Author Topic: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway  (Read 8466 times)

Ocklawaha

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 03:13:00 PM »

US?


THEM!

What is Jacksonville thinking?

Mass Transit may never be as convenient as the family Edsel, there are factors that cannot be overcome with today's technologies. Rain, Heat, Shelter, AC, bare blistering bus benches, trash, route permanence, smells, 45 minute headways, door to door, fare, these are just a few of the things a transit manager MUST consider. From that list there are only a few items that we can change and a couple we might even toy with. Rain - Heat - AC? Except for certain firefighting uniforms, I'm not convinced clothing with built in AC is readily available, so one must be intrepid through Rain, Heat, Cold, Gloom of Night... But let's revisit that for a moment, we are in the deep South, why not AC in larger stations such as Kings Avenue, Regency, Avenues, Central, Town Center, and Rosa Parks? Otherwise roof tops, seats, frequency=headways, clean, close by, these are things we CAN effect to near perfection. Route permanence not only sells transit, it builds corridors as people become familiar with the stops and shops along the way. This permanence factor CAN NOT be touched with a highway vehicle, and thus it cannot build Transit Oriented Development as rail vehicles can.

Part of the problem in Jacksonville is the "bare bones transit is for the poor, the Black, the Hispanic, and the liberal," mindset at JTA and CITY HALL. The reason for this is it has largely become truth over the years from 1936 (when we retired streetcars) until today. I'd dare say in 1930 for example, there was probably not a man, woman or child, of any race or station in life that didn't use the streetcars. Why? You won't sell me a line that they couldn't get automobiles, as there were more auto manufacturers and more choices then we have today. The demon is habit, the generation before 1930 had grown up on horseback, and rail was a magic carpet of clean speed and comfort. Electric Rail was one of the wonders of the world.  Transit was not only okay, but in style, only the best and brightest lived near the car lines.  Jump forward 80 years and look where that flexible wonder, the motor bus has gotten us. Consider that JTA want's to build Bus Rapid Transit more to make a statement then to service a need. If the concern were really about service, we would be laying rails, skyway beams, and planning a COMPLIMENTARY BRT system.

The transit focused synergy created by doing transit right will lead to the connectivity, walkabilty, and economic surge we so desire.



OCKLAWAHA
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 03:30:53 PM by Ocklawaha »

stjr

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2010, 01:07:18 AM »
I must respectfully disagree....while most of the improvements are about moving cars, FDOT was light years ahead of other states in including sidewalks and bike lanes in their road projects.

Tufsu, LOL.  I had to check my calender to make sure it wasn't April Fools Day.

If FDOT is years ahead, I would hate to see what years behind is.  OK, if you say they are, I'll take your word for it.

But, I will add it is far, far, short of what it needs and should be.  Those skinny little unprotected bike lanes along 4 and 6 lane state highways don't look like the best solutions for safe biking even if they meet some transportation planner's standards (just using that common sense - I can't help myself).  Would you let your kid ride in one of those bike lanes, if not yourself?

How about building commutable bike TRAILS that are isolated from traffic and go for miles.  Why don't we build one of those jersey barriers along the outer edges of an interstate ROW and give bikes a five to ten foot swath in each direction for their own version of an interstate?  Hey, we can start with 9B since its just beginning construction  ;)

P.S. How many dollars of DOT's budget are allocated to autos versus bikes and pedestrians?  Over 95%?  Whatever it is, I think that says more about DOT's relative priorities than anything else.


Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

CS Foltz

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2010, 09:51:49 AM »
stjr.............your right and tufsu is not with the program, safetywise! I can picture him now .....riding his bicycle along I-95 and nothing between him and all of that traffic!

Doctor_K

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2010, 11:33:26 AM »
Aren't bikes prohibited from the interstate?
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stjr

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2010, 12:16:02 PM »
Aren't bikes prohibited from the interstate?

Dr, not what I am saying.  I am suggesting a parallel pathway segregated from the interstate by a barrier and at the edge of its ROW which is typically far wider than the paved road itself.
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

Mattius92

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2010, 12:44:57 PM »
Isn't there plenty of side roads and alleys that are much safer, funner and much more enjoyable then riding next to a busy highway or road. Why do we need to spend money on building bikeways next to highways when we can just build them along less busy roads.
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tufsu1

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »
stjr.............your right and tufsu is not with the program, safetywise! I can picture him now .....riding his bicycle along I-95 and nothing between him and all of that traffic!

do some research on implementation of sidewalks, bicycle lanes, and trails by state DOTs and then let me know how FDOT compares to others around the country.

tufsu1

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2010, 02:15:07 PM »
How about building commutable bike TRAILS that are isolated from traffic and go for miles.  Why don't we build one of those jersey barriers along the outer edges of an interstate ROW and give bikes a five to ten foot swath in each direction for their own version of an interstate?  Hey, we can start with 9B since its just beginning construction  ;)

take a look at the Suncoast Parkway...built by an arm of FDOT

thelakelander

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2010, 02:19:27 PM »


Quote
The Suncoast Trail is officially designated as part of Florida’s Statewide Greenways and Trails System. Opened in 2001, this non-motorized paved trail was developed as part of the Suncoast Parkway. Paralleling the parkway, the trail begins in northern Hillsborough County and proceeds north through Pasco and Hernando counties, traversing suburban, agricultural and natural areas. Throughout the trail, rest/interpretive areas illustrate historical significance, emphasize transitions between ecological communities and identify native species. Among the trail’s highlights is the segment adjacent to the Jay B. Starkey Wilderness Park. This section crosses various rivers and creeks, including the Anclote and Pithlachascotee, and provides views of beautiful natural communities. The Suncoast Trail will eventually serve as a key regional connector, linking to other projects such as the Good Neighbor Trail, the Upper Tampa Bay Trail and the Pinellas Trail.
http://www.dep.state.fl.us/gwt/guide/regions/westcentral/trails/suncoast.htm

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Mattius92

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2010, 02:34:01 PM »
Now thats nice, just which road in Jax would we do such a thing.
SunRail, Florida's smart transit idea. :) (now up on the chopping block) :(

tufsu1

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2010, 03:20:39 PM »
could be done with SR 9B...or even more likely, the future OIuter Beltway

thelakelander

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2010, 03:28:54 PM »
Various forms could also be done along MLK Parkway east of I-95, Southside Blvd, Philips Highway, Roosevelt Blvd, North Main Street and a host of other existing highways with decent ROW.
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stjr

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2010, 01:36:36 AM »
Talk is cheap.  Where's the beef?

Why does South Florida have this and we don't?  For a fraction of the JTB I-95 interchange, we could have these pathways along all our local stretches of expressways and interstates.

I suspect the various districts of FDOT have different approaches to their missions.  I was just in South Florida recently, and it was hard to believe that their state roads were built by the same agency as ours.  I am not saying they were better, just different.  What was noticeable was the vastly heavier landscaping on the non-interstate highways, including fully landscaped medians with large trees (not a mini-tree every 50 feet), and rows of large trees between sidewalks and the curb.  Some of that may be done by the local cities, but it's on state highways.  I have seen much the same in Savannah.  Drive the stretch of Abercorn street from the riverfront south to the suburbs to see one of the fullest tree canopies I have seen on an urban 4 lane road.  We could do a lot more in this area.
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

Mattius92

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2010, 12:31:23 PM »
Naww, the FDOT and COJ will just put down more useless Palm Trees. I am was appalled when I was riding down I-295 N (the part north of I-10), the other day and I seen all these new palm trees they put up. I was like come on, like we need more palm trees.
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Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Kings Road Pedestrian Enhancement Project Underway
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2010, 12:43:01 PM »
Landscaping is poor through out most of North Florida and Palm trees are not useless.