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This proposal will involve the conversion of a vacant lot and surface parking area into recreational space featuring a pavilion, playground, basketball court and soccer field. This gated facility will serve as recreational space for the First Baptist Academy of Jacksonville.
Although this is a private development, it serves as a good example of how to create active green space in an urban setting.
Article by Ennis Davis
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jeh1980
June 30, 2009, 05:21:45 AMPretty nice layout. It's good to replace something that's empty with a bit of life to it.
ReviveJax
June 30, 2009, 07:11:48 AMIt is not exactly what I like to see in a downtown area. I would like to see things open downtown that give people stuff to do, that attracts people to downtown after working hours; however, anything is better than a surface parking lot.
fsujax
June 30, 2009, 07:44:02 AMThis is the site of an old gas station. I believe the church will clean the property or may have already cleaned it. At least there will be some activity there now.
comncense
June 30, 2009, 08:09:08 AMYeah, not too excited about building something downtown that the general public won't be able to use. However, like someone above said, it's better than looking at a surface parking lot. How is it that FBC always has money to buy property downtown and yet it seems everyone else struggles to? Oh wait, I already know the answer to that...
archiphreak
June 30, 2009, 08:18:47 AMI have to agree with Comncense. Yet another piece of land being taken over by a church that will only further stifle downtown development due to regulations imposed by the city to not allow certain developments within certain distances of a church. I wish they'd move and give all that land back to the city to develop projects that can be used by the general public more than 2 days a week. LIke maybe some residences, or a grocery store, or a retail development like some of the malls in Atlanta. Anything.
brainstormer
June 30, 2009, 08:24:59 AMI'm glad they included a lot of trees in the design, and it is better than the empty lot that is currently there. Can someone who better understands the streetscape deviation explain it to me? Are they asking for a smaller sidewalk or larger one? I guess I have a problem with granting an exception to the way the rest of Main Street looks. And are they eliminating or adding parking along the street? Perhaps, Lake, you or someone else can better explain this for me.
heights unknown
June 30, 2009, 08:33:54 AMYeah, I'm not too thrilled either if it's not for public use, however, it is better than a vacant lot. What are the operational hours of that Academy? Because that is what will drive when the activity occurs in that area.
Heights Unknown
heights unknown
June 30, 2009, 08:38:53 AMYeah, wish we could have more commercial, retail and residential entities like Atlanta as you say "Archiphreak," however, FBC has been downtown forever and they're not going to move, ever and forever; the only time I think they might move is when we're all vaporized. If they did move there is a motherload of land that would be sitting waiting to be developed; you know no one isn't going to develop the land right away. I think it's best to leave FBC alone and just build around them and wish them well. They're not going anywhere.
Heights Unknown
jaxlore
June 30, 2009, 08:58:52 AMInstead of a come to church and leave atmosphere, I wish First Baptist would encourage is members to support the downtown area, not just its own little self contained eco system.
tufsu1
June 30, 2009, 09:03:45 AMWhat a great idea...maybe the church will leave and even more buildings downtown can be vacant...and clearly we don't need those 7,000+ visitors to downtown every Sunday!
fsujax
June 30, 2009, 09:10:53 AMwell said tufsu1, just imagine what that part of downtown would be like without the church there. Day laborers, homeless, vacant lots, boarded up buildings.....guess that is better than a church. I gave DVI an idea one time to have a Sunday afternoon event for all the church goers Downtown.....remember FBC is not the only church downtown. I told Terry Lorince she should work with the restaurants, museums and other downtown establishments to open on Sundays and have specials, etc. anything to get people to hang out downtown after chruch is over. what could it hurt?
thelakelander
June 30, 2009, 09:23:15 AMThe entire block was already owned by FBC.
hanjin1
June 30, 2009, 09:27:08 AMWhat a great idea...maybe the church will leave and even more buildings downtown can be vacant...and clearly we don't need those 7,000+ visitors to downtown every Sunday!
The only thing is those 7000 visitors just go straight home after church, especially when you have police out there blocking all the roads and directing traffic away from downtown like it's a jaguar game
thelakelander
June 30, 2009, 09:30:08 AMSounds like the answer is to find a way to better incorporate them into downtown. Btw, the same thing needs to happen with FSCJ and Bethel. Imagine the benefit to downtown businesses if those eating after church ate at a few places downtown, instead of driving to Regency and the Southside.
fsujax
June 30, 2009, 09:34:09 AMAgain where is DVI on this issue? I am sure the leadership at FBC and any other church would be interested.
thelakelander
June 30, 2009, 09:35:56 AMIt does not appear they have plans to modifiy the recent Main Street improvements. The deviation, along Beaver and Ashley Streets, will allow them to match the sidewalk design that aready exists around the Academy next door.
Example:
The Beaver Street sidewalk will match what is on the right instead of the city's gateway design on the left.
The sidewalks along and near Main will match the recent Main Street improvements (right) instead of the city's business-inter district design (left).
thelakelander
June 30, 2009, 09:40:33 AMWho knows for sure. I know we did have a FSCJ representative speak at a SAMBA meeting two months ago. She mentioned their new building entrance at State & Julia, is designed to have an art gallery at street level. They wanted this location to participate in Art Walk but were told they were too far away. Anyway, I don't have the numbers at this moment, but they have something like 5,000 people coming in and out of that campus every day. Imagine the benefit on downtown and Springfield if it could be better integrated into the surrounding area? The new entrance illustrates that FSCJ may be willing to work on this from their end.
comncense
June 30, 2009, 09:54:10 AM...daydreaming but wouldn't it have been nice if we could swap UNF with FBC downtown. Hell, I'd even swap FCCJ with FBC for that matter.
stephendare
June 30, 2009, 10:20:40 AMI don't think I could possibly agree with you more, FSUJAX. Its ridiculous that the city doesnt help celebrate a part of its identity by doing this.
Gospel, Christian Contemporary, Fried Chicken and Barbeque mixed in with a fair amound of hellfire and brimstone is an indelible part of this city and its history. While its not everyone's cup of tea, neither are gay curio shops, country western line dancing, ridiculously low riding pants or adults only bars that charge three extra dollars for the privilege of being under 21 but over 18.
It was actually nice to see a bunch of kids hanging out on main street this past event that they had there.
And Lake you are right. Its thickskulled to the point of neanderthaler not to incorporate the largest blocs of people who actually use the downtown into the fabric of the community. At least in the churches, the only people panhandling are a safe distance away behind an altar.
stjr
June 30, 2009, 02:15:55 PMWhat would be nice and a win-win for everyone would be if someone could integrate a Downtown master plan with FBC's master plan.
I would think the church would have an interest in building structures that might contribute to life downtown during times when the church wouldn't need them for its programs. Most religious facilities are used outside the hours of most commerce so there should be a complementary interest. The church could maybe collect some additional revenue, community goodwill, etc. by building dual purpose facilities. A missed opportunity was not putting ground level retail in their parking structures. Maybe we could miss fewer of these opportunities in their future construction.
As mentioned, someday, their property would make a great ready-made college campus. That would be a much greater contributor to the vitality of downtown.
downtownparks
June 30, 2009, 02:29:15 PMThis isn't infill. Its the suburbanization of our Urban Core. It sucks, if you ask me.
stephendare
June 30, 2009, 02:32:20 PMI guess its better than a big empty lot like the one where the Park View Inn will have been though.
downtownparks
June 30, 2009, 02:33:16 PMI would love to have seen the Park View inn used for something. Too bad the owner didnt.
stephendare
June 30, 2009, 02:35:26 PMThe owner didnt want to use the property for something?
Interesting.
What is it when you actively lobby to have something torn down? Is that suburbanization? Urbanization? Im not sure what I would call that.
downtownparks
June 30, 2009, 02:37:15 PMOh, is this where you blame me for the Park View not being used for anything again?
thelakelander
June 30, 2009, 02:38:13 PMLets keep this thread on topic. The topic is about the First Baptist Academy's recreational project. No you's and I's needed.
lindab
June 30, 2009, 02:38:48 PMDoesn't First Baptist own a couple of streets in this area? Will this design open or close more streets?
thelakelander
June 30, 2009, 02:41:35 PMFBC has been using this site as surface parking for years
The recreational space will complement the urban school next door and replace the surface parking use.
No streets will be closed.
stephendare
June 30, 2009, 02:43:22 PMI can't remember if they actually took posession of the Laura street stretch when they repaved and curved that area between the two main buildings or not, LindaB. It was controversial at the time for sure.
The Church is going through a pretty stressful time in terms of its membership and history (as the entire denomination is nationwide). Since Homer Lindsey left the congregation, the numbers are down shockingly from their peak in the late 80s and early 90s.
Congregation losses nationally are alarming for the denomination and there is a special effort being made to appeal to younger people.
The church isnt as legendarily liquid as they used to be either. Declining congregations mean declining revenues.
Who really knows whats going to happen in the way of further development?
jeh1980
June 30, 2009, 04:22:20 PMI have nothing against FBC Downtown. And I don't see why we have to whine and complain about the use of the land there. That peace of land would have been a construction site of something bigger or taller. But this idea is what the church wanted. Although, I do like to see a couple of fast food places or a Starbucks (or any other coffee shop for that matter) within the vicinity or next to the church. Mickey D's or a Hardee's would be a great fit for any close down or empty building that is within or next to the church. Subway and Quizno's mabye a bit of a walking distance further south (that is if they happen to open on Sunday and if their hours will agree with them. And as far as the old Park View Inn goes, I thought it'll be good to replace it with a multi-story retail mall or something.
fsujax
June 30, 2009, 04:32:35 PMThe church does not own any public street in downtown and the lot has sat vacant for years, mostly recently being used for VBS to entertain the kids.
downtownparks
June 30, 2009, 05:09:15 PMFSU, I believe they are talking about a bill that was put through by former council member Lockett-Felder back in 99 or 2000. When FBC put the over pass in on Laura, they put a support column in the middle of Laura. I believe the bill gave them the land that the column sits on, which is in the middle of Laura St.
I could be wrong, but I believe that was what got everyones dander up.
Jason
July 06, 2009, 08:35:37 AMPart of me likes the addition, especially because it compliments the school. But another part of me thinks that a park like this would be better suited on a rooftop or a parking garage allowing other usages beneath. That's how the big cities do it anyways...
brainstormer
July 06, 2009, 09:29:45 AM^ I agree Jason. Unfortunately Jacksonville is "blessed" with hundreds of empty lots and the out of the box thinking will never happen here until lack of space becomes an issue. FBC certainly has enough parking garages where this would work and being on top of a garage would help them with their "security." I'm just guessing that the idea never came up in their project discussions.
Jason
July 07, 2009, 02:11:38 PMAnother thought, what plans are there to keep stray soccer balls from firing off in the street? If fencing or netting is to be provided, it likely woudn't look to good along Main St.
thelakelander
July 07, 2009, 02:26:32 PMThe site plan indicates that there will be netting to keep balls from going into Main and Ashley Streets.
Jason
July 07, 2009, 02:30:39 PMI wonder how they will make that look good. I guess soccer balls are better than baseballs!
zoo
July 07, 2009, 02:35:51 PMIf safety netting had been included in the budget for the ill-conceived and -implemented Main St pocket park, there might be lunchtime volleyball!
brainstormer
July 07, 2009, 05:22:04 PM^or tennis and basketball courts. When I lived at the Carling I would have loved a tennis court within walking distance. Something like that would really add to the quality of life for downtown residents. Park benches don't really do anything for me.
BridgeTroll
July 08, 2009, 07:42:35 AMDog poo volleyball... an interesting variation of the game. This could make it an even bigger spectator sport...
Jason
July 08, 2009, 09:49:01 AMNot dog poo, BT. They're landmines!