Author Topic: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus  (Read 12931 times)

dcandeto

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2010, 01:36:23 PM »
I've never understood what appears to be an obsession with providing door-to-door service on public transit.  There's no reason for the proposed detour onto Post/Margaret--that intersection is four blocks from Riverside and Post and five blocks from Riverside and Margaret.  Keeping the service on Riverside would save three turns and a trip through Five Points (on Margaret, which must yield to traffic on Park) in each direction.  Jacksonville has a number of relatively long transportation corridors.  Use them; don't avoid them.

And while I'm at it: it makes no sense to have several buses that run down parallel streets only a few blocks apart (Riverside/St. Johns, Park, Herschel).  Consolidate them and provide more frequent service.  It's nearly impossible to figure out when the next bus will come when they're all late by unpredictable amounts, so you could easily be stuck waiting for the next bus on the schedule while another one passes by, two blocks away.

Jaxson

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2010, 02:05:52 PM »
I've never understood what appears to be an obsession with providing door-to-door service on public transit.  There's no reason for the proposed detour onto Post/Margaret--that intersection is four blocks from Riverside and Post and five blocks from Riverside and Margaret.  Keeping the service on Riverside would save three turns and a trip through Five Points (on Margaret, which must yield to traffic on Park) in each direction.  Jacksonville has a number of relatively long transportation corridors.  Use them; don't avoid them.

And while I'm at it: it makes no sense to have several buses that run down parallel streets only a few blocks apart (Riverside/St. Johns, Park, Herschel).  Consolidate them and provide more frequent service.  It's nearly impossible to figure out when the next bus will come when they're all late by unpredictable amounts, so you could easily be stuck waiting for the next bus on the schedule while another one passes by, two blocks away.

Excellent point!
John Louis Meeks, Jr.

tufsu1

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2010, 02:21:27 PM »
Riverside Ave. isn't going to attract any riders at those hours, the only reason it has riders now are the people who don't have cars but need to go the medical offices. That traffic dries up outside of business hours.

what about all the people that work at St. Vincents...especially the non-traditional shifts...are they not potential cutomers?

fieldafm

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2010, 09:38:40 AM »
Have been out of town for the last few days but I did get a response from Karen Stover.

The expanded service will indeed operate on specific time points and a schedule will be available.  The new PCT trolley service will have 35 minute headways on non-peak times, and 12 minute headways b/w 11AM and 2:30PM.

I did ask Lake's questions regarding current cost structures and expected cost savings, but did not get a specific answer to these questions.

stjr

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2010, 12:23:43 PM »
Fieldafm, isn't it Ken Stover?  Or does he have a relative at JTA too?  ;)
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

fieldafm

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2010, 12:34:25 PM »
Fieldafm, isn't it Ken Stover?  Or does he have a relative at JTA too?  ;)

Well that was embarassing! 

Timkin

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2010, 05:12:36 PM »
Fieldafm, isn't it Ken Stover?  Or does he have a relative at JTA too?  ;)

Well that was embarassing!


I do it all the time, Field!

fieldafm

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2010, 08:50:02 PM »
Coming soon....





Hopefully those in the hood will ride this quite a bit and we can show JTA that any potential streetcar lines would have substantial ridership numbers to feed into downtown and the other surrounding urban neighborhoods.

JeffreyS

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2010, 08:56:17 PM »
^ I just hope a half ass bus isn't supposed to be representative of impact of a great streetcar line.
Lenny Smash

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2010, 11:44:31 PM »

HEY! Even I want to ride this.

Jeffery by Job I think you've got it!  I know Joey, fieldafm and a handful of others think the fake PCT vehicle is going to gauge traffic for a future streetcar... Why? Well maybe because JTA says so. This goes to show us how far removed they are from multimodal transit realities. IE: These boys and girls wouldn't know a streetcar from a bus if it ran over them, but I'll promise you one thing, they will NEVER, NOT EVER, NUNCA, prove a streetcar market with a bus. Especially a rattle-trap plastic and plywood, stiff seated, loping, bumpy, polluting, stinking fake. 

Think Ock hates fake trolleys? buses?  Here is the deal folks, DON'T PEE ON MY LEG AND TELL ME ITS RAINING! I hate fakes* and as a result, have encouraged JTA to do something different, let's be the first city to go with HERITAGE BUS! Reproductions and vintage vehicles are available and a reproduction 1920 era bus is after all...A BUS! Just as a reproduction vintage streetcar IS A STREETCAR. Just don't tell me your bass boat is a retired BLUE ANGELS plane, no matter how much glue and plastic you stick on it.

FAKES = BAD,  VINTAGE REPRODUCTIONS = GOOD



OCKLAWAHA

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2010, 09:17:15 AM »
Well as I predicted they merged it with another line, and this will result in the failure of the concept.

And Tufsu, replying to your previous post, no I don't think the employees working at St. Vincents and the medical offices are going to be bus customers, if you look at what doctors and nurses make most all of those folks will have cars. Which means they won't be riding the bus, since nobody whose time is worth anything can afford to deal with JTA. Their crappy and unreliable 'service' is nothing but a last resort for people who cannot afford any other option. It isn't a real public transit system in the traditional sense at all.

Back in the real world, nobody is going to wait an hour in the rain and heat with no shelters, to get on a bus that for no legitimate reason is running an additional hour or two late beyond its absurdly long scheduled headways, and then have to pay for the privilege of dealing with JTA's famously rude/nasty drivers, only to wind up missing whatever meeting they were going to anyway. People are forced to spend 2, 3, 4+ hours just trying to go a whopping 10 miles on JTA. It's ludicrous, and all of this has the exact effect you would expect: Nobody uses JTA who doesn't have to, and the rest of us feel terrible for everyone who has to deal with that nightmare.

You'd think they couldn't screw this concept up, right? It's so simple. Take some drunks from Riverside to Downtown and back, and vice versa, stimulating commerce and development in the process. It's a win-win. What idiot decided that integrating it with a regular bus line with 10 different stops nowhere near the dining/entertainment venues that it was originally supposed to serve, and then curtailing service during the hours when it would actually be used, was an improvement?

The reality:

JTA, in all of its incompetent glory, feels threatened by fixed rail transit. Why? Couldn't tell you. It probably relates back to the fact that the same asinine idiots who originally designed this mess of a system are still running JTA, and they'll go down with the ship before they admit they built it wrong. That's my guess. Or maybe the giant Skyway boondoggle scared them off the entire concept? Can hardly blame them there, what a disaster that thing is.

But whatever the reason for it, they are clearly quite committed to undermining the development of rail-based public transit. When JAX-St. Aug commuter rail became a real possibility, JTA tried to usurp both the demand and the federal funding for it by announcing "B(R)T" on the US-1 corridor. And I put the "R" in parentheses because nothing about JTA is "Rapid".

When the concept of a Riverside-Downtown streetcar line started gaining critical mass, JTA, which as a matter of practice completely ignores the needs of its ridership, suddenly responded by announcing the Riverside Trolley. But as usual, this is an obvious ploy aimed at killing the discussion of a streetcar, not any effort to serve any actual useful purpose. JTA first designed an intentionally flawed route in an area without demand for the type of service JTA provides. And as if that wasn't already bad enough, the final execution wound up being just taking an existing bus route and re-naming it "Riverside Trolley" and doubling the fares. Nice.

Unfortunately, if history repeats itself, JTA will use the inevitable result as evidence that there is no demand for rail. And that is untrue, and seriously messed up. The Riverside Trolley is already FUBAR before it ever picks up its first rider. But the real problem is JTA's consistent undermining of any efforts to create rail-based transit. Each time they usurp a rail concept and ruin it with crappy buses and incompetent execution, they actually get the benefit of turning around and saying to COJ and the feds "see we told you it wouldn't work."

The whole situation is ridiculous.


tufsu1

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2010, 09:38:45 AM »
Back in the real world, nobody is going to wait an hour in the rain and heat with no shelters, to get on a bus that for no legitimate reason is running an additional hour or two late beyond its absurdly long scheduled headways, and then have to pay for the privilege of dealing with JTA's famously rude/nasty drivers, only to wind up missing whatever meeting they were going to anyway.

agreed...which is why JTA is replacing the 1-hour headway bus with a "trolley" that runs on 10-30 minute headways (depending on time of day)...and also why JTA is installing more shelters throughout town.

as to your concern about the route itself...I am confused...within Riverside and downtown, the proposed route is virtually identical to the current "trolley" route you seem to like....so what's the problem?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 09:40:54 AM by tufsu1 »

Jumpinjack

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2010, 12:56:34 PM »
Actually, St. V's medical staff frequently walks to local eateries and stores. If they parked in the lot, it's a pain to lose your space just to run out for an hour at lunch time or do a little shopping.

In addition, this will be a big boon to seniors who have appointments at the hospital or all the nearby doctor's offices and don't want to deal with the senior bus or arrange a ride with family or friends.

Thank you for listening JTA. 

JeffreyS

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2010, 01:01:54 PM »
It is a great place for transit I just hope they follow through with the plans for real streetcars.
Lenny Smash

thelakelander

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Re: Changes coming to Riverside Trolley Bus
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2010, 01:06:03 PM »
They'll have to be pulled kicking and screaming.  Hopefully, some rail-based mass transit projects will remain in the 2030 Mobility Plan's 5 year priority project list.  At this point, it may be our best shot at getting something off the ground sooner, rather than later.
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