Author Topic: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma  (Read 21699 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« on: September 12, 2007, 05:00:00 AM »
I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma



Tacoma Link is a 1.6 mile light rail line that serves downtown Tacoma.  As of 2006, Tacoma had 598,023 less residents than Jacksonville.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/578
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 07:18:23 AM by Lunican »

tufsu1

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 09:11:02 AM »
these studies are nice....but if the implication is that these places have rail and Jax doesn't, its misleading.....Tacoma's light rail line is comparable to our Skyway system.

thelakelander

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 09:30:43 AM »
The difference in Tacoma's line is that its part of a regional mass transit plan.  It already connects riders with the Sounder commuter rail train that gives residents access to Seattle, international airport and Everett and there are plans to extend to line to other areas of Tacoma.  So there appears to be some coordination and a greater vision or scheme at work.

On the other hand, the Skyway is an expensive albatross left to decay by JTA.  It does not serve the Sports District (it should have went there before crossing the river), its taken 18 years to figure out the importance of developing adjacent to stops and the recent BRT proposal for downtown parallels the entire system so instead of feeding riders into it (like the Sounder does with the Link), it will compete for riders (why transfer to a paralleling system, if the bus you're on stops at the same destination?).

Last but not least, Tacoma is a mid sized city and has more in common with a city the size of Lakeland instead of Jacksonville.  Quite frankly, we should be held to higher standards.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Ocklawaha

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Skyway like a LRV?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2007, 03:51:25 PM »
Tacoma and the Skyway? No way. In the transit world it is sort of like saying Volkswagen is similar to a 747, granted, they both go places and carry people, but that's about the end of it.

Our Skyway, was not and never has been intended by the Federal Government as a regional or even local transit system. A automated DPM (downtown people mover) is for want of a better phrase, a horizontal elevator. It is intended to serve only the urban core and to connect one urban focal point with another. This means going from the Omni to Prime Osbourne, is about the limit of it's usefulness. This is not to say JTA shouldn't complete it. They should, the City should, and it should be part of a downtown distribution system that includes LRT/Trolleys, Electric Buses, BRT, Commuter Rail, water taxis and DMU/LRT cars.
The Skyway doesn't have on-site Conductors or Employees *(SEE NOTE), it's trains could be enlarged, it's routes lengthened slightly. It would then serve as the "elevator" to tie an interlocking network of mass transit together.

Heritage Trolleys, LRT, DMU-LRT, are all branches of the same tree. They are generally larger then City Bus size vehicles, with the ability to run from stop to stop just like a bus, then the ability to sprint at high speeds along exclusive right-of-way to the next station. They generally have Conductors or Motormen on-board. Another important point is the fact that LRT of any type is generally at ground level, making it more attractive to paying passengers.

*(NOTE)
A pilot program started at the Seashore Trolley Museum, which operates a Heritage Trolley line in Kennebunkport, Maine, would be worth duplicating in Jacksonville. Both our Skyway and our future Rail lines could adopt a "Transit Explorer" program for youth. This program would allow roving youth conductors and motormen to work with a certified transit conductor or motorman and help guests with fares, and directions, while serving as real conductors with adult operators, or as operators in the bus, or Trolley yard under the supervision of an adult conductor. Seashore has a score of young folks who's parents line up to drop them off after school. No street thugs here, just lots of very savvy youth that plan to be LRT employees. In return, by the time they reach the age of 18-24 they have all Federal and State certifications needed for a job. Boston and Philadelphia are already planning to tap this talent pool. Why not Jacksonville? JTA? Bus garage? Are you listening?



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greggory

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2007, 04:32:35 PM »
As some one who has lived i Tacoma and seen the city, I have to say that the ground that their light rail covers is small. After looking over proposed light rail for Jax, our would be far superior. But seriosly, If they can put this in an area like Tacoma, then there is no way we can't have it here. Oh wait, maybe it's because our local government has no idea what a goldmine downtown could be. I get discouraged by the day with all the missed opportuny we have hear in Jax downtown.

downtownparks

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2007, 04:40:48 PM »
Dont get discourage Greg. Get involved. The more of us that beat them about the head and shoulders, the more they might get the idea. There are things happening, just not as fast as we all would have hoped.

STL

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2007, 05:20:30 PM »
Who provided the funding of the Tacoma system?

thelakelander

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2007, 05:46:54 PM »
It was funded as a part of a region wide voter approved Sound Transit bus/rail plan.

Quote
On August 22, 2003, Sound Transit’s Tacoma Link, the state’s first modern light rail system, has its inaugural run in downtown Tacoma. The line is 1.6 miles long and runs from S 9th Street in the Downtown Theater District through the Business District, and ends at the Tacoma Dome Station, where passengers can board a northbound Sounder train, or a Pierce Transit, Sound Transit Regional Express, or a Greyhound bus in any direction. It is the first completed line of the 1996 Pierce, King, and Snohomish county voter-approved $3.9 billion Sound Transit regional bus and rail plan.

Destination Downtown

The Tacoma Link line construction began two years ago. In 1996, the project cost was estimated at $50 million -- it ended up costing $80.4 million -- but it did come in under the revised budget adopted for it in 2000. Officials said about $12 million of the increase is inflation, and the rest includes add-ons since the approval vote, such as adding sidewalks (Lindblom). Sound Transit funding helped the City of Tacoma adopt a city planning and zoning code -- known as Destination Downtown -- to encourage development around the light rail area and to help revitalize Tacoma’s Downtown. The train runs every 10 minutes, 14 hours a day and every 20 minutes for 10 hours on Sundays. The ride is free

The line begins at South 9th in the Theater District, stops at South 15th at the Convention Center (currently under construction), then pulls into Union Station at South 19th before arriving at the Tacoma Dome Station on 25th Street between D and E streets. Residences, stores, and restaurants are being developed in the area around 25th Street, and parking garages at the Tacoma Dome Station have spaces for 2,400 cars. Union Station is next to the University of Washington’s Tacoma Branch Campus, the Washington State History Museum, the U.S. Courthouse, the Chihuly Bridge of Glass, the Museum of Glass, and the future new Tacoma Art Museum, which is slated to open in May 2004.

Community ideas and input influenced the design and artwork of the stations, and a maintenance barn is included in the line to service, maintain, and store the train cars overnight. A planned double-track configuration at 25th Street was switched to a single track to accommodate community concerns over impacts to parking and traffic.

Fireworks and Confetti

The three trains for the line were built by Czech-Republic-based company -- Skoda Dopravani Technica -- the same company that manufactures cars for Portland, Oregon’s streetcar system. The cars are 66 feet long, 8.1 feet wide and weigh 61,729 pounds each. They are powered by overhead electric wires, and cost $9 million, including spare parts, taxes, and shipping. Each car can operate as a single car, with driving cabs at either end so the cars can change direction without turning around, and each can hold up to 56 passengers (30 seated and 26 standing).

The Tacoma Link light rail system runs at street level at posted street speed limits (25 miles per hour). Sensors in the tracks detect the coming train and turn the signals red to stop the cars at intersections until the train passes. The trains’ midsections are low and at the stops, metal bridgeplates slide out for easy boarding of strollers and wheelchair riders. The cars are heated and air-conditioned and have space available for bicycle storage.

City officials marked Tacoma Link’s inaugural run with fireworks and confetti. More than 3,000 people rode the train that day, and everything went as planned except for a delay in one of the first trips because a truck had parked on the tracks. “This is a delicious taste of what’s going to be delivered 40 miles north of here, said King County executive Ron Sims, also chairman of the board of Sound Transit (Hadley). He spoke referring to the 14-mile “Central Link” running from the University District to the vicinity of Seattle Tacoma International Airport, which is now (2004) scheduled to open in 2009.


http://www.historylink.org/essays/output.cfm?file_id=5642
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

big ben

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2007, 08:34:02 PM »
Quote
Sound Transit funding helped the City of Tacoma adopt a city planning and zoning code -- known as Destination Downtown -- to encourage development around the light rail area and to help revitalize Tacoma’s Downtown. The train runs every 10 minutes, 14 hours a day and every 20 minutes for 10 hours on Sundays. The ride is free

holy shit.  a brand new system opened up for free?  i think that part is possibly the most un-jta.

hightowerlover

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2007, 09:12:29 PM »
these studies gave me a great idea....

jax should get smaller so they can get rail!

Ocklawaha

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2007, 11:01:08 PM »
Hightower Lover, Now THAT was funny! @#!$#@%#$$@! ROFL

Yes, I can see it now, we empty downtown to advance the cause of JTA !

First we take up all the railroads and put BRT everywhere to make sure there is a demand,
then,
When the demand builds up we add a one mile trolley from a parking garage to a vacant lot...
Of course we never really finish it,
operate it with a fare of 35 cents... no make that 45...
yes the magic number is 45 cents,
key to our transit future,
Sounds like us!

Isn't building BRT next to a former rail route, to prove there is a demand high enough for rail, sort of like:
Taking the bathroom out of your house,
building an outhouse in the backyard,
to see if their is a demand to,
build a bathroom in the house?

Move over Issaquah, White Horse and El Reno, here we come.


Ocklawaha
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 11:03:23 PM by Ocklawaha »

SeaEmBee

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2007, 11:58:51 AM »
I once sat in a meeting to discuss attracting more creative class type folks to Jacksonville and a fellow in the group asked, 'Why are they building a beltway around Jacksonville, it's just a small town. Now people will just drive around Jacksonville instead of through it on I-95.' Obviously this guy has cloned himself 100,000 times, and he and his cohort never leave their part of town. In a day I easily travel from the Westside (Normandy),  to downtown, way up North (Pulaski road), and out to the beaches or JTB. Jacksonville is not a small town, this is a big place. It's all about perception. Think small and be small...you know the flip side.

I sat in another meeting and someone said, ‘why would anybody visit Jacksonville, there's nothing here! Tampa has Ybor city.’ My response was yeah so. Most of Ybor and Beale Street in Memphis for that matter is 20% history, 80% hype - 20% old building, 80% new retail complex.  Jacksonville has multiple historic districts - Springfield, Riverside, San Marco, Avondale, Durkeeville, and others. It's all about packaging and marketing what you have. OOOPS that's a tangential rant...

All I really wanted to say is Jacksonville will have a fabulous rail system when people (citizens and politicians) realize that we live in a big city with multiple urban concerns, like the need for good public transportation and solid urban mobility platforms. By the way, we have to be willing to pay for stuff like this too.

We might not be NYC, but this ain't Mayberry either

thelakelander

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2007, 12:39:45 PM »
Quote
It's all about packaging and marketing what you have

Nice.  If we can apply that concept locally then the problems facing multiple issues affecting our community will disappear.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 09:31:38 PM by thelakelander »
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Ocklawaha

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2007, 06:52:07 PM »
Brothers and Sisters...

Do I hear an AMEN, for what SeaEmBee said ?

Well, then AMEN y'all! Amen!


Ocklawaha

north miami

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Re: I'm Smaller than Jax and I have Rail: Tacoma
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2010, 10:50:19 AM »
these studies are nice....but if the implication is that these places have rail and Jax doesn't, its misleading.....Tacoma's light rail line is comparable to our Skyway system.


Subject Tacoma rail section saw   *** 2300 *** Rider Trips per day in 2004.
The section was designed to acommodate upgrade.

The entrenched Jacksonville Growth Culture and assumptions over size so prevelant.The title was sure to arouse interest.
I love the earlier post re: Beltway.Trust me- the proposed First Coast Beltway has served a diabolical role,thwarting much interest by certain potential newcommers.

"The Nine Nations Of North America",by Joel Garreau profiles nine regions,or "Nations" that exhibit their own distinctive cultural and distinctive features. Can you guess where the Nation of "Ecotopia" is??? The designation speaks volumes.

I know of a thirty year resident who recently moved to Seattle-apparently for good.In the spirit of effective depromotion I will spare readers with comparative particulars.
My wife,a bonafide Jax native,and I are likely candidates for "Ecotopia".
There is indeed a certain "something" about outlook,and action,prevalent from San Francisco north.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 11:19:31 AM by north miami »