an un-godly expense without any real payoff - in either new ridership, better service or any real improvements to the area.  As mentioned before, it seems that they are using an established route with good ridership, throwing some new branded busses, stations and some un-needed tech into something in order to 'prove' that BRT is a good thing.  You're already pretty, you don't need to dress like a whore for attention.

If this were 'free' money from the Feds that would be given away anyhow - like the HSR deal, then I wouldn't be as opposed, but the fact that we are putting up the starter money to get something on the back-end is ludicrous.  1 more bus on both the L7 & the L8 would be a great improvement.  Spend the other money tagged for this project getting more reliable services in other areas - Josh's for instance. 

Signal Priority - isn't this the same tech that would be used not only by JTA, but EMS, JSO, JFRD etc?   If it is, then it's an expenditure that should be considered, but not JUST for BRT.

And if the busses were running sub 10-minute headways, then I don't think that 'real-time' updates are necessary at all.  The google thing is for another thread on inadaquacies.  I can see where RT updates would be usefull at major hubs - Gateway, Kent Campus, Regency Mall, etc. but it seems to be a waste at your regular joe stops.  Does the scroll on the Skyway make you feel better knowing that the train ;) will be arriving in 6 minutes?  Not to me,.  I still have to sit there and wait.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 12:48:56 PM
I pointed to the map and asked where the ROW aquisitions will be and the answer was 'not very much at all, just along this portion here'.

I believe that ROW was behind the Gateway station along 95 - it would allow the busses to enter and exit from another direction and alleviate some of the congestion at Norwood & 44th. 

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 01:11:23 PM
My memory is a little fuzzy right now but I believe the consultant mentioned it being somewhere between Soutel and Edgewood area.  The Gateway land is a part of another project (44th Street extension) that's also lacking funding.

http://www.jtafla.com/Projects/showPage.aspx?Project=2

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 01:14:44 PM
Quote
Signal Priority - isn't this the same tech that would be used not only by JTA, but EMS, JSO, JFRD etc?   If it is, then it's an expenditure that should be considered, but not JUST for BRT.

If so, they should be working with these groups to pool their financial resources for funding, instead of being stuck with 100% of the implementation costs.

Non-RedNeck Westsider

March 01, 2011, 01:17:29 PM
I don't know for sure, I was throwing it out there hoping somebody may have dealt with this kind of thing before.

fieldafm

March 01, 2011, 01:40:10 PM
My memory is a little fuzzy right now but I believe the consultant mentioned it being somewhere between Soutel and Edgewood area.  The Gateway land is a part of another project (44th Street extension) that's also lacking funding.

http://www.jtafla.com/Projects/showPage.aspx?Project=2

Thats exactly where it was b/c I jotted it down in my notes, and thats when she asked me if I was a reporter, lol.

BTW, I have to say I have been treated very well by most employees at JTA(except bus drivers) that I have encountered.

Bike Jax

March 01, 2011, 02:50:13 PM
If any of you have smart phones, do some searching in your app store. You will find tons of apps for transit info from maps, to realtime info for transit in every major city... except one. Yes, lowly ass Jacksonville.

JTA will not provide info needed so that the private sector will do all the work for them. I do know one individual that had several meetings with JTA to get the needed info made public but they are unwilling to release it.

Above on "What Is Bus Rapid Transit" "15 Mins headways" is a bullet pointed feature. I have traveled extensively throughout this country with nothing but my bike and bus pass for whatever city I happen to be in. 15 min headways are the norm in most major cities.

I also wish everyone would stop calling what JTA is purposing as BRT. It is not. BRT has dedicated infrastructure in the same vain as a rail system. What JTA is putting forth is little more than Prioritized Bus Transit.

I feel much better now. Thank you for listening.

dougskiles

March 01, 2011, 06:25:13 PM
Does the scroll on the Skyway make you feel better knowing that the train ;) will be arriving in 6 minutes?  Not to me,.  I still have to sit there and wait.

I like knowing how long I have to wait.  I guess it is just human nature.  Sometimes it has a message telling me that one track is closed and the wait will be 15 minutes.  In those cases, I can call the person I am meeting and let them know if I will be late.

I have no problem with the googletransit.  But if as it has been suggested that JTA really just wants the money to buy a bunch of new buses, then how much would it cost to put the real-time information at a few of the more popular stops?

I also wish everyone would stop calling what JTA is purposing as BRT. It is not. BRT has dedicated infrastructure in the same vain as a rail system. What JTA is putting forth is little more than Prioritized Bus Transit.

+1

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 07:01:26 PM
Probably around $450K for a bus stop with real time info.  If you do it, I'd suggest adding it at the major stops along the way (ex. Probably Gateway and Shands only).

dougskiles

March 01, 2011, 07:11:04 PM
$450k for the entire bus stop, right?  Please tell me that is not just for the real-time equipment.

Do you have any images of what $450k gets us at a bus stop?  Because I am having a hard time imagining what could possibly make it cost that much - regardless of what they put in.

The Southeast and DT BRT service is a wasteful duplication of services as they mirror existing fixed transit(Skyway) or future fixed transit(commuter rail).  Furthermore, DT is already served by regular bus service and several PCT trolley routes.  The boondoggle of duplication is enough to make your head spin.

Yes, those routes concern me greatly as well.  Do you plan on going to the SE BRT meeting on the 10th?

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 07:12:09 PM
BTW, this style of BRT is also called Arterial Rapid Transit (ART).

thelakelander

March 01, 2011, 07:14:42 PM
I'll post and image of what $450k gets you when I get home later tonight.

Ocklawaha

March 01, 2011, 11:09:02 PM
Actually the "real time information system," should be a revenue producer and not a line-item expense. Companies around the world are offering systems such as TRANS-LOC, offer not only the opportunity for real-time information but also for local news, weather, sports, and OH YEAH, ADVERTISING! So while your waiting, the free market is pounding cool little propaganda verses into your head in between "8:43am Southbound."

THIS SHOULDN'T COST US A THING!


OCKLAWAHA

peestandingup

March 01, 2011, 11:56:31 PM
This is retarded. How are these drivers communicating to the base? Old school walkie-talkies from the 70s?? Almost every major wireless carrier has push-to-talk smartphones for businesses. Why not get each driver a PTT Blackberry (that are basically free) that also have GPS in them, run location tracking software on the phones in the background that gets uploaded in real time on Google Maps & embed the god damn map on JTA's website???

This is ridiculously easy, dirt cheap & would help out SO MUCH. Its almost like they're TRYING to suck.

fieldafm

March 02, 2011, 09:03:49 AM
Quote
Yes, those routes concern me greatly as well.  Do you plan on going to the SE BRT meeting on the 10th?

A few of us were at the last SE BRT meeting.
I fully intend to be at this one, albeit briefly.

wsansewjs

March 02, 2011, 10:05:14 AM
This is retarded. How are these drivers communicating to the base? Old school walkie-talkies from the 70s?? Almost every major wireless carrier has push-to-talk smartphones for businesses. Why not get each driver a PTT Blackberry (that are basically free) that also have GPS in them, run location tracking software on the phones in the background that gets uploaded in real time on Google Maps & embed the god damn map on JTA's website???

This is ridiculously easy, dirt cheap & would help out SO MUCH. Its almost like they're TRYING to suck.

Do you know what their excuse for not doing that?
Homeland Security Bullshit.

-Josh

urbaknight

March 02, 2011, 04:18:32 PM
This is retarded. How are these drivers communicating to the base? Old school walkie-talkies from the 70s?? Almost every major wireless carrier has push-to-talk smartphones for businesses. Why not get each driver a PTT Blackberry (that are basically free) that also have GPS in them, run location tracking software on the phones in the background that gets uploaded in real time on Google Maps & embed the god damn map on JTA's website???

This is ridiculously easy, dirt cheap & would help out SO MUCH. Its almost like they're TRYING to suck.


We can give each driver a blackberry. (to be used responsibly during work hours) After hours, who cares what they're doing with them. This small perk can slightly offset the raise they're asking for.

CS Foltz

March 04, 2011, 12:28:20 PM
I did not see anything regarding cost per units (Bus's themselves!) Lake's figures make sense to me but question the validity of the project! From my viewpoint, just as screwy as the proposed BRT for Philips!

thelakelander

March 04, 2011, 12:37:46 PM
Depends on the type of bus and number desired to be purchased.  A single typical 40' bus could cost you as $600,000.  A 60' articulated bus could be well over $1 million.

BrSpiritus

March 04, 2011, 12:51:03 PM
I don't think JTA wants real time info systemwide because then it would become glaringly obvious how bad the whole service sucks.  I ride the CT4 downtown which is normally a 30 min headway but on sundays it's an hour?  You'd think that sunday would be a prime day for people to ride the bus to the beaches since the CT4 is a major route from Rosa Parks to Atlantic Village and a connection with the Beaches PCT but the damn fools at JTA run it every hour.  I've had the displeasure of being a slave to JTA since I moved here in August.  Don't have a car, don't want a car, can't afford a car but don't you dare mention that you ride the bus in a job interview because if you do that job just went "bye, bye".

stjr

March 04, 2011, 01:08:10 PM
As I posted elsewhere, here is what BRT is really all about:

"BRT" = "Bypassing Rail Transit" !
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