Tale of the Tape:
San Diego Pop. 2007: 1,266,731 (City); 3,001,072 (Metro-2008) - (incorporated in 1850)
Jacksonville Pop. 2007: 805,605 (City); 1,313,228 (Metro-2008) - (incorporated in 1832)
City population 1950: Jacksonville (204,517); San Diego (333,865)
Metropolitan Area Growth rate (2000-2008)
San Diego: +6.65%
Jacksonville: +16.97%
Urban Area Population (2000 census)
San Diego: 2,674,436 (ranked 15 nationwide)
Jacksonville: 882,295 (ranked 43 nationwide)
Urban Area Population Density (2000 census)
San Diego: 3,418.7 people per square mile
Jacksonville: 2,149.2 people per square mile
City Population Growth from 2000 to 2007
San Diego: +43,331
Jacksonville: +69,988
Convention Center Exhibition Space:
San Diego: San Diego Convention Center (1989) - 615,701 square feet on two levels
Jacksonville: Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center (1986) - 78,500 square feet
Attached to Convention Center:
San Diego: San Diego Marriott & Marina
Jacksonville: N/A
Tallest Building:
San Diego: One America Plaza - 500 feet
Jacksonville: Bank of America Tower - 617 feet
Downtown Fortune 500 companies:
San Diego: Qualcomm (244), Sepra Energy (252), SAIC (266)
Jacksonville: CSX (240)
Urban infill obstacles:
San Diego:
Jacksonville: State & Union Streets cut off Downtown Jacksonville from Springfield.
Downtown Nightlife:
San Diego: The Gaslamp Quarter District
Jacksonville: East Bay Street, located between Main Street and Liberty Street. This four block stretch is home to four bars and clubs.
Common Downtown Albatross:
A large number of surface parking lots and underutilized property that cuts downtown off from vibrant inner city neighborhoods.
Who's Downtown is more walkable?
San Deigo: 96 out of 100 (core as keyword)
Jacksonville: 95 out of 100, according to walkscore.com (Downtown Jacksonville as keyword)
San Diego - Jacksonville Scaled Comparison
Jacksonville municipal borders: present (red), pre-consolidated city limits (green)
A scaled overlay of Jacksonville's border next to San Diego's city limits. The light blue line represents the San Diego Trolley (light rail). The dark blue line is the Coaster (Commuter rail), green is the Sprinter (DMU commuter rail) and the yellow line is the Amtrak Pacific Surfliner. Metrolink, a Los Angeles commuter rail system, connects with the Coaster and Sprinter at Oceanside.
San Diego Trolley
The San Diego Trolley opened in 1981 with 13.5 mile single track starter segment with 15-minute headways and passing sidings. This was done to keep initial implementation costs low. The line was mostly double-tracked three years later, largely on the strength of demand for more frequent headways. Since then, the system has now grown to 51.1 miles, includes three lines and is the sixth most-ridden light rail system in the United States with a daily ridership of over 118,400. The San Diego Trolley is a good example of implementing an affordable "no-frills" plan to get rail off the ground in a community that has yet to fully embrace alternative forms of mass transit.
A San Diego Trolley train passes a transit oriented development.
An aerial of a transit oriented development built around a San Diego Trolley light rail station.
For more information on the San Diego Trolley: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Trolley
Santee Town Center
Santee Trolley Square Town Center serves as the terminal point for the Trolley's green line. This transit oriented development serves as a good example of how to integrate mass transit use into low density, automobile oriented situations.
Santee Town Center aerial
Downtown San Diego Aerial
Columbia/Downtown Core
According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, C-Street is one of downtown's most crime-ridden areas and in need of revitalization.
Full article: http://sports.uniontrib.com/uniontrib/20060621/news_7m21cstreet.html
Petco Park
Completed in 2004, Petco Park replaced Qualcomm Stadium and is the home park of MLB's San Diego Padres. Adjacent to a San Diego Trolley light rail terminal, the $450 million ballpark was intended to help revitalize the aging East Village area of downtown.
East Village
East Village was traditionally a warehouse district with scattered vacant lots. In the 1990s, it became a community for artist and social services. With the addition of Petco Park in 2004, East Village is now rapidly becoming a popular location for infill urban housing.
The Marina District
What was once the site of warehouses and vacant lots is the home of hotels, apartments, condominiums, medical offices and retail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina,_San_Diego,_California
Convention center
Gaslamp Quarter
The Gaslamp Quarter is a 16 1/2 block historic district in downtown. After a period of urban decay, the neighborhood underwent urban renewal in the 1980s and 1990s, and is today an energetic business and entertainment district.
Quote
Gaslamp Quarter Timeline
1850: William Heath Davis buys 160 acres (0.65 km2) in what will eventually become the Gaslamp Quarter. Despite heavy investment from Davis, little development happens in this period.[1]
1867: Alonzo Horton arrives in San Diego and purchases 800 acres (3.2 km2) of land in New Town for $265. Major development begins in the Gaslamp Quarter.[2]
1880s to 1900s: Now known as the Stingaree, the area is home to many saloons, gambling halls, and bordellos. Wyatt Earp and his wife Josie come to San Diego and invest in real estate and saloons.[3]
1950s-1970s: The decaying Gaslamp Quarter becomes known as a "Sailor's Entertainment" district, with a high concentration of pornographic theaters, bookshops and massage parlors.
1970: The start of the public interest in preserving buildings downtown, especially in Gaslamp Quarter.
1976: The city adopted the Gaslamp Quarter Urban Design and Development Manual, aimed at preserving buildings in the area, and the redevelopment of Gaslamp Quarter as a national historic district.
1982: Gaslamp Quarter became the major focus of the redevelopments in downtown by the city of San Diego.
1850: William Heath Davis buys 160 acres (0.65 km2) in what will eventually become the Gaslamp Quarter. Despite heavy investment from Davis, little development happens in this period.[1]
1867: Alonzo Horton arrives in San Diego and purchases 800 acres (3.2 km2) of land in New Town for $265. Major development begins in the Gaslamp Quarter.[2]
1880s to 1900s: Now known as the Stingaree, the area is home to many saloons, gambling halls, and bordellos. Wyatt Earp and his wife Josie come to San Diego and invest in real estate and saloons.[3]
1950s-1970s: The decaying Gaslamp Quarter becomes known as a "Sailor's Entertainment" district, with a high concentration of pornographic theaters, bookshops and massage parlors.
1970: The start of the public interest in preserving buildings downtown, especially in Gaslamp Quarter.
1976: The city adopted the Gaslamp Quarter Urban Design and Development Manual, aimed at preserving buildings in the area, and the redevelopment of Gaslamp Quarter as a national historic district.
1982: Gaslamp Quarter became the major focus of the redevelopments in downtown by the city of San Diego.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslamp_Quarter
convention center
San Diego Coaster
The Coaster is a 41 mile, 8 station, commuter rail operating between Oceanside and Downtown San Deigo. Service began in 1995 and as of 2006, the system carries 6,000 riders a day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaster_(San_Diego)
Oceanside Sprinter
The Sprinter is a diesel light rail line operating between the San Diego suburbs of Oceanside and Escondido. Completed in 2008, the system runs on 22 miles of pre-existing freight track owned by the San Diego Northern Railroad. Due to its shared right-of-way with freight trains, Sprinter station platforms are set back from the track to provide sufficient room for employees riding on the sides of freight cars. This suburban rail line currently has a ridership of 8,308 passengers a day. At Oceanside Transit Center, the Sprinter connects to three commuter rail lines (the Coaster, Metrolink Orange County, and Metrolink Inland Empire) and Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner regional rail line to access either San Diego or Los Angeles. For those who believe rail can only work in urban areas, the Sprinter service suggests otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprinter_(passenger_rail)
Amtrak Pacific Surfliner
The Pacific Surfliner is a 350-mile Amtrak corridor service serving the communities of Southern California. With 3.09 million passengers in fiscal year 2009, this is Amtrak's most heavily-travelled service outside of the Northeast Corridor, and recovers 59.1% of its operating expenses through ticket sales. Between San Diego and Los Angeles, trains travel in each direction every hour. Including Oceanside, the Pacific Surfliner makes four stops in the San Diego area and terminates at Union Station in downtown. The San Diego Coaster commuter rail line makes eight stops along the same corridor. The Pacific Surfliner and Coaster serve as excellent examples of how an Amtrak corridor service and regional commuter rail can complement each other.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Surfliner
Westfield Horton Plaza
Quote
Before it was redeveloped as a shopping center, Westfield Horton Plaza was an actual plaza: a grassy area surrounded by banks of plants and flowers, standing in stark contrast to the buildings around it. It was named for Alonzo Horton, who was largely responsible for the location of downtown San Diego. In the 1960s and 1970s the plaza was a major public transit center, with most public buses that entered downtown having stops there. The entire area was run down by the 1960s, and the plaza was home to a substantial homeless population. Despite the poor condition of the plaza, initial plans to redevelop it into a shopping center were met with some skepticism and resistance.
Westfield Horton Plaza was the $140,000,000 centerpiece of a downtown redevelopment project run by The Hahn Company, and is the first example of architect Jon Jerde's so-called "experience architecture". When it opened in August 1985, it was a risky and radical departure from the standard paradigm of mall design. Its mismatched levels, long one-way ramps, sudden dropoffs, dramatic parapets, shadowy colonnades, cul-de-sacs, and brightly painted facades create an architectural experience in dramatic contrast to the conventional wisdom of mall management. Conventional malls are designed to reduce ambient sources of psychological arousal, so the customers' attention is directed towards merchandise. By making the mall an attraction in itself, Jerde stood this model on its head.
Westfield Horton Plaza was an instant financial success, with 25 million visitors in the first year. Twenty years after opening, it continues to generate the city's highest sales per unit area, in the range of $600 to $700 per square foot ($6500 to $7500/m˛)). From an urban planning standpoint, Westfield Horton Plaza is a civic asset that generates pedestrian traffic and shares it with a number of contiguous destinations, paving the way for the revitalization of the Gaslamp District. According to its web site, the mall has been "hailed locally and nationally as an overwhelming success since its opening in August 1985, winning dozens of awards in design, architecture and urban development."
When originally built, the center was anchored by The Broadway, Mervyn's, Nordstrom and J. W. Robinson's. The Robinson's was renamed Robinsons-May in early 1993 and closed in June 1994, being subdivided for shopping and entertainment space. The Mervyn's was closed in 2006.
In 1998 Hahn sold the center to Westfield America, Inc., a precursor of The Westfield Group. It was renamed "Westfield Shoppingtown Horton Plaza" shortly afterwards. The unwieldy "Shoppingtown" name was dropped in June 2005. Today, the shopping center is anchored by a Macy's and Nordstrom.
Westfield Horton Plaza was the $140,000,000 centerpiece of a downtown redevelopment project run by The Hahn Company, and is the first example of architect Jon Jerde's so-called "experience architecture". When it opened in August 1985, it was a risky and radical departure from the standard paradigm of mall design. Its mismatched levels, long one-way ramps, sudden dropoffs, dramatic parapets, shadowy colonnades, cul-de-sacs, and brightly painted facades create an architectural experience in dramatic contrast to the conventional wisdom of mall management. Conventional malls are designed to reduce ambient sources of psychological arousal, so the customers' attention is directed towards merchandise. By making the mall an attraction in itself, Jerde stood this model on its head.
Westfield Horton Plaza was an instant financial success, with 25 million visitors in the first year. Twenty years after opening, it continues to generate the city's highest sales per unit area, in the range of $600 to $700 per square foot ($6500 to $7500/m˛)). From an urban planning standpoint, Westfield Horton Plaza is a civic asset that generates pedestrian traffic and shares it with a number of contiguous destinations, paving the way for the revitalization of the Gaslamp District. According to its web site, the mall has been "hailed locally and nationally as an overwhelming success since its opening in August 1985, winning dozens of awards in design, architecture and urban development."
When originally built, the center was anchored by The Broadway, Mervyn's, Nordstrom and J. W. Robinson's. The Robinson's was renamed Robinsons-May in early 1993 and closed in June 1994, being subdivided for shopping and entertainment space. The Mervyn's was closed in 2006.
In 1998 Hahn sold the center to Westfield America, Inc., a precursor of The Westfield Group. It was renamed "Westfield Shoppingtown Horton Plaza" shortly afterwards. The unwieldy "Shoppingtown" name was dropped in June 2005. Today, the shopping center is anchored by a Macy's and Nordstrom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horton_Plaza
San Diego / Jacksonville similarities
- Both are Navy towns
- Both are coastal cities with an abundance of water-related activities
- Neither are the home of a major urban core university.
- Both cities have been engulfed by low density sprawl
A light rail line in the middle of a suburban intersection.
San Diego / Jacksonville contrasts
- San Diego has embraced rail transit. Jacksonville still favors highways.
- Due to a nearby airport, San Diego has no buildings over 500 feet. Jacksonville has two.
- In San Diego, there are several examples of old buildings integrated with new uses. In Jacksonville, old buildings are routinely torn down.
- San Diego's downtown has benefited from "connectivity." Jacksonville struggles to embrace the concept.
San Diego's Gaslamp Quarter is anchored by the waterfront and convention center on one end, and Horton Plaza on the other.
Transit Tips from San Diego
- Multi-modal Transportation Centers work very well. In San Diego, Downtown connects Amtrak, commuter rail, trolley, and local bus with Greyhound being two blocks away. At Oceanside, the transit hub is served by Amtrak, commuter rail (San Diego and LA), DMU commuter rail (Sprinter), Greyhound, and local bus.
- Most of the San Diego Trolley light rail system was built very economically with no frills. Today, the trolley has the highest ridership of any light rail system in the U.S.
- To save on right-of-way acquisition costs, San Diego's trolley shows that downtown stations can use existing sidewalks and be integrated with buildings. Suburban stations can be integrated with or right next to typical strip shopping centers.
- Transit Oriented Developments (TOD) can range in scale and density. In San Diego, three story apartments and townhomes are common at many rail stations.
Source: Wiatt Bowers
Images by Wiatt Bowers
Article by Ennis Davis
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Keith-N-Jax
July 10, 2009, 07:15:03 AMSan Diego is a very nice and expensive city. Not to put another knock on our home town, but inorder to have developments seen there you must have vision, leadership, and money of course and frankley we have neither. The good old boy routine that exist in this city will never let this type of development happen. We have been plagued for decades with poor decision making. We have made some improvements, but when you see cities like this you wonder if we will ever see anything like this.
zoo
July 10, 2009, 07:56:15 AMJust to reiterate:
Any of those photos taken in June? I didn't realize how much I missed those purple jacarandas...
thelakelander
July 10, 2009, 08:03:26 AMThey were all taken in June.
vicupstate
July 10, 2009, 08:11:38 AMGreat article. Lots of in-depth analysis.
SD shows what Jax could be, if it REALLY wanted to.
tufsu1
July 10, 2009, 08:25:03 AMgreat article Lake!
heights unknown
July 10, 2009, 09:19:47 AMWhat an exciting Europeanesque looking city. The convention center is huge and looks great, with essential hotels located nearby. The city limits of San Diego are almost as big as duval county as a whole, and the city limits are not inclusive of the county. Our old city limits look pale and extremely small in comparison. This is the first time that I have viewed photos of San Diego and I am awestruck and impressed; doesn't look like an American City at all, clean, tidy, manicured (unless there are other blighted/run down areas that haven't been shown), and obviously as someone mentioned, there is quite a lot of money being thrown around. Jax could be San Diego with the right leadership, vision and focus. There is nothing that cannot be done and never say never; just need the right people to make it happen.
Heights Unknown
Karl_Pilkington
July 10, 2009, 10:04:43 AMSan Diego is one of my favorite cities. It has everything and a great climate to boot. Petco field is awesome and the gaslight district is also a lot of fun. They have some amazing historic hotels downtown and lots of different restaurants and things to do. They also are not held hostage by big churches, but are still very conservative there nonetheless due to the big presence of the military bases. With all that and the Mexican border nearby they've done a great job of creating an awesome american city!
fsujax
July 10, 2009, 10:10:58 AMSan Diego is nice. Too me it is so much better than LA. Jacksonville is not the only large city with a large church downtown. Houston and Dallas both have mega churches Downtown and it hasnt seem to stop their downtown development. I believe it goes a lot deeper than just having a large church downtown. Poor leadserhip in urban development and no will power to get it done is our problem. Mind you not everyone who attends those large churches is anti-downtown!
JaxNative68
July 10, 2009, 10:20:38 AMForget jacksonville, I'm ready to move to San Diego!
JeffreyS
July 10, 2009, 10:30:34 AMSan Diego is a lot of fun it is amazing how people are outside all of the time. The boardwalk at the beach is a great time.
JaxNative68
July 10, 2009, 10:32:39 AMthe big difference between all of the cities your Elements of Urbanism has covered and Jacksonville: Density, have a broad white collar employment, their not run by the southern baptist church, they aren't tearing down their historic urban fabric, their city leaders have a progressive visionary approach and no good ole boy network.
Orlanta
July 10, 2009, 10:57:53 AMI've always loved San Diego. Its a Top 5 US city for me.
vicupstate
July 10, 2009, 10:59:48 AMFrom what I have heard, the San Diego of the '80's is the Jacksonville of today.
Maybe there needs ot be an in-depth examination of SD post WW2 to see exactly how they took the path that lead them to where they are today.
Although it is not in DT proper, Balboa Park is a must see when visiting SD. It is a HUGE mega park that is well maintained and is the home of the world famous zoo, and about 10 museums.
heights unknown
July 10, 2009, 11:18:57 AMIn all due respect, "your bags are not packed yet?"
I hope you are not dissing our city. It is not the city's fault that it is stagnant in all areas of growth and prosperity. However, I feel your despair, frustration, etc. But don't diss our city.
Heights Unknown
JaxNative68
July 10, 2009, 11:31:02 AMheights unknown,
a new term for your vocabulary: sarcasm
b real
July 10, 2009, 11:58:11 AMI just recently visited San Diego, awesome city!
I do believe there is vision in Jacksonville, I just think the ones with the vision have no money or help from the city.
Obviously the Baptist Church is not going anywhere so why do we keep harping on it? There is plenty of land to develop and buildings to be renovated downtown.
The problems in our city come down to our government and yes I do believe we are being ran by a good ole boy system.
I hear a lot of negativity about Jacksonville and yes, I will admit, I am sometimes a part of that. How do we change our negativity into positivity and come up with solutions and start taking action? I read this site every morning and if there is this many people that want change and have amazing ideas than why hasn’t something happen. Because of Metro Jax and other sites these issues are being brought to the public and change is happening very very slowly. At times I feel like our city take a step forward and than does something to bring us back down. We will get there, I just hope it’s before we have distorted what is left of our amazing passed.
GideonGlib
July 10, 2009, 12:04:55 PMSan Diego is a great town, and Jacksonville could be just as beautiful, I see so many comments about why Jacksonville can't be as nice and vibrant, but the truth to me seems to be that as much as any church, or politician is holding us back is this common sense of "can't do" that so many of us have regarding our city. I think we could do the things that would put us on par with these other cities, and we all need to be out there talking to everyone we know about why we can, believing that we can and demanding from local government more.
tufsu1
July 10, 2009, 01:04:14 PMMaybe there needs ot be an in-depth examination of SD post WW2 to see exactly how they took the path that lead them to where they are today.
That's exactly how I felt when I visited there.....the two cities have much in coimmon but one is 10-20 years ahead of the other.
Jason
July 10, 2009, 02:32:18 PMWell Ron Burgundy says that San Diego means "a whale's vagina". I'll still with Jacksonville!
heights unknown
July 10, 2009, 04:00:26 PMa new term for your vocabulary: sarcasm
"Jax Native," please re-read my post, I did say "respectfully" and I meant that; sarcasm was not wholly meant to be exuded, but, I am very pro-Jacksonville so please forgive me if I came across too aggressive or even sarcastic in your own mind. Thanks.
P.S. - my vocabulary, believe me, is much more extensive than yours, however, I don't need to use big words to show that I am educated. Thanks again.
Heights Unknown
Ocklawaha
July 10, 2009, 04:49:55 PMSuch a deal! I've got the perfect way for San Diego to clean up C-Street~!
Let's trade them even for Water Street!
Heights Unknown, my friend, if San Diego makes you swoon, Spokane, Seattle and Portland would kill you man.
OCKLAWAHA
JaxNative68
July 10, 2009, 05:16:20 PMheights unknown-
I've taken nothing personal and no way have found you aggressive or sarcastic; I was actually alluding to me being sarcastic, not you. Trust me, I was not trying to take a shot at your intellect or the extent of your education. By reading your posts it is obvious that you are intelligent, but if you would like to get together for a spelling or vocabulary test, you might find yourself scratching your head. And that will be due to my ineptness
Don't take life so seriously, it makes it hard to enjoy.
JaxNative68
July 10, 2009, 05:18:14 PMJason-
Jacksonville means "manatee vagina" . . . or was it Cowford, anyway are you still with Jacksonville?
urbanlibertarian
July 10, 2009, 06:43:34 PMcivil42806
July 10, 2009, 08:21:42 PMAbsolutely one of my favorite pictures concerning Jacksonville, check out the guy down below, does anyone know his name? Would have the same grin on my face
Orlanta
July 10, 2009, 08:29:23 PMCan someone explain to me the notion that churches are somehow holding the city back.
jeh1980
July 10, 2009, 09:54:02 PMCorrection about the the old building in downtown Jacksonville. I don't think that Jacksonville would get a kick out of tearing down old buildings for the sake of just a flat surface parking lot (or a pocket park for that matter), with all due respect. They wanted to make more room for some big development. Then again, some of those old buildings could've been saved for something. But yet again, who would dare blame the city or the developers for wanting to see the projects be finalized and realized only to see some fall through the cracks. Things happened like a few other cities.
In all due respect, "your bags are not packed yet?"
I hope you are not dissing our city. It is not the city's fault that it is stagnant in all areas of growth and prosperity. However, I feel your despair, frustration, etc. But don't diss our city.
Heights Unknown
I think all of us should never diss this city. I was born and raised in this city and I'm blessed to live here. I would never say anything rotten about it and never will.
I don't believe that the churches hold the city back. I think it's the city's ideas of how they run things, and how they vision the city will determine what will the city should be in the future. Jacksonville will be vibrant in time. It's just that they need to get a better vision of what they want and what WE all want to see in this town. And sometimes the city would need OUR help in making the city better.
samiam
July 10, 2009, 11:11:51 PMWhile attending gas free engineering school at the navy base in San Diego I was surprised to see that they close off the gas lamp district and have a huge Mardi Gras celebration. How is it possible that a city that has zero French history can celebrate Mardi Gras but Jacksonville that has french history as far back as the 1500s cant. Its mind blowing that this city does not realize how much money Mardi Gras could bring in
samiam
July 10, 2009, 11:26:17 PMFort Caroline and St. Augustine
1492 Columbus discovers the New World.
1513 Florida discovered by Ponce de Leon.
1562, May 2 Ribault a French Huguenot, sent to the New World by Gaspard de Coligny, Admiral of France, discovers the St. Johns he "caused a pillar of hard stone to be planted within saye River, and not far from the mouth of the same upon a little sandie knappe, in which pillar the Armes of the King of France were carved and engraved." He sails further north to Port Royal S.C., and leaves 26 men there founding Charlesfort. These men later abandon the fort and are found adrift near England after having cannibalized one of their group. Ribault returns to France.
1562 July Ribault arrives in France to find that the Wars of Religion have begun. He is at the seige of Dieppe, when it falls to Catholics he flees to England, later imprisoned there.
1563 May French War ended by Treaty of Amboise
1564, April 22 Rene Goulaine de Laudonniere, Ribault's leutinenat on the first voyage sails for St. Johns to establish colony, Ribault is still in prision in England.
1564 June 22-25 The French arrive at St. Johns. The Indians have left food and flowers at the column in some sort of worship. After some time Laudonniere establishs Fort Caroline under St. Johns Bluff. Colony has problems with Indians, several plots against de Luadonniere's life, and mutinies. Some of the Mutineers steal the colonies boats and raid the Spainish West Indies. The French failed to conserve supplies and began to barter for food with the Indians, this led to the taking of the local King as hostage. Laudonniere decides to return to France. They begin to build a boat.
1565, August 3 John Hawkins arrives looking for Charlesfort, trades food and a ship to the French for guns and ammo.
1565, August 28 As they prepare to leave Ribault arrives with a relief fleet of 600 colonists and 7 ships. He relives Laudonniere of command. Several colonists who had returned to France (the earlier mutineers) claimed Laudonniere believed himself the king of New France. Ribault has been ordered to defend the colony and prevent the Spainish from founding one here.
1565, August 28 Spanish under Pedro Menendez de Aviles lands at the River of Dolphins with 19 ships, 1054 men including craftsmen, wives, children and livestock.
1565, September 5 Spanish ships arrive at the St. Johns. French sail off and Spanish who are unable to catch them return to the River of Dolphins.
1565, September 8 St. Augustine founded.
1565, September 10 Ribault ordered by Coligny not to allow Menendez to settle takes his ships to St. Augustine despite a coming storm.
1565, September 11 Ribault arrives at St. Augustine and almost catches Menendez in a small boat offshore. The Spanish ships sail for Hispaniola. Unable to cross the bar Ribault prepares to return to the St. Johns when the storm hits and scatters his ships southward. Menendez marches overland in the storm to Ft. Caroline.
1565 Sept. 20 Menendez takes Fort Caroline, some French escape including Laudonniere. 70 women and children aer captured. Others are hanged as heretic Lutherans. Menendez renames the fort Ft. Mateo since it was taken on St. Matthew's day.
1565. Sept 28 First Matanzas massacre. Ft. Mateo burns and is rebuilt later.
1565, Oct 12 Second Matanzas massacre. Ribault killed.
samiam
July 10, 2009, 11:32:40 PMhttp://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-moncrief-springs-crown-jewels-of-jacksonville
civil42806
July 11, 2009, 09:35:43 AMMaybe because the french history of jacksonville stopped in 1565? If you want to have a Mardi Gras more power to ya. Personally never needed an excuse to get drunk, but apparently some do. Could attract some folks to downtown, particularly since there has been more club activtiy down there.
heights unknown
July 11, 2009, 10:09:03 AMWow! Why don't women sport "MATTERHORNS" like that anymore? These days they sag, droop, drag, and drape. Oh, I know why, because they show the real thing now and don't leave anything to the imagination anymore. Anyhoo, I think she is so beautiful sporting her mountainous "tats." Ah, the good and gracious things of the past!
By the way, is that Mayor Hans Tanzler looking so happy with his sh** eating grin? I would be too.
Heights Unknown
heights unknown
July 11, 2009, 10:20:54 AMBy the way everyone, that is actress Lee Meredith (dammit), along with her jutting tats, posing with Mayor Hans Tanzler way back when (1968?).
Heights Unknown
samiam
July 11, 2009, 01:50:07 PMRead this link for more french history
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-moncrief-springs-crown-jewels-of-jacksonville
Jaxson
July 11, 2009, 02:57:08 PMI recently attended a convention in San Diego and I was very impressed by this city. I stayed at the Hotel Solamar in the Gaslight District. When I first arrived, I took a walking tour of the area. There was an excellent selection of retail, dining and entertainment. Petco Park was only blocks away from my hotel. Especially on baseball game nights, the city was alive with people on the streets well into the night.
I enjoyed my experience at the convention center. I was within walking distance of my hotel and had ample space for our convention, exhibitors, registration, etc. It was adjacent to two trolley stations.
I took advantage of the trolley, purchasing a four-day pass for only $14. One-way tickets are $2.50 and one-day passes are $5. I went as far as the San Ysidro station to the south to visit Mexico and out to the Middletown area to walk over to Balboa Park. I made one special trip to 24th Street Station to get lunch at In-n-Out.
Overall, San Diego was a city that made me want to move west. It is an example of a well-planned city that we would gain a lot from studying.
As for the folks who feel that powerful churches are hampering our city's growth/progress, many people do believe that downtown Jacksonville won't have a nightlife like San Diego, Tampa or Atlanta because there are powerful religious leaders who oppose expansion of nightclubs and bars in downtown Jacksonville.
Another issue in Jacksonville is the wholesale destruction of the local history. The problem does lie in the lack of a comprehensive plan for the city. Jacksonville moves forward in fits and starts and ends up a jumble of false starts and vacant lots. Shipyards project? Hot dog stands on the Main Street Bridge? D--n shame...
With regard to 'dissing' the city, I agree with those who are frustrated that more is not being done in our city. I think that the dissing is a challenge for us all to move Jacksonville forward...
coredumped
July 13, 2009, 10:25:52 PMSorry to stay a bit off topic, but for those interested in that picture (as I was!:D ) the jax historical society has info on it:
http://www.jaxhistory.com/journal11.html
Scroll down to "Consolidation's Most Famous Photo"
JaxNative68
July 15, 2009, 05:08:20 PMI think all of us should never diss this city. I was born and raised in this city and I'm blessed to live here. I would never say anything rotten about it and never will.
Everyone should stop taking a comments written on this thread so seriously and personally, a little humor and the ability to laugh at yourself and your city can go along way towards open conversation and less decisions being made behind closed doors.
And really, no comments on the "Manatee Vagina" comment. People where's your sense of humor?
Keith-N-Jax
July 15, 2009, 07:43:13 PMWalking around with blinders on is the last thing anyone needs to do. Especially if you care about the city which I believe most on here do. For to long many have ignored the problems in this city or just dont care. I wish the city the best, but its going to be very difficult with the leadership we have in place. Now back to San Diego, what an unlimited amount of different transit, shopping, etc right downtown.
tufsu1
July 15, 2009, 10:04:19 PMdon't forget an unlimited amount of homeless people (just like Jax) too!
Wait, you didn't notice them? That's because, unlike Jacksonville, there were als other people on the streets...so the homeless don't stand out.
Keith-N-Jax
July 15, 2009, 11:00:27 PMPointless, because all cities have homeless issues New York. Miami etc. So I'll put the mute button on for ya.