Five Reasons to Address The Landing Parking Situation

[thelakelander]

Well, just to throw in a few cents.  I think residents are severely misguided if they are expecting private investors and the government to build a community that does not exist. 

Interesting. I don't think there is one city in this country that was not established by private investors, government or a mix of both.

[avonjax]

People drive to NYC why?  The traffic is horrendous, in spite of how safe it actually is, it still feels unsafe and you really have to be on guard.  Parking is a nightmare, if you can find a curbside spot its outrageous and the time is limited during normal business hours.  The parking signs are extremely ambiguous.  On a personal note, I parked under conflicting "no parking" "no standing" signs and my car was towed, 3 hours $200.00 and a long trip from the West Village to the impound somewhere in the 70s at the West Side Highway, I got my car back.  NYPD had even broken into my car, in order to "secure some valuables" that they saw.  Oh and the parking ticket was 95.00 American Dollars, so, with postage, I paid just under three hundred dollars for some bs signage.  Then there is the issue of parking garages, which, admittedly I have found a website to get parking for 12 to 18 dollars for 12 hours.  

Then there is Metro North, really a great idea, but VERY expensive and not really all that comfortable.  To ride 70 miles from Poughkeepsie NY to Grand Central costs 37.06 peak and 27.56 off peak for a round trip ticket.  For a monthly unlimited pass you are talking 367.00 dollars.  Then a monthly unlimited bus and subway pass costs 90.00 a month.  Also, parking at the Poughkeepsie train station was 3.00 a day.  All totaled for a monthly expense of around 520.00.  

So, driving sucks and is expensive and public transportation is also expensive, yet people are still drawn to NY, for work and entertainment.  People are willing to endure some serious inconveniences, homeless on the subway, noise, expensive food, and so on.  They endure because NY is amazing, its a great place to work, find entertainment, you can find great food of any variety, an extreme variety of culture is everywhere.  

Contrast with Jacksonville, the parking is cheap, its not hard to find no matter what anyone says.  The public transportation is not expensive, although not abundant, with a little planning it can be integrated into a personal trip downtown.  

I honestly think that anyone who says parking is their reason for not visiting downtown is making excuses!

JC, you are correct. I hope I understood what you meant, but the parking is as much about drawing a large national chain who require a guranteed number of parking spaces that at this time the Landing cannot.
There is no guarantee that a Cheesecake Factory, PF Chang's or Barnes and Noble, just to name 3,  would bring people to the Landing, but based on the success they are having in other parts of town, it's likely. There are a lot of people living closer to the Landing than the other major shopping centers in Jacksonville. I'm pretty sure they would rather drive 4 or 5 miles miles instead of 20 to go to these places. And you get a river view to boot.

[avonjax]

Another argument against developing downtown was a member of MADD who said having clubs and such downtown would require drunk people having to drive much further to get home, thus endangering more people. It would have been funny had it not be so pathetic..

[JC]

Well, just to throw in a few cents.  I think residents are severely misguided if they are expecting private investors and the government to build a community that does not exist. 

Interesting. I don't think there is one city in this country that was not established by private investors, government or a mix of both.

Please reread my post, I said "community" not "establish" a "city."  Community is far different, than buildings and parking spaces, its these pub crawls, art walks, farmers markets and what not.  If these activities are happening in great enough number, than people will spend more time downtown and the face of downtown will change drastically.  But it is the intangibles that need to be established, love, pride, and so forth.  I know that when I step out onto 42nd street from GCT and smell the kabobs, car exhaust, expensive perfume, piss, and body odor, I am in the city I love and regardless of any parking issue, or cheese cake factory.  Its the place I love to be because I have a community there, both in the Carpenters Union and in the Indymedia circles.  I know that I can go to PJ Clarke's at Lincoln Square on a Friday at noon and I will probably know someone, and if I dont, I will see a fellow union brother or sister I can strike up a conversation with.  I can go to 169 Bar on East Broadway on a Friday night and I will have friends there.  I dont need to make plans to get together with people, or to have something in common with them.  And it is that commonality that makes NY great, for ME.  It is this COMMUNITY established by people who live in and love that city.  

All these things are possible in Jacksonville, and I plan to be more involved.  I have only been back two weeks and have met a great poetry community and did a volunteer photo shoot at the library.  Its not hard to be involved and to build that community.  

The whole reason I am on this forum is to build that community and it is that community and communities like it that will make the city better.  Not some bullshit parking lot or development project so someone can make a bunch of money!  

[JC]

People drive to NYC why?  The traffic is horrendous, in spite of how safe it actually is, it still feels unsafe and you really have to be on guard.  Parking is a nightmare, if you can find a curbside spot its outrageous and the time is limited during normal business hours.  The parking signs are extremely ambiguous.  On a personal note, I parked under conflicting "no parking" "no standing" signs and my car was towed, 3 hours $200.00 and a long trip from the West Village to the impound somewhere in the 70s at the West Side Highway, I got my car back.  NYPD had even broken into my car, in order to "secure some valuables" that they saw.  Oh and the parking ticket was 95.00 American Dollars, so, with postage, I paid just under three hundred dollars for some bs signage.  Then there is the issue of parking garages, which, admittedly I have found a website to get parking for 12 to 18 dollars for 12 hours.  

Then there is Metro North, really a great idea, but VERY expensive and not really all that comfortable.  To ride 70 miles from Poughkeepsie NY to Grand Central costs 37.06 peak and 27.56 off peak for a round trip ticket.  For a monthly unlimited pass you are talking 367.00 dollars.  Then a monthly unlimited bus and subway pass costs 90.00 a month.  Also, parking at the Poughkeepsie train station was 3.00 a day.  All totaled for a monthly expense of around 520.00.  

So, driving sucks and is expensive and public transportation is also expensive, yet people are still drawn to NY, for work and entertainment.  People are willing to endure some serious inconveniences, homeless on the subway, noise, expensive food, and so on.  They endure because NY is amazing, its a great place to work, find entertainment, you can find great food of any variety, an extreme variety of culture is everywhere.  

Contrast with Jacksonville, the parking is cheap, its not hard to find no matter what anyone says.  The public transportation is not expensive, although not abundant, with a little planning it can be integrated into a personal trip downtown.  

I honestly think that anyone who says parking is their reason for not visiting downtown is making excuses!

JC, you are correct. I hope I understood what you meant, but the parking is as much about drawing a large national chain who require a guranteed number of parking spaces that at this time the Landing cannot.
There is no guarantee that a Cheesecake Factory, PF Chang's or Barnes and Noble, just to name 3,  would bring people to the Landing, but based on the success they are having in other parts of town, it's likely. There are a lot of people living closer to the Landing than the other major shopping centers in Jacksonville. I'm pretty sure they would rather drive 4 or 5 miles miles instead of 20 to go to these places. And you get a river view to boot.

I just dont place a huge value on these chains, city government should (and maybe does) help create entrepreneurial opportunities for Jacksonville locals, it should not be pissing away money on chains that are going to provide two or three good paying jobs and 30 minimum wage jobs.  City government should also make development agreements that force contractors to use local labor, and union labor when available to build these projects. 

[fsujax]

I really believe a Cheesecake Fatory, or whatever.....could do much better DT at the Landing than say at SJTC, doesn't being on the river overlooking DT beat sitting in a restaurant surrounded by suburban parking lots?

[duvaldude08]

I have to chime in and say parking is an issue with the Landing. I always dred going down there. I either have to drive forever to find a place to park, where I wont be towed or ticketed, then have to walk blocks to get there. I use their gargage, but its so expensive! I needed to run in there for something one day and they said it was 5.00 to park. I refuse to pay 5.00 to park for 10 minutes. And dont think about going down there Florida Georgia weekend. You have to get there super early to find parking. I rode down there one year and just drove around for like 30 minutes and got aggravated so I went home. Parking is an issue downtown... At night. Its not as bad during the day. ( i dont think)

[finehoe]

Just tell me what you think and your ideas?

Go to my profile and click on "Show the last posts of this person" and read what I have written over the last six months or so and that should tell you what I think and what my ideas are.

[fsujax]

well, then it sounds like it's time for Sleiman to prove it to the City, that he actually has a deal to work with.

On a side note, went DT at lunch today. Parked on Pearl St between Adams and Forsyth. I counted 8 empty metered spots on two short blocks! Like it has been stated earlier, parking is pretty easy, it's just made diificult by poor signage or old as hell meters!

[JC]

Oh, and as for Barnes and Noble, I dont want them anywhere within competing distance of Chamblin. I understand its a somewhat different market but Chamblin has a nice little cafe where you can read your new purchases which is something similar to what the big box book stores offer.  

[thelakelander]

Well, just to throw in a few cents.  I think residents are severely misguided if they are expecting private investors and the government to build a community that does not exist.  

Interesting. I don't think there is one city in this country that was not established by private investors, government or a mix of both.

Please reread my post, I said "community" not "establish" a "city."  Community is far different, than buildings and parking spaces, its these pub crawls, art walks, farmers markets and what not.  If these activities are happening in great enough number, than people will spend more time downtown and the face of downtown will change drastically.  But it is the intangibles that need to be established, love, pride, and so forth.  I know that when I step out onto 42nd street from GCT and smell the kabobs, car exhaust, expensive perfume, piss, and body odor, I am in the city I love and regardless of any parking issue, or cheese cake factory.  Its the place I love to be because I have a community there, both in the Carpenters Union and in the Indymedia circles.  I know that I can go to PJ Clarke's at Lincoln Square on a Friday at noon and I will probably know someone, and if I dont, I will see a fellow union brother or sister I can strike up a conversation with.  I can go to 169 Bar on East Broadway on a Friday night and I will have friends there.  I dont need to make plans to get together with people, or to have something in common with them.  And it is that commonality that makes NY great, for ME.  It is this COMMUNITY established by people who live in and love that city.

Gotcha.  We're using different terminology but we basically mean the same thing. In my eyes, "Community" is just another form of "private investment".  Nevertheless, we need a mix of all.  Community, what you describe as private investment and even the government on board to make this baby work.  All play an important role in the creation of vibrancy, should be coordinated with one another and none completely ignored.

[thelakelander]

If downtown doesnt stop treating its parking system like a large scale type of crack rock, then nothing will continue to happen.

In talking with the Mayor's office, apparently they have offered to help out if anyone can produce any proof that there is actually a deal in the works that is contingent on these parking spaces.

I'm sorry but this is part of the problem.  Why does meeting your decades old obligation have to come with proof of an actual deal in the works?  This requirement was meet by Rouse and the city still never lived up to its end of the bargin.  Do these guys understand how major retail development works?  Can someone give Ben Carter a call and ask him if any of his major retailers required a certain number of parking spaces before signing a deal to come to SJTC?  If he can't be reached, try Regency Centers and ask them the same question.  You're not going to revitalize much in DT with an outlook like that.  If we can't change our thinking, we'll be looking at a slug of a downtown for years to come, regardless of how much money is poured into projects like Laura Street.

[CS Foltz]

Anyone care to make a bet about "Parking" for the Landing? Nothing will come from the mayors office other than rhetoric and fancy new three letter acronyms! There will be nothing done about the Landing's parking issue....................any takers? (Hope to hell I am wrong but I just gotta feeling!)

[thelakelander]

I just dont place a huge value on these chains, city government should (and maybe does) help create entrepreneurial opportunities for Jacksonville locals, it should not be pissing away money on chains that are going to provide two or three good paying jobs and 30 minimum wage jobs.  City government should also make development agreements that force contractors to use local labor, and union labor when available to build these projects.

Personally, I'm not crazy about them either but putting biases aside, the game is all about foot traffic and creating synergy.  A better utilized and integrated Landing puts more people on downtown's streets.  More people on downtown's streets creates opportunities for redevelopment and local spots on those streets.  More people creates more synergy and the next thing you know, you have a vibrant 24/7 atmosphere.  On the other hand, a dying major anchor as the centerpiece of downtown doesn't help anyone interested in seeing downtown go from an ugly duckling into a swan.

[thelakelander]

Lake, you know that I agree, and have stated on many occasions that the City needs to make good on its deal.

I just don't understand what would be so difficult in taking one of the many empty city parking garages and establishing a short trolley line from the parking garage to the landing.

Wouldnt that be cheaper than anything else?  If trolleys are 5 million a mile, is that proportional?  Could we connect a garage that is six blocks away by short trolley line?

In this city, nearly everything is more difficult than it has to be.  Judging from how things operate, your idea will end in flames when JTA decides to not run that trolley on nights and weekends.....hmmm sound familiar? 

Seriously, the easiest and most simple thing to do with to work with the guy and have him purchase that existing lot, call it a day and start collecting rent money.