Author Topic: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively  (Read 26079 times)

Ocklawaha

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2010, 12:01:53 AM »
That technology (werktrein) for "work train," has got to be used primarily in Europe and from Europe; I have never seen such technology in America (though I am sure it is here in our own version or even the above version), or even knew that it existed.  Gone are the days of the "chain gang" concept of constructing railroad tracks, that is, manual labor of laying the track, rocks, and the wood planks (concrete above). Wow.

"HU"

+1

HU, the "Track Gang's" are not gone, but largely replaced by machines. They still function in some remote shortlines or for certain detail work that requires hands on.

The gang concept was never cruel, but it was by necessity very hard work. The idea of singing or counting a rhythm allowed the men to work in unison. When 9 pound hammers are coming down on either side of the rail it is dangerous for anyone to be "out of rhythm." Likewise with lining bars, trying to push a few thousand pounds of rail over an inch is futile unless everyone works together.  Here is one of my favorite old American railroad songs...


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/31SR9RoSDtg&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1?color1=0x402061&amp;amp;color2=0x9461ca" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/31SR9RoSDtg&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1?color1=0x402061&amp;amp;color2=0x9461ca</a>

OCKLAWAHA

Dog Walker

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2010, 10:28:15 AM »
Ock, Isn't that Leadbelly?   Oh, just saw the title bar at the top.  What a fantastic musician!

Why were the track gangs called "gandy dancers"?
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acme54321

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2010, 10:41:02 AM »
They are used in the U.S. everyday. You can see them working occasionally around Jacksonville.

This is the only way the major railroads work on track. Much better end result and the track is out of service for less time.

Yep, there was one working the CSX line along 17 in Avondale a few months ago, pretty cool machine.

urbanlibertarian

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2010, 12:59:44 PM »
From wikipedia:
"Gandy dancer is a slang term used for early railroad workers, especially those in the Southern United States, who maintained railroad tracks in the years before the work was done by machines. No one knows the origin of the term for certain, but it is generally thought that it was a combination of gandy, from the Chicago-based Gandy Manufacturing Company, maker of railroad tools, and the "dancing" movements of the workers using a 5 foot rod ("gandy") as a lever to keep the tracks in alignment."
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Lunican

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2010, 01:16:29 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/025QQwTwzdU&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/025QQwTwzdU&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;fs=1</a>

Dog Walker

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2010, 01:45:57 PM »
Fantastic find, Lunican.  Saw a demonstration at the Suwanee River FolK Festival one year.  Was really amazing to see a bunch of scrawny, old men move tons of rails and ties back and forth as they wanted.  Some of the rhythm songs were really baudy and funny.
When all else fails hug the dog.

urbaknight

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2010, 04:15:06 PM »
The plan is a bit half hearted in my opinion. I hate the eyesore of the addition to the old terminal that we call the convention center. That communist block looking building needs to be removed and the old terminal needs to be 100% restored. no one even uses it anymore, they simply go to the Hyatt, where there's actually things happening. If the city really thinks it needs a convention center, it could be built from the jailhouse after they relocate the current jailhouse. Are they still planning to do that? Let's not just settle for the minimum. Sure it's a good plan, only if we move forward with the complete restoration back to it's original state, even if it takes several years for the economy to recover.

Jaxson

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2010, 05:17:36 PM »
A good resource for restoring historic train stations:
http://greatamericanstations.com/
John Louis Meeks, Jr.

Timkin

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2010, 05:43:33 PM »
The plan is a bit half hearted in my opinion. I hate the eyesore of the addition to the old terminal that we call the convention center. That communist block looking building needs to be removed and the old terminal needs to be 100% restored. no one even uses it anymore, they simply go to the Hyatt, where there's actually things happening. If the city really thinks it needs a convention center, it could be built from the jailhouse after they relocate the current jailhouse. Are they still planning to do that? Let's not just settle for the minimum. Sure it's a good plan, only if we move forward with the complete restoration back to it's original state, even if it takes several years for the economy to recover.

 It would be nice to see the eyesore CC be removed and replaced with something resembling the Terminal..  All in good time.  Lets get the terminal up and running ... Move the  Convention Center to Siberia , for all I care. And in time , when we do have the money to actually replace this addition (?) go for it.  What we have currently there, will get the job done for now.

Again it is only my opinion that had POCC  not located there in the first place, the Terminal may have joined its former next door neighbor, the old Acosta Bridge in the ocean.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2010, 06:14:19 PM »
As much as it pain's me to say it, going for a 100% restoration would be overkill to the 20Th power. Do you realize the terminal was built with over 30 tracks, 29 just for passenger boarding, making it one of the largest in track miles in the WORLD, Grand Central or Penn Station not withstanding. It was designed to handle the trains of 4 mainline railroads with virtually 75% of it's traffic being switched from one train to another... Talk about Atlanta Hartsfield today? HA! 250 trains a day rolled in to the old station, and during the peak of the Great Florida Boom of the 1920's it became the busiest railroad station in the world, with named trains running in 24 sections, IE: first #1, second #1, third #1 etc... all flying green flags to indicate another section following! On the FEC trains got so late that they started rolling the clocks and bumping off days, when you hit 24 hours you were magically on time again.

One infamous story illustrates the frustration with the crowded conditions of the time. The writer said the train pulled into Jacksonville late in the evening just as he was getting ready for bed. Since the station stop was long and involved some switching, he went inside to grab some magazines. Finally returning to the train, they pulled out at 11 pm and he went fast asleep. When the morning sun hit the window he thought he would open it to see the landscape of South Florida. He didn't. Asking the conductor where the hell they were he was stunned with the answer. BAYARD!

Today, a station of 8 tracks would serve our needs including commuter rail on 4 lines, plus Amtrak. Amtrak service is going to double to the south in 2013, and I have it from a VP that it will double to the north and south again soon after. 10 tracks would give us the luxury of a private car track in the heart of downtown, something the Chamber of Commerce should be drop kicking into the JRTC plan.

Sadly the Neanderthal's at JTA seem to think we'll do just fine with 3 tracks. IDIOTS! This is what is about to happen.



Do it smart Jacksonville?

REMEMBER FOLKS YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!  ANOTHER OCK "I TOLD YOU SO" IS COMING TO TOWN!

Dateline: Near future

Scene: Jacksonville Terminal (or JRTC for those that would desecrate the temple)


7:45 am, St Augustine Commute train pulls in
7:47 am, Orange Park Commute train pulls in
7:49 am, Airport Commute pulls in
7:51 am, Baldwin Commute pulls in

Trouble? No place to accommodate the 2nd class Commutes.


8:00 am, the 1st class AMTRAK Silver Meteor to Miami, pull's in on track one. The train is split in half and the Tampa section is placed on track two.

result 2 tracks occupied.

8:05 am The 1st class AMTRAK Silver Star running two hours late approaches the terminal and enters track 3. The Star is further delayed because there is no track four to manage it's split.

8:15 am, Gainesville regional train arrives... but no place to go.

add to this doubling of the Amtrak schedules.

DO THE MATH JTA! DAMN!



Or do it stupid and suffer the consequences, Orlando is watching.


OCKLAWAHA

« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 06:16:31 PM by Ocklawaha »

stjr

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2010, 12:40:02 AM »
I am happy to see the long overdue plans to return Amtrak to Jax Terminal.

I just hope the "temporary" doesn't become permanent.  I don't trust the FDOT and JTA to pull this off as planned.  Seeing their intermodal station plans sure doesn't build confidence in anything they are doing here.
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

CS Foltz

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2010, 03:31:18 PM »
Gentlemen.........I am with both of ya! FDOT & JTA have shown over and over, they lack basic planning skills plain and simple!

dlemore

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2010, 07:49:26 PM »
I would really like to see Amtrak improve its service.  When I was a 9 year old boy my dad(didn't have a car) took me to St. Augustine on Sunday to attend church, visit the Fort and surrounding areas. To my knowledge, he never had to make reservations on FEC's Silver Meteor.  Today, ya wanta go somewhere North or South...Ya better make a reservation far in advance if you are planning to take Amtrak(especially on the weekends). Amtrak knows it needs to improve service from Jacksonville to Miami, not only do they need to add more cars(coach and sleepers) to their trains(longer consist) but they need more trains, period. And while they are at it, it would be nice to put the Gulf Wind back on from Jacksonville to New Orleans(as I remember as a boy, I went there, too).

marcuscnelson

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2021, 11:38:32 AM »
Thinking about this idea. Can't believe it's been over a decade and three mayoral administrations, and literally nothing has happened towards this.
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thelakelander

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Re: Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2021, 01:49:52 PM »
JTA did win a grant to resolve the rail congestion situation through downtown. I'm not sure that work has started yet. Nevertheless, there hasn't been any aggressive movement on this because it hasn't been a top priority of any administration, DIA or JTA in quite some time. Toss it in the same bucket as doing something about the convention center and two-waying streets. We've talked about both for just as long. Only recently has there been some movement towards two-waying streets.
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