That place is a teardown.

Nicely done Paradox, I wish you woulda told me about this so I could have gone with you

That place is a teardown.

Awesome pics! My friend & I used to sneak into some of the old abandoned buildings downtown a few years ago. I remember the Carling looking very similar when we toured it before renovation. There were old patient records still in filing cabinets and some rooms looked untouched altogether. After seeing the before & after on the Carling I'm confident the Ambassador can be restored too. Here's to hoping that it will.

Okay y'all, so Lakelander, Stephendare, and I, didn't sneak in here and do this photo shoot, so I have to know, did any of the elevators have the classic folding gates on them? Are the cars still in the shafts? BTW, does ANYBODY know of a building left downtown with the classic elevators, polished brass folding gates, etc?

We used to have so many, they would sometimes have a seat for the operators... Yeah, PAID motormen and women, that would take you to your floor, help with a bag, the child, hold the car if you called... good old days.

Okay y'all, so Lakelander, Stephendare, and I, didn't sneak in here and do this photo shoot, so I have to know, did any of the elevators have the classic folding gates on them? Are the cars still in the shafts? BTW, does ANYBODY know of a building left downtown with the classic elevators, polished brass folding gates, etc?
We used to have so many, they would sometimes have a seat for the operators... Yeah, PAID motormen and women, that would take you to your floor, help with a bag, the child, hold the car if you called... good old days.
OCKLAWAHA

I hope it is a diamond in the rough and hope it can be renovated, however, judging from those pics more work needs to be done than meets the eye, and, the deterioration inside much more than I thought; looks like this will be much more than an 8 or 12 million dollar renovation/rehab/reconstruction job. The Owner or whomever will have their work cut out for them.
Great, classic photos Paradox...well done!  Question though...how the hell did you get in?  Did you break in?
Heights Unknown

Up front I must tell you I had the mis-pleasure of checking into the Ambassador Hotel in 1990, then immediately checking out after viewing my room. Back then it wasn't suitable for human inhabitants. This building was condemned for countless reasons and absolutely needs to be demolished. It cannot be renovated enough to be a safe structure for modern living. Not to mention the current codes that could never be met considering it's antiquated infrastructure. What may be next for this parcel of land should be decided between the city and any interested parties. But one thing's for sure. This building needs to go. It's not a historical building but in the minds of old men holding onto the past.

Up front I must tell you I had the mis-pleasure of checking into the Ambassador Hotel in 1990, then immediately checking out after viewing my room. Back then it wasn't suitable for human inhabitants. This building was condemned for countless reasons and absolutely needs to be demolished. It cannot be renovated enough to be a safe structure for modern living. Not to mention the current codes that could never be met considering it's antiquated infrastructure. What may be next for this parcel of land should be decided between the city and any interested parties. But one thing's for sure. This building needs to go. It's not a historical building but in the minds of old men holding onto the past.

Lake, Do you have any pictures of the Carling before rennovation?

Are you serious?  The Carling was in worse shape than the Ambassador and look at it now.  I also had the pleasure of seeing two history hotels in DT Lakeland that had been long vacant and in worse condition then this building, get renovated in the late 1990s/early 200s.  Also long as its structurally sound, renovation is feasible.  If it were not, the development group working to bring it back would not be spending money to do that.

Lakeland Terrace Hotel

This place used to be a major homeless magnet.  Now its one of the nicest hotels in the city with a nice upscale restaurant at street level.


 
Regency Hotel

Many thought this one would fall in on itself.  However, its now a nice apartment building.

Thank you for pointing out the mindset of how Jacksonville got to be where it is now.

Am I old I didn't realize.

Sorry you misinterpreted my observation but the reality is this. A condemned building cannot be renovated. It can be demolished then replaced only.

However. There are many buildings in downtown Jacksonville that are "not" condemned and "are" capable of being renovated. Look at my other explanation and you will catch my drift. It's not my mindset it's reality. I've lived downtown for the last 13 plus years. How about you?

I would challenge Gentry to cite one example of an historic (or even simply "old") building being razed and replaced with something better and more useful than a vacant lot over the last 15 years (River City Renaissance and BJP eras).

That strategy clearly isn't working any better than leaving the buildings to stand empty.

I'm not saying that a better building has replaced landmarks. It's just an unfortunate truth that some buildings cannot be saved. I would love to see the Ambassador Hotel brought back to it's glory days but this is one building that won't stand the test of time much longer.

I believe the River City Renaissance has been poorly managed for the most part because in my humble opinion I believe too many handshakes have been and are being given to the wrong people. I have lived in downtown Jax for 13 plus years and welcome every renovation, that is feasible. The Ambassador Hotel is not.

Gentry; respect your thoughts and opinions but I disagree.

And thanks Lake for laying out the justification for renovation of this Jax jewel so eloquently and succinctly. I need not say more.

Heights Unknown

Well other than your brief stay over a two decades ago, what particular aspect of the renovation would you say, in your professional opinion, is unrenovateable?

The structural supports?

The electrical systems?

The plumbing?

The supercalifragilisticexpyalladociousness?

what an uninformed rant, Gentry.

1.  Since Jacksonville's downtown has the lowest crime district in the city, it would be a safe bet that Lakeland's would compare pretty equally per capita.

2.   There is a difference between 'condemned' and 'ready to demolish'.. and a little trip over to the renovated Klutho Apartments would give you a pretty clear example of how far a line that can be.

3.  I was a friend of Paul Hazlett, the developer at the Carling building in the 1980s whose plumbing woes and omni directional goat humping at the hands of the City saw the incurring of those 700k fines (they obviously were not annually assessed).

You should have seen what the City Hall looked like.  Or for that matter the AHL building that is currently serving as John Rood's other renovated masterpeice, 11 east.

The fact that the building is renovated and is a pretty nice establishment at the present time kind of makes your points wrong dont they?  It was condemned as well.

In fact they kind of make you look a little nuts.

Simply not true.

A condemned building certainly can be renovated. There are examples all around the city.

Injecting emotion is actually the best way to get a difficult thing done. That does not mean ignore facts.

Sorry but I'm not ranting. Look up the definition. Unlike you I'm not making emotional attacks. I'm just stating facts as an intelligent person would.

1. Sorry you are wrong. This zone (not district) in Jacksonville has the worst crime rate in the city as ranked by Forbes magazine. Where are your facts coming from? Sorry the two cities don't compare.

Well other than your brief stay over a two decades ago, what particular aspect of the renovation would you say, in your professional opinion, is unrenovateable?

The structural supports?

The electrical systems?

The plumbing?

The supercalifragilisticexpyalladociousness?

Legendary style and glamour has returned to Detroit. Following a $200 million renovation, the historic Book Cadillac Hotel has been restored to its original splendor to reclaim  its position as Detroit’s premier lodging and social gathering destination. The luxury hotel also features more than 60 residences on the upper floors and some of the Midwest’s most dramatic public event spaces.
 
Now included in the National Register of Historic Places, the Italian Renaissance–style hotel, built by Detroit’s famous Book brothers, was the tallest building in Detroit and the tallest hotel in the world at its completion in 1924.

Ask yourself. Do you know that the buildings you have seen renovated were condemned? Or did they simply look like they should be condemned? Big difference. So many buildings survive because some group, company or individual saves it before the city labels them.

Historic downtown hotel eyed for renovation

The Ambassador, born 85 years ago, is eyed for "high-end" living.

By Kevin Turner Story updated at 5:43 AM on Friday, Jul. 17, 2009

In the first half of the 20th century, downtown Jacksonville was replete with hotels, from the majestic and lavish to the utilitarian and spartan.

They had names like the St. George, the Jefferson, the Floridian, the Aragon, the Rollins, the George Washington, the Windsor, the Seminole, the Mayflower, the Carling, the Robert Meyer and the Ambassador.

Most have long since been demolished to be replaced by other buildings or parking lots, and only a few examples of their solid, gracious architectural styles stand today. The Carling on Adams Street is living a second life as an apartment building and the St. George on Duval Street houses Jacksonville city offices.

But the Ambassador, which has stood vacant at the corner of Church and Julia streets since closing its doors in 1998, is next on the list for a second chance.

Lamonte Carter, director of Oasis Venture Group, has been quietly working in recent years on a plan for the historic building’s rebirth as Ambassador Lofts apartments, and seeks to restore its glory days in modernizing its interior while rebuilding its 80 hotel rooms into 50 residential units, converting 10,000 square feet of commercial space on its ground floor.

The units will be “high end,� he said, but also will be affordable for middle class tenants, Carter said. Because the building is historic at 85 years old, its exterior won’t be changed, he said.

Carter said he first saw the Ambassador when he happened to park in front of it on Julia Street while hurrying to make an appointment about four years ago. The vacant building immediately caught his eye and his imagination, he said.

“I was rushing,� he said. “I saw the building, and I just paused a bit.�

He asked owner Sam Easton about it and since has been working on a dream of buying and restoring it. He said he’ll fund the estimated $8 million project with about half in private equity funds and half in city, state and federal grants and low-interest loans earmarked for low-income workforce housing and historic renovation. He hasn’t yet purchased the building and declined to discuss its price. It’s listed on the Duval County Property Appraiser’s Web site as having $1.8 million in market value.

Easton had a plan to renovate the whole block, with a new office building and parking garage near the hotel. Carter said he’s working along the lines of that plan, which was shelved when work on the nearby Duval County Courthouse stalled five years ago. Carter said he seeks to work with Easton in the future to fulfill the vision for the block, but he’s focusing all of his attention on the Ambassador first.

“I see the Ambassador as being the anchor� for the block, he said.

The six-story, H-shaped, Georgian Revival Ambassador first opened in 1924 as a swank apartment building called 310 West Church Street Apartments, according to Florida Times-Union archives. Its 21st century renaming wouldn’t be the first. It was renamed the Three-Ten Hotel in 1944, the Hotel Southland in 1947, the Griner in 1949 and finally Ambassador in 1955.

In 1983, the building was added to the National Register of Historic Places, but that didn’t slow its business decline. Sometime between 1955 and the late 1990s, the hotel slid from serving high-end hotel guests to renting by the week as a rooming house, and, like much of the downtown around it, into a reputation for seediness.

Carter said he hopes to have the purchase of the building closed within the next two months and to start the interior demolition that will clear the way for construction immediately afterward. Once construction begins, it will take about a year to finish, he said.

Emerson Brantley, president of Web3Direct, and consultant to Oasis and Tennessee-based City Capital, said the search is on to find tenants for the building’s commercial space that he says will serve increased area foot traffic when the new county courthouse begins operation.

“The courthouse is going to end up moving a lot of interest away from the river,� Brantley said. “I think it will open all sorts of opportunities for people, and having housing there will also be of benefit.�

The project now has complete architectural designs for its interior space and backers are in discussions with prospective contractors.

“We’re pulling together all of those resources that hopefully will create a new shining star in downtown Jacksonville,� Brantley said.

The effort to meet anticipated demand for residential and commercial space near the new courthouse doesn’t appear to have yet taken hold anywhere else in the area, however, Joe Whitaker, Business Recruitment and Retention Coordinator for the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission said.

“The city does own a small building at 324 North Broad that’s vacant, but we’ve RFPed [advertised for sale] that building twice and never got offers that were equal to the appraised value,� Whitaker said. “We’re hanging onto it in hopes that the courthouse value will allow us to get at least appraised value.�

Sorry but I'm not ranting. Look up the definition. Unlike you I'm not making emotional attacks. I'm just stating facts as an intelligent person would.

1. Sorry you are wrong. This zone (not district) in Jacksonville has the worst crime rate in the city as ranked by Forbes magazine. Where are your facts coming from? Sorry the two cities don't compare.

2. "Condemned" is the word used for "ready to demolish." What you've missed is the red tape between the two. The lowrise Klutho Apartments at 1830 N. Main St. did not pose the same problems a high rise hotel brings to the table. That's comparing apples and oranges. That makes no sense.

3. Again your facts are erroneous. You are talking about your friend at the Carling which is irrelevant. I was talking about 11 East. You referred to fines incurred on a building I don't know about. I was talking about my friend who with his partners owned 11 East (not Carling) and were paying $700.000 a year for property taxes. Get your story straight.

I've lived in downtown for the last 13 plus years. Care to set me straight on anything else you don't understand?

Look at some of my other posts and you may understand a bit better than you come across. I don't see why you have an emotional investment.

Okay all. I'm simply stating facts from someone in the know. I'm not being emotional about this because it is a business matter not one that should affect any of us personally. Believe me when I say it doesn't matter to the city or contractors one way or the other. Far too many decisions are reached by those with greased palms. That is why this topic is debatable at all.

1. Yes I have lived downtown for over 13 years and worked here many more.
2. Yes I know condemned signs go up and come down.
3. Yes many projects receive government subsidies and grants (that's why contractors hover like flies).
4. Yes I would like to see the Ambassador Hotel renovated but it is my belief (just mine) that the principals involved know that this project would be a wash. Refer back to number 3.
5. Yes many of the projects you all listed were feasible. 99% in the city have been what are known as low rise renovations. They don't pose the same problems high rise buildings do.
6. Yes other medium/high and rises have been renovated but not all are built alike nor do they age alike. Case in point. The "modern" six-story Berkman Plaza 2 garage. Not all things are created equal.

It will eventually come to light that this is not a doable project. There are at least 6 other medium/high rise buildings that are as historical, need far less retrofitting, thus costing us, the tax payer, less.

Just because a contractor tells his principal(s), who tells our elected officials, it's doable doesn't mean it's best for us in the long run.

What are your top 5/6 candidates for renovation?

great.  provide sources please.

why are you under the impression that taxpayer money is being used for this project?

And besides, Gentry isnt being attacked, its the nonsense statements that hes making.

I have asked him to back up what he says with a little fact, which he doesnt seem inclined to do.

Ernest, I have done a number of historic renovations, several blocks worth in fact of multistory commercial buildings which had to be completely gutted, re plumbed, rewired and even the facades had to be torn completely off the bottom floors and completely rebuilt.  On one of them we had to have cast iron decorative elements recast in order to restore the historic facades.

There are federal tax credits for doing that kind of work, and one of my associates was able to actually make a profit from simply restoring the buildings, when he leveraged the tax credits against enterprise and empowerment zone credits.  Of course those things are only handy if you are the type that would otherwise have to pay a couple hundred thousand a year in taxes, but Reed was that kind of guy.

But regardless of cash flow or tax credits.  When you restore one of the well built buildings of a hundred years ago, you end up with a product that simply could not be replicated for a three times the price in today's market. 

Its an illusion to claim that "it would cheaper to tear it down and build it new' anyways.

If you think about it, the 'logic' behind the argument just breaks down over time.

Restore = 1 million.
That building is then good for another hundred years.

Tear Down and build modern building =600,000.00
It lasts another 30 years.  then has to be replaced
= 600,000.00

That one lasts another 30 years.  then has to be replaced
= 600,000.00

Then that one has to be replaced at about the same time as the restoration could be restored again.

Over time, the building that was 'cheaper' ends up being twice as expensive.

um.  did you bother reading the post?

Im still waiting for your blistering report from a non "Forbes Magazine" source that shows that Downtown is the worst crime district since the twin cities (Sodom and Gomorrah) went up in flames.

And it would be nice if you would give a little insight on the accuracy of your own assessment.  Aside from staying in a fleabag hotel in the 90s, what actual examination of the buildings structure and systems are you privy to?

Also, since you alluded to your working knowledge of the perils of the 11east building, which of the ownership groups were you speaking about?  After all, if you are going to prominently mention the building whose renovation proves the clown makeup you are wearing is legitimate, it would be nice to know a:  who these mysterious owners were, and b: what chilling insights did they give you about the unworkablility of the building before the building was then, miraculously, renovated?

Also what are you talking about with this 'retrofit' business?

Ive only heard that term used in the building trade in connection with making a building able to survive an earthquake.

Are you aware that Jacksonville has very few of these?  We are most likely to have a Hurricane.  which the building has already survived twice.

Your actual point seems to be:

It is cheaper to redevelop buildings that have less wrong with them.

No one would refute this point.  Its a good point.  Its a sane point.

Perhaps you could hang out with that point for a hot minute and stay away from the big hot plate of Crazy?

All you want to do is argue. You obviously lack any capacity for construction terminology. Which proves to me you are spewing nonsense. Retrofit is the process of furnishing with new or modified parts or equipment not available or considered necessary at the time of manufacture and/or to install (new or modified parts or equipment) in something previously manufactured or constructed and to adapt to a new purpose or need. Sound familiar?

Since my very first post on this topic it was not an emotional discussion, as is the nature of business. I have been stating what I know as an insider and my experience with this business. I am an Architectural Engineer for the city of Jacksonville, FL and previously Manila, Philippines who simply shared his opinion on the state of the Ambassador Hotel.

I won't address your other points because you're simply too dense or too young to learn. Hopefully for your sake it's the latter.

Peace out.

I am an Architectural Engineer for the city of Jacksonville, FL

Well that certainly explains why so many old buildings get torn down in Jacksonville.

Its been my experience in the industry that Jax is roughly around a decade behind its peers on issues like this.  Creativity is definitely lacking, which in turn, leads to a heavier emphasis on continued demolition and surface parking lot expansion.  As more and more people from outside of this area relocate to this city, things will eventually change for the better.

Come on, Stephen!  Saying that someone is "too dense to understand" is coming close to the name calling that none of us like here.  Them's not fighting words, pardner, but maybe squabbling words.

All you want to do is argue. You obviously lack any capacity for construction terminology. Which proves to me you are spewing nonsense. Retrofit is the process of furnishing with new or modified parts or equipment not available or considered necessary at the time of manufacture and/or to install (new or modified parts or equipment) in something previously manufactured or constructed and to adapt to a new purpose or need. Sound familiar?

Since my very first post on this topic it was not an emotional discussion, as is the nature of business. I have been stating what I know as an insider and my experience with this business. I am an Architectural Engineer for the city of Jacksonville, FL and previously Manila, Philippines who simply shared his opinion on the state of the Ambassador Hotel.

I won't address your other points because you're simply too dense or too young to learn. Hopefully for your sake it's the latter.

Peace out.

I know what it was referring to, dork.    For the record I dont. strawberry blondes never go grey.  its a blessing of our fine scottish genome.

I can imagine that staircase being restored to its former glory. I hope they can get this done.