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Tale of the Tape:
Pittsburgh Pop. 2008: 310,037 (City); 2,351,192 (Metro) - (incorporated in 1816)
Jacksonville Pop. 2008: 807,815 (City); 1,313,228 (Metro) - (incorporated in 1832)
City population 1950: Jacksonville (204,517); Pittsburgh (676,806)
Metropolitan Area Growth rate (2000-2008)
Pittsburgh: -3.29%
Jacksonville: +16.97%
Urban Area Population (2000 census)
Pittsburgh: 1,753,136 (ranked 22 nationwide)
Jacksonville: 882,295 (ranked 43 nationwide)
Urban Area Population Density (2000 census)
Pittsburgh: 2,056.7 people per square mile
Jacksonville: 2,149.2 people per square mile
City Population Growth from 2000 to 2008
Pittsburgh: -24,526
Jacksonville: +72,312
Convention Center Exhibition Space:
Pittsburgh: David L. Lawrence Convention Center (2003) - 313,400 square feet
Jacksonville: Prime F. Osborn III Convention Center (1986) - 78,500 square feet
Attached to Convention Center:
Pittsburgh: Westin Convention Center Pittsburgh (616 rooms), Courtyard by Marriott (172 rooms)
Jacksonville: N/A
Tallest Building:
Pittsburgh: US Steel Plaza - 841 feet
Jacksonville: Bank of America Tower - 617 feet
Downtown Fortune 500 companies:
Pittsburgh: U.S. Steel (105), PPG Industries (161), HJ Heinz (267), PNC Financial (278), WESCO (406), Allegheny Technologies (448), Mylan Laboratories (462), CONSOL Energy (497).
Jacksonville: CSX (240)
Urban infill obstacles:
Pittsburgh: Light rail system does not serve urban core districts outside of downtown.
Jacksonville: State & Union Streets cut off Downtown Jacksonville from Springfield.
Downtown Nightlife:
Pittsburgh: The Cultural District, Strip District
Jacksonville: East Bay Street, located between Main Street and Liberty Street.
Common Downtown Albatross:
A lack of fixed transit options that connect the downtown core to vibrant inner city urban districts.
Who's Downtown is more walkable?
Pittsburgh: 98 out of 100 (Downtown Pittsburgh as keyword)
Jacksonville: 95 out of 100, according to walkscore.com (Downtown Jacksonville as keyword)
Pittsburgh - Jacksonville Scaled Comparison
Jacksonville municipal borders: present (red), pre-consolidated city limits (green)
Jacksonville present (red line) and pre-consolidated city limits (green line) over Pittsburgh's city limits (orange shaded area)
A brief drive through a few of Pittsburgh's vibrant urban core neighborhoods
Red line indicates light rail. Dashed red line indicates light rail under construction. Blue line indicates east busway.
Bloomfield
Bloomfield is located about three miles east of downtown Pittsburgh. It is referred to as Pittsburgh's Little Italy. Liberty Avenue is the neighborhood's main business thoroughfare and rowhouses dominate the area's housing stock.
Lawrenceville
Lawrenceville is one of Pittsburgh's largest neighborhoods. Established in 1914, it was annexed by Pittsburgh in 1868. A century ago, the community served as a residential and commercial district for nearby steel and iron companies. Today, it is an up and coming district with the second highest real estate price appreciation figures in the city.
Strip District
During the 19th century, the Strip District was dominated by industrial uses along the Allegheny River. Companies operating in the neighborhood during that era include US Steel, Westinghouse, Pittsburgh Reduction Company (ALCOA) and H.J. Heinz Company. By the 1920's, the district had become the economic center of the city. Today, the district's old obsolete industrial buildings house wholesalers, street vendors, clubs, bars, restaurants and lofts.
Shadyside
Since the 1920's, Shadyside has been dominated by a mix of affluent families, young professionals, artist and students. Shadyside's housing stock includes a mix of Victorian mansions, apartments and condominiums. Walnut Street serves as the neighborhood's commercial center. Public transportation is available via a busway stop on the edge of the community.
The East Busway connects Shadyside to Downtown.
Southside
Located along the Monongahela River, this neighborhood is the home of the East Carson Street Historic District. East Carson Street is one of the largest 19th century Victorian commercial districts in the country. Today, East Carson Street is the home of a significant portion of Pittsburgh's nightlife.
Double Wide Grill: The reuse of this service station and its parking lot is an example of how a suburban structure can be integrated into a walkable setting.
- Southside Works
Southside Works is a lifestyle center anchoring the East Carson Street Historic District. Completed in 2002, the urban infill shopping center was constructed on the former site of the Jones and Laughlin Steel Company's "Southside Works" plant. This massive industrial complex was shut down in the mid-1980s.
- Station Square
Station Square is an indoor/outdoor shopping, dining and entertainment complex anchoring the northern end of Pittsburgh's Southside. The development was built at the location of a former station on the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Railroad, with some of the original structures such as the freight house building and the elegant concourse being converted into restaurants and a shopping mall.
Squirrel Hill
Squirrel Hill was an affluent suburb of Pittsburgh in the early 19th century. Annexed by Pittsburgh in 1868, the neighborhood has had a large Jewish population since the 1920s. According to a 2002 study by the United Jewish Federation,33% of the Jewish population of greater Pittsburgh lives in Squirrel Hill and another 14% live in the surrounding neighborhoods. Murray Avenue, south of Forbes, is the commercial heart of the community.
University of Pittsburgh
Quote
The University of Pittsburgh, commonly referred to as Pitt, is a state-related research university located in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States. Chartered in 1787, Pitt is highly regarded in academic fields ranging from philosophy to medicine, and is well known for the development of the first Polio vaccine as well as its landmark centerpiece building, the Cathedral of Learning.
Founded as Pittsburgh Academy in 1787 on what was then the American frontier, Pitt is one of the oldest continuously chartered institutions of higher education in the United States. Pitt evolved into the Western University of Pennsylvania with an alteration to its charter in 1819, and upon relocating to its current campus in the Oakland neighborhood of Pittsburgh in 1908, the school received its current moniker, the University of Pittsburgh. For most of its history, Pitt was a private institution until it became part of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education in 1966.
Pitt's rise from its humble frontier beginnings to its current stature is due in part to its ability to withstand early pressures to abandon its commitment to liberal education. Along the way Pitt has achieved strong reputations in a variety of academic disciplines including philosophy, physics, astronomy, history of science, English literature, creative writing, chemistry, business, biological sciences, jazz, engineering, education, international studies, and a variety of medical and health sciences.
Founded as Pittsburgh Academy in 1787 on what was then the American frontier, Pitt is one of the oldest continuously chartered institutions of higher education in the United States. Pitt evolved into the Western University of Pennsylvania with an alteration to its charter in 1819, and upon relocating to its current campus in the Oakland neighborhood of Pittsburgh in 1908, the school received its current moniker, the University of Pittsburgh. For most of its history, Pitt was a private institution until it became part of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education in 1966.
Pitt's rise from its humble frontier beginnings to its current stature is due in part to its ability to withstand early pressures to abandon its commitment to liberal education. Along the way Pitt has achieved strong reputations in a variety of academic disciplines including philosophy, physics, astronomy, history of science, English literature, creative writing, chemistry, business, biological sciences, jazz, engineering, education, international studies, and a variety of medical and health sciences.
For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh
Quote
The Cathedral of Learning, a Pittsburgh landmark listed in the National Register of Historic Places, is the centerpiece of the University of Pittsburgh's main campus in the Oakland neighborhood of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, United States. Standing at 535 feet, the 42-story Late Gothic Revival Cathedral is the tallest educational building in the Western hemisphere and the second tallest university building (fourth tallest educationally-purposed building) in the world. The Cathedral of Learning was commissioned in 1921 and ground was broken in 1926. The first class was held in the building in 1931 prior to its final completion in 1937. The Cathedral is steel frame structure overlaid with Indiana limestone and contains more than 2,000 rooms and 2,529 windows. An impressive scenic building, it is often used by the University in photographs, postcards, and other advertisements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Learning
A busway along 5th Street
Above, an aerial of a busway stop in urban Pittsburgh. Below, an aerail of a light rail stop in urban Pittsburgh. These images clearly illustrate how busways and light rail lines can be integrated in areas of dense population.
Northshore
Located on the north side of the Allegheny River, this district is the home of Heinz Field (Pittsburgh Steelers) and PNC Park (Pittsburgh Pirates). Today, the neighborhood is a hot spot for urban infill taking over massive surface parking lots that surround the sports facilities. Major construction projects include a new light rail subway extension to serve the district and a casino.
This sidewalk, connecting the Northshore with Downtown, is attached to an I-279 bridge. Should the same be considered for Jacksonville's Fuller Warren, Hart or Matthews Bridges?
Completed in 2001, PNC Park is the home of the Pittsburgh Pirates MLB franchise. With only 38,496 seats, it has the second-smallest seating capacity of any Major League park.
However, the $216 million park may be one of the most well designed. Built in the style of "classic" stadiums, the park also features many local eateries at street level.
For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNC_Park
Unique Pittsburgh
- The city's Downtown retains substantial economic influence, ranking at 25th in the nation for jobs within the urban core (and is 6th in job density).
- In 2008, Forbes listed Pittsburgh as the 13th best city for young professionals to live.
- In 2009, Pittsburgh was named most livable city in the United States by The Economist.
- Pittsburgh was named in 1758 by General John Forbes in honor of the British statesman, Sir William Pitt.
- In 1911, Pittsburgh was the nation's 8th largest city, producing between a third and a half of the nation's steel.
- Pittsburgh's population peaked in 1950, with 676,806. Current census estimates indicate that the city has lost 366,769 residents between 1950 and 2008.
- Pittsburgh is the only city where all major professional sports teams share the same colors: Black and Gold.
- Sworn in at age 26, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl is the youngest mayor in the history of any major American city.
The Golden Triangle (Downtown)
Also known as the Golden Triangle, downtown Pittsburgh is the region's economic center.
Downtown Pittsburgh's retail scene is anchored by a Macy's, Saks Fifth Avenue and Nordstroms.
Point State Park is located where the Allegheny and Monongahela Rivers meet to form the Ohio River.
Market Square is dominated by a large number of dining establishments in the center of downtown.
The David L. Lawrence Convention Center is the largest LEED certified convention center in the world.
In downtown, there is no fare to ride the T light rail system.
Wood Street subway station
Transportation Center
Cultural District
Both Pittsburgh and Jacksonville are river cities that feature a diverse mix of vibrant urban core districts outside of downtown. In addition, this scaled aerial indicates that downtown Pittsburgh and Jacksonville's Northbank are roughly the same size. The major difference, at street level, is that the majority of downtown Pittsburgh's building stock still remains.
Article by Ennis Davis
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tufsu1
August 05, 2009, 09:12:06 AMOne of the coolest things about Pittsburgh's Convention Center is the man-madewaterfall stream that runs underneath the building connecting the downtown to the river (since the building blocks the view)...got any pics of that?
Also, don't mess with the Cathedral of Learning :-)
brainstormer
August 05, 2009, 09:21:15 AM"Located on the north side of the Allegheny River, this district is the home of Heinz Field (Pittsburgh Steelers) and PNC Park (Pittsburgh Pirates). Today, the neighborhood is a hot spot for urban infill taking over massive surface parking lots that surround the sports facilities. Major construction projects include a new light rail subway extension to serve the district and a casino."
You said it Ennis. Here is the vision for our own North Bank District. With smart infill growth, our Jax Municipal Stadium, Baseball Park, Metro Park and Arena could become the driving force behind economic growth in this part of downtown. Anchor it with a streetcar or skyway extension, drop in a museum, hotel, residence tower, retail and restaurants on the Shipyards site, make Metro park part of the neighborhood, infill the parking lots around the stadium, tear down the dissecting expressway and BAM! Look at the tax base explode on what is now nothing. This area has the potential to really become a destination spot. Think about it...we wouldn't have to black out Jaguars games, sold out baseball games, an arena with more than 10 big name concerts a year, outdoor concerts on the river, etc.
Again, we always come back to the same issue. How come Pittsburgh doesn't make excuses for stopping development in its urban core? How can recent pictures show big projects being built when all we hear around here is project death and doom. It comes down to mass transit, strategic infill and connected areas, something our city leaders just don't understand. There is no vision and obviously no support or encouragement for developers. And I'm not talking money, because as we have seen numerous times, just handing out money doesn't get things done. I want a real plan for this area and it has to make you say, "WOW! Welcome to the Bold New City of the South!" This city needs to grow a pair.
brainstormer
August 05, 2009, 09:27:14 AMTufsu, thanks for sharing. I think the link below is what you are talking about. Our new convention center on the river could have something that embraced the river as well. That would be pretty cool.
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/1173049.jpg
thelakelander
August 05, 2009, 09:32:02 AMAlso, don't mess with the Cathedral of Learning :-)
Unfortunately, no. That area was closed off for a construction project the couple of days I was there.
Lucasjj
August 05, 2009, 09:38:27 AMIn regards to what Brainstormer said about the area around the stadium...
My family is from a suburb north of Pittsburgh, and my dad spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh. When me and him went to the Jaguar/Steeler playoff game a couple years back he was amazed by the area around the sports complexes. He said it was an area you didn't go to unless you were going to a game, and said he would have never before parked where we ended up parking (which was a parking lot for a new condo). The face lift the new stadiums gave the area really helped bring in a commercial aspect supported by games, which branched out further to include condos and everyday bars and restaurants.
My family moved from the area in the 80's shortly after I was born when a lot of the jobs left, but the city has done a good job of rebounding and accepting new industries to become successful again.
Jason
August 05, 2009, 09:40:23 AMPittsburgh: -24,526
Jacksonville: +72,312
Yeah, they all moved to Jacksonville!
heights unknown
August 05, 2009, 09:48:48 AMThey moved somewhere; Pittsburgh has lost over half of it's population since the 1950's...Tampa is now bigger than Pittsburg in population. I guess the steel mill closings has a lot to do with the great big loss of population, but it seems that the main infrastructure, and many of the old buildings and artifacts have remained intact and are in excellent shape despite the people flight from Pittsburgh. Don't think I'd want to live there.
Heights Unknown
Lunican
August 05, 2009, 09:51:00 AMJacksonville has suffered the same problems with population loss, but it has been concealed by consolidation.
Captain Zissou
August 05, 2009, 10:00:09 AMPittsburgh: -24,526
Jacksonville: +72,312
Yeah, they all moved to Jacksonville!
I can see this as a possibility. Ever been to the Steelers/ Jags game? Half the stadium is black and yellow. Come on Football Season!
brainstormer
August 05, 2009, 10:16:10 AMRight on Lunican! Our growth has not been in what I consider the city of Jacksonville, it has been in the outlying areas which in most other metro areas are independent, attached suburbs.
And Lucas, your dad supports my point. All of a sudden the area is a destination area, not just on game days. Would you go back there just to eat at a great restaurant on say a Wednesday night? Just having dinner near the stadium is exciting even for a non-fan. Image imprinting is constant and pretty soon, you think, hey I should go to a game sometime.
Plus attending a concert or sports event is so much more than just driving in, parking, attending, and then driving home. Jacksonville has not harnessed the potential our stadium area has and we are suffering because of it. It shouldn't just be about going to the game. The surrounding neighborhood should be inviting and create a vibrant atmosphere. It should encourage people to come early and stay late. How sad that the lone sports bar in our stadium area is only open when events happen. Right there shows we have failed.
reednavy
August 05, 2009, 10:16:30 AMLargest LEED convention center in the world, for now. Nashville's will take the title when it opens in 2013.
Oh, and brain, most of the growth outside of the city has been in unicorporated Clay and St. Johns Counties, not much within actual cities themselves. Even with that said, from 1990 to 2000, the city ballooned by almost 100,000 people.
Oh, and Captain, I was at an Arizona Cardinals game in 2007, and half the stadium was Steelers fans. Safe to say, they're all over, to escape the atrociousness that is, as I've heard it called, Shittsburgh.
Lucasjj
August 05, 2009, 10:17:41 AMI am one of those in black and yellow. I do have to give credit though to Jag fans for the playoff game in Pittsburgh. It was nothing like the amount of Steller fans that are at Jaguar games, and many other stadiums for that matter, but there was more teal there than I expected. Some of the people near us that were from Ponte Vedra even said they were going to New England the following week.
Lucasjj
August 05, 2009, 10:22:10 AMOne of the sports bars that has really helped the area around Heinz field is Jerome Bettis' Grille 36. If Jacksonville could have a player to attach to open up something around the area, it could it help attract people for more than just a game. If Fred comes back to this area, or if Tony and Mark weren't just into What-A-Burgers, they could have this affect.
Captain Zissou
August 05, 2009, 10:38:30 AMI think the Image Imprinting aspect of developing around the stadium is a great point. I went to Auburn, AL (of all places) and ate in the shadow of their stadium, which was really neat. Just thinking about what goes on around game day in that area made the whole meal that much more exciting. I'm going back this fall just to relive the experience and go to a game this time.
Lucasjj
August 05, 2009, 10:52:19 AMBoston does a good job of this around Fenway. They even have a sports bar built into the outfield wall. The area is fenced in and coverd by a door during games, but allows you to sit at high tops right at the edge of the field on off days and before games. They also have several other places to eat and drink on the outside of the stadium. Even on an off day in the early afternoon, many of the places were being patronized.
ralpho37
August 05, 2009, 12:24:22 PMAdd another city to the list whose convention center dwarfs Jacksonville's...
heights unknown
August 05, 2009, 03:15:07 PMYeah, and Pittsburgh's population doesn't really justify having that large of a convention center. There are cities with population of 400K or more that don't have Convention Centers that large, but the fact that Pittsburgh has "got it together" relative to its image, popularity, and long standing history as a business city probably justifies it having a convention center that large and people from outside the area will still hold events and conventions there.
Heights Unknown
Ocklawaha
August 05, 2009, 05:01:24 PMBRT = BUS RAPID TRANSIT -vs- LRT LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT
Before someone else goes off on the subject of how we need 100 more buses and exclusive bus lanes before we finish the Skyway or Streetcars are introduced, let me flash some number at you.
This is the ridership chart for PITTSBURGHS admitedly wonderful transit system. (I was there when the last Commuter Train ran into the beautiful Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Station, working for the railroad and almost getting arrested for "working on the railroad"... ah... another story sometime.)
Look at the track record of two of the most advanced applications in our time:
So where to now St. Peter
If it's true I'm in your hands
I may not be a Christian
But I've done all one man can
I understand I'm on the road
Where all that was is gone
So where to now St. Peter
Show me which road I'm on
Which road I'm on
So you think more Freeway lanes are the answer?
They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique, and a swingin' hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you got till it's gone
They paved paradise and put up a parkin' lot
OCKLAWAHA
stjr
August 05, 2009, 06:35:02 PMThis sidewalk, connecting the Northshore with Downtown, is attached to an I-279 bridge. Should the same be considered for Jacksonville's Fuller Warren, Hart or Matthews Bridges?
I made exactly this point in the face of naysayers at the MJ thread on the Fuller Warren Bridge. This picture proves my point explicitly - IT CAN BE DONE!
P.S. I just cross posted it on the Fuller Warren thread at http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4347.msg89418.html#msg89418 for more comment if desired.
ralpho37
August 05, 2009, 09:55:42 PMHeights Unknown
Well said, Heights... Kind of makes you wonder why a new convention center isn't the #1 priority for Jacksonville doesn't it?
heights unknown
August 06, 2009, 12:01:01 AMStupid, stinking, bald headed and ugly leaders...that's why we can't build a good size convention center and lure good conventions and convention type events to Jacksonville.
Heights Unknown
coredumped
August 06, 2009, 04:24:48 PMDid I miss something? Winn-Dixie isn't on the fortune 500 list?
Jason
August 06, 2009, 04:37:20 PMIts not "Downtown".
coredumped
August 06, 2009, 04:45:15 PMOh, I missed that "Downtown" part, thanks Jason!
tufsu1
August 06, 2009, 09:13:55 PMI'll give you one really BIG reason....because virtually no convention center makes money....they almost all bleed red ink.
Now, I clearly understand that they often spur nearby development, with increased revenues and thereby taxes.....but care to wager on how many of the "conservative" folk in Jax. will see it that way.
Keith-N-Jax
August 06, 2009, 10:52:56 PMThey will not, I guess the best and most feasible situation is have new convention center(doesnt have to be a grand one)but located near the old courthouse near the Hyatt. Money will always be an issue.
Ocklawaha
August 06, 2009, 10:56:33 PMI'll give you one really BIG reason....because virtually no convention center makes money....they almost all bleed red ink.
Now, I clearly understand that they often spur nearby development, with increased revenues and thereby taxes.....but care to wager on how many of the "conservative" folk in Jax. will see it that way.
Build the New Courthouse (Hey, we already are!)
Start planning, core drilling etc, for a new Convention Center by the Hyatt (Hyatt already has some Convention space)
Get our Transportation Center up and running as-is with the addition of platforms, tracks and tunnel rehab (With the Convention folks down at the Hyatt, drawing up plans and hosting events, a more compact JTC could be rising)
Tie it all together with streetcar and/or Skyway. (We have the cash for streetcar IF the City Council would let it go)
OCKLAWAHA
Lunican
September 25, 2009, 08:46:02 AMPITTSBURGH, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- Just 10 years ago, you couldn't mention the words "posh" and "Pittsburgh" in the same sentence without a collective laugh. Not anymore.
The Pennsylvanian city is not the soot-filled place that many people think it is. Closed mills and clear skies have yielded beautiful neighborhoods that feature great shopping and even better dining.
Once the security details from this week's G-20 Summit clear out of the city, visit Pittsburgh and make sure to stop in some of these trendy neighborhoods.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/09/24/pittsburgh.neighborhoods.travel/index.html