Five Reasons to Address The Landing Parking Situation

[brainstormer]

^ Good idea vic!  Anyone know if this is a realistic solution?

[CS Foltz]

If they are sitting still, empty and dark at night, not to mention ......not being used then I have to ask....WTF? I don't see any reason why they could not be used and would help the revenue problem the City has with something coming in! Stupid city administration is not making the best use of what they have available! Might have something to do with the incompetent people running things from the mayor down!

[cityimrov]

I'm reading this situation and I'm getting confused by the various comments around here and in Jacksonville.com. 

For example, one argument is: "There's 5 extra spaces next to me when I parked at the Landing thus no extra parking is needed."  I'm trying to figure out this argument.  Let's say a fancy restaurant like Cheesecake Factory opened up with 30 tables (I'm being extremely conservative).  Each one of those tables is occupied by at least 1 family which needs 1 car.  That's at least 30 cars.  I'm guessing there's also 30 more families outside waiting for a spot so that's 30 more cars.  How can 5 extra spaces support 60 cars?  That argument doesn't make sense to me and that's just ONE fancy restaurant.  Imagine if the landing had 10 of those plus fancy shops.  Can someone explain this reasoning to me? 


"4.  The city lots don't seem to be where people want to go.  For example, why would I park in the Water Street Garage?  There isn't much near it to go to.  Why would I park in the Courthouse Garage?  Two huge garages no where near points of interest for someone who doesn't work downtown.  They sit empty while people complain about not enough parking and while the city fails to live up to its promise."

I'll take a wild guess shot at this  Compromise!!!  The taxpayers hate spending money.  Thus the government finds the cheapest land it can find.  Usually it finds land that it owns.  Thus a win-win situation!  An area needs a parking garage and the taxpayer saves money building it at land it already owns since people go nuts when they find out a city owned land is a few blocks to an expensive lot.  I mean, the taxpayer is willing to walk the extra blocks needed to the venue since it saved them a ton of money compared to buying an empty lot next to an expensive tower, right?  Win-Win, right??

[JC]

anyway believe it or not JC the NS is not really rural anymore.

Yeah, its changed a lot in the 14 years I have been around.  It started getting strange when they dropped the Advanced Auto Parts in front of Oceanway Auto Parts.  But a Red Lobster, who'd a thunk it even 3 years ago?  But really though, aside from the little shopping enclaves, the area hasn't changed too much.  Although, 10.00 for two one topping slices and a pop strikes me more as a Mid-Town Manhattan price than a Renna's of Oceanway price.  

[Debbie Thompson]

When the Landing first opened, and the City had not fulfilled its parking obligation, the City instead compromised by providing parking at the Water Street Garage and a free shuttle to the Landing if people didn't want to walk the 4 or 5 blocks.  I didn't work.  It was inconvenient waiting at both ends for the shuttle, and much easier to go to a suburban mall where you can park outside your destination with no hassles.  Unless the City provides the 23-years-ago promised convenient parking, the Landing will continue to struggle.

[thelakelander]

That's a problem.  Its not the easiest thing to sign a contract with someone in hope that the city will live up to their end of the bargin.  This was done with Rouse 23 years ago and the city has still not delivered.  The city has an obligation and they should live up to it, regardless of if Sleiman has someone signed or not.  What happened to keeping your word without strings attached?

[Steve]

If COJ won't play ball with Mr. Sleiman could he go ahead and buy the lot, solve his parking issue and continue to operate the Landing rent-free because COJ didn't fulfill their obligation?

Good question!

Agreed - not sure what happens there.  My guess is Sleiman doesn't want to stroke a 5 million dollar check, when the City has an obligation to do so.

[designermillion]

I can tell you why I never go to the Landing...There is nothing to attract me to downtown!  I used to work in the area and the streets are not easy to navigate (too many one-ways) and the parking was always a nightmare.  Not to mention the homeless situation.  I never felt safe.  I've lived in Jacksonville for close to 10 years, and I have been to the Landing twice.  Both times for lunch.  Both restaurants are now closed.  I couldn't even tell you what stores/restaurants are located there now.  I just avoid downtown unless I absolutely have to go there.  Why would I drive all the way down there and get involved in that mess when I can go to St Johns Town Center?  It's much more convenient.  Although it is sometimes hard to find a parking place, at least I don't have to pay for parking, walk 5 blocks, ride a trolley or have to worry about being accosted by a homeless person.  I want to park near where I'm shopping or dining and I don't want to have to worry about my safety.  I always thought the Landing was a good idea IF we had a vibrant downtown, but we just don't.  Both Miami (Bayside) and Tampa (Channelside) have something similar, but if it weren't for the tourist, I don't think they'd survive either.  I used to live in Miami, and the locals just don't go to Bayside.  It's supported by tourist from the cruise terminal and Miami Beach.  I've also been to Channelside, and same scenario.  Cruise terminal and Florida Aquarium tourist.  We don't even have that draw at the Landing (our cruise terminal is a joke).  I've also lived in Phoenix and we had something similar there too called the Arizona Center.  It's been failing as well.  Downtown just isn't the place to be, no matter where you live.   It's just unfortunate because the Landing has a beautiful location, it's just surrounded by a bad set of circumstances.

[Steve]

^I don't think this is a national problem.  You've named three cities (and I'd disagree about Downtown Miami - there are plenty of folks down there, and I can't speak for Phoenix, sa I've never been there).  However, take a look through the site, as we've compared literally over 100 cities and their urban cores. Personally, I'd highly recommend San Diego, Portland, Greenville, Charlotte, and Nashville to name a few.

I'd also say that in those cities, if they saw an opportunity to invest 3.5 million, solve a 23 year obligation, and make money on it in three years, they'd be all over that

[tufsu1]

Why would I drive all the way down there and get involved in that mess when I can go to St Johns Town Center?

it is all a matter of perception....personally, I dread going to the Town Center on weekends because traffic in and out of the center has become quite cumbersome...just try getting off JTB, go north on Gate, and then turn right onto Town Center Pkwy.

one other thing....the Town Center can't offer the river view, live music, or people watching experience of the Landing...all free entertainment!

[finehoe]

...we had something similar there...It's been failing as well.  Downtown just isn't the place to be, no matter where you live.

I think that statement is only half true.  Yes, most of these "festival marketplaces" aren't doing so well.  Even Harborplace in Baltimore, the granddaddy of them all, is a shadow of its former glory.  They were an eighties phenomenon and whatever novelty value they had is long gone.  The model of plopping a suburban-style shopping mall (complete with parking ) in the middle of downtown as a means of "revitalization" has run its course (if it was ever viable to begin with).

But I don't agree that downtowns aren't the place to be.  Plenty of downtowns in the US have experienced revivals in the last decade (some of them documented in MetroJax's excellent Elements series).  Jacksonville has the potential.  It just needs the will.

[CS Foltz]

finehoe...........I agree! Any downtown has potential and Jacksonville's more than some! It will take a plan that actually makes sense and can be funded! DVI is a waste since they are just parroting basically the same points that were done by the Austin group back in 78(if I remember the year right!) How many study groups and consultants have gone down the same path since then and what do we have? About $1 Billion Dollars later, same mantra and same issue's! A new Administration with a plan, a vision and the cajones would go far to doing something in a positive way! Mobility Plan 2030 may be the beginning......time will tell!

[Keith-N-Jax]

Why would I drive all the way down there and get involved in that mess when I can go to St Johns Town Center?

I dred going to the town center. I've been there only twice, and I feel perfectly safe downtown.

[JC]

So there was a lot of people at the landing, the entire outdoor space was packed and so were all the restaurants, food court was about 20% but seriously there were a ton of people. 

Where did they park
?

[Keith-N-Jax]

Where did the people from the SB park?