Author Topic: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops  (Read 15886 times)

Live_Oak

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2010, 12:07:12 PM »
No you didn't.  All you did was say he was wrong.  Tufsu1 presented statistics to prove his point.  All you did was talk.

north miami

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2010, 12:15:53 PM »
*** "Jacksonville" Celebrated The Million Mark in 1996 ***
        Joint Barnett Bank/City of Jacksonville effort

From: "Kick Ass"
         Selected Miami Herald columns of Carl Hiaasen
         Univ. Press Of Florida-hard copy edition
         'Choked on Growth'  page 353

February 4,1996

 Weird but true:In Jacksonville,an extravaganza called "Millionth Mania" was recently held to "celebrate" the area's one millionth new resident.
 As if this were a good thing,something to be desired.
 South Floridians can only shake their heads in puzzlement.We stopped celebrating about three million newcommers ago.Today,ascending population in Dade,Broward and Palm Beach are curtly noted and often received with quiet dismay.
 In Jacksonville,they shot off fireworks on the river,while Barbara Eden and Frankie Valli entertained.But not everyone was jumping for joy.
 Mike Webster,a native Miamian,fled to North Florida in 1980.The Jacksonville Yacht broker is a founding member of a small but feisty cell of objectors called the Florida League Against "Progress".
 FLAP has no dues,no officers,no membership rolls and no meetings.What it does have is a plainly articulated position:That Growth for Growth's sake is reckless,and that all Floridians are paying the price in declining quality of life-crime,traffic,gridlock,sprawl,overcrowded schools,more taxes.
 Years ago,FLAP gained modest attention by distributing delightfully seditious bumper stickers that said:LEAVING FLORIDA?TAKE A FRIEND!
 Understandibly,Webster was chagrined when his adopted hometown began to boast about swelling to one million residents.It was the same mentality that had turned South Florida in to a parking lot.
 So fervid was Jacksonville's yearning to reach it's "magnificent milestone" that the city fudged the numbers.Duval County,which defines metropolitan Jacksonville (the entire county) has only about 700,000 people.Therefore,promoters of "Millionth Mania" were compelled to include in their arithmetic the combined census of Duval,Baker,Nassau,Clay and St.Johns counties.
 Technically,it was "northeastern Florida" that two weeks ago welcomed it's one millionth resident.Mike Webster says he was no less alarmed.
 He banged out an irreverent press release that was pretty much ignored by the region's mainstream media.That's too bad,because in it he enunciated what many frustrated Floridians are feeling.
 "For places like Jacksonville," Webster wrote,"the question of growth is not one of right or wrong,but rather of addiction.We have worshipped the lord of growth.We have multiplied,now we must become fruitfull".
 Webster is no new age granola head.A self described conservative Democrat,he was until recently a loyal member of the NRA.He doesn't worry about endangered Panthers so much as farmers,river men and others whose fortunes are jepardized by overdevelopment.
 "Much of what passes for progress isn't," Webster says.He includes himself among the threatened: "If our marine resources collapse,the bottom falls out of the boat business."
 And while FLAP stops shy of advocating a cap on growth,Webster has dryly suggested that Florida will "depromote" itself to slow the influx of new arrivals.
 Which got me thinking:What better way for a city to spook prospective residents than to publicize (with fireworks!) it's own overcrowding.
 Is it possible,I wondered,that FLAP infiltrated Jacksonville's Chamber of Commerce and City Events office? Was Webster himself secretly responsible for the big "Celebration"?
 Though he denies involvement,the phrase "Millionth Mania" certainly has the sly ring of parody.Perhaps it wasn't the hokey,misguided boosterism I first thought.Perhaps it was a prank-a perversely brilliant prank-meant to scare people away from Duval County.
 And it'll probably work.

Captain Zissou

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2010, 12:59:45 PM »
North Miami, I assume you have some affiliation with FLAP as well...

Thanks for posting the article.  It kind of draws attention to the inferiority complex of Jacksonville.  We MUST grow so that we can compete with the 'big boys'.  There are smaller cities who are widely viewed as more successful because they have sound governance and smart policies.  Those areas are experiencing growth as a result. We are more concerned with doing the reverse.  Grow first, then create positive resources to serve our residents. 

I'd be excited for us to never hit 2,000,000 residents if it meant that we would have a healthy downtown and excellent core neighborhoods.  Lets readjust our perspective to concentrate on better serving the residents we already have, not trying to attract one and all with our Disney-fied 'Town Centers' and Stepford-style mega developments.

This does not mean i'm against bringing jobs to town.  We have an overbuilt housing stock as it is.  Let's recruit businesses and fill out our core areas first, then worry about outward growth.  Jobs are what will create a healthy and wealthy city, whether we have 1 or 10 million people.  To do this, we should start with our already strong areas of employment, and work on growing those through partnerships.  Save the money we spend on overpasses and utilities out to the county lines and use it to help a company locate in the core. 

I see jax as a McMansion itself, huge with faux features that lacks a lot of substance.

north miami

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2010, 01:12:10 PM »
North Miami, I assume you have some affiliation with FLAP as well...

Thanks for posting the article.  It kind of draws attention to the inferiority complex of Jacksonville. 

Captain Zissou-note the article references Mike Webster is a native of Miami.That's me; "North Miami"

Captain Zissou

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2010, 01:21:13 PM »
I figured it was you, its just forum etiquette not to say someone's real name if it has not already been mentioned.

Yacht Broker +
Transplant from Miami+
Disgruntled about FL growth+
Posts an article almost 15 years old
= It's probably you in the article.

north miami

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2010, 01:27:42 PM »



Posts an article almost 15 years old

"Millionth Mania" event was indeed 15 years ago.
I knew then,during that era, that a lot of then-current events would not reveal true significance for some time.

tufsu1

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2010, 03:19:24 PM »
Seriously.  look up geometric progression.  Then compare and contrast to proportional relationships.

TUFSU literally does not know what he is talking about, and clearly he has at least one cell mate  ;)

perhaps we can discuss this tonight  ;)

tufsu1

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2010, 09:32:19 PM »
Stephen and I actually discussed this tonight (along with sme other folks)....I do agree with Stephen's math in regards to Miami/Dade...I also showed that proportional growth/loss in Orlando/Orange County was very similar to Jax/Duval.

Overall, growth in Florida slowed significantly in 2008-2009 as more people moved out than moved in (growth only occurred because more people were born than died)...what makes Miami/Dade a bit different is it still has significant in-migration of peole from other countries.

In the end, we both saw the other's point.

thelakelander

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2010, 09:53:27 PM »
The numbers appear to show that Jax's growth has suffered the most out of Florida's top 4 metro areas.  However, I still suspect that our "urban core" (central city) numbers are worse when compared to the actual cities of Orlando, Tampa and Miami. 

For example, Miami is only 35.6 square miles and it has added 70,666 residents since 2000.  There is a great chance that during this same period, Jacksonville's "urban core" (the 30.2 square mile old city) actually lost population.  On the other hand, the majority of cities across the country are gaining population in their urban cores (even many of the rust belt cities).  This is where Jacksonville's true problem lies.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali


tufsu1

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Re: City Population Estimates Released: Jax Rank Drops
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2010, 11:15:01 AM »
and another one....this one is good in that it tries to show urban growth vs. suburban growth.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/06/22/suburb-population-growth-slows/