Five Reasons to Address The Landing Parking Situation

[thelakelander]

Regarding same ole, same ole, the center has had two dominent common characteristics: Vacancies and a lack of dedicated parking.  What's there now tells us what doesn't work and hasn't for two decades.  Its time to try another path.

[tufsu1]

I am sure that all the original tenants when the Landing opened in 87 invested in the project because of the promise of close, dedicated parking. They included for those new to Jax or don't remember:
Banana Republic
J. Riggins
Musicland (Or a similar large record store chain)
Victoria's Secret
The Limited
Sharper Image
Brookestone
Laura Ashley
The Gap
Lerner's New York
And several local chains.
and several others that are not immediately coming to mind.
This was our first Banana Republic, Sharper Image, Laura Ashley and Brookestone.

somewhat true...but it also had to do with the clout Rouse had in the national retail (shopping mall) market....they seeded most of their festival marketplaces this way and justabout all have changed since.

[thelakelander]

Rouse most likely would have never built the project without the city agreeing to provide dedicated parking.  Not saying this is what DT Jax needs, but even in Norfolk the festival market model has changed but Waterside still features restaurants like Outback Steakhouse, Jillians and Joe's Crab Shack.  However, it also has a huge parking garage directly attached to it.  No matter how hard Jax tries to deny it, there is a correlation between providing dedicated parking and securing national tenants.

[tufsu1]

agreed

[finehoe]

Regarding same ole, same ole, the center has had two dominent common characteristics: Vacancies and a lack of dedicated parking.  What's there now tells us what doesn't work and hasn't for two decades.  Its time to try another path.

If you read my previous post, I agree that the city should honor its commitment.  I'm just not going to hold my breath waiting for the "new" parking to result in any significant changes.

[thelakelander]

I understood you, but generating revenue from the Landing site would be a significant change.  As for a total remake of the Landing, I agree it will take more. Namely, selling the land underneath the Landing to Sleiman.

[avonjax]

Just don't be surprised if after those spaces are provided, some other "shortcoming" is trotted out on why the Landing isn't a fully-leased success. But finehoe that's the point. It's that negative view that poisons Jacksonville. One of my favorite arguments, frequently found at Jax.com message boards is, "I don't want any more of my tax money dumped on a losing venture. (Downtown - That is not a direct quote just paraphrasing)." The problem is, and the most shocking, is, and correct me Lake if I'm wrong on this figure, 28 or so million on lost rent. If the city openly blew 28 million on a downtown project or even attempted to throw that much money on any single venture, the people of Jax would need strait jackets.

[finehoe]

I understand, Avon.  You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger fan of downtown's potential than me.  But I also understand why those posters you refer to have their attitude.  Thirty-plus years of grand plans and public investment overseen by incompetent leadership resulting in a downtown that (as lakelander so wonderfully put it) resembles a scene from 28 Days Later is enough to make anyone skeptical of whatever the latest plan de jour is.

I say give Sleiman his parking, and let's hope it does the trick.  But let's be realistic as well and not look at this as another in a long line of silver bullets that will somehow turn things around.

[thelakelander]

Speaking of 28 Days Later, the only thing missing from my walk on Forsyth Street Monday night, was a couple of zombies from the BB&T tower to chase me to the Landing.

I say give Sleiman his parking, and let's hope it does the trick.  But let's be realistic as well and not look at this as another in a long line of silver bullets that will somehow turn things around.

I agree.  There is no one trick pony that will turn around our slug overnight.  We'll need more than the Landing filled with a couple of new storefronts.  However, upgrading and integrating this complex would be a step in the right direction for a change.

[Steve]

^The thing to me is that the expense to the city is 3.5 million, but at that point, the landing would then start paying the $1 million/yr in rent on the land that they aren't paying now.  It doesn't add parking spaces to downtown (Because MORE is not needed), and in 3.5 years, the city starts making money on this.  Why is this a bad thing in any way?

[avonjax]

I understand, Avon.  You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger fan of downtown's potential than me.  But I also understand why those posters you refer to have their attitude.  Thirty-plus years of grand plans and public investment overseen by incompetent leadership resulting in a downtown that (as lakelander so wonderfully put it) resembles a scene from 28 Days Later is enough to make anyone skeptical of whatever the latest plan de jour is.

I say give Sleiman his parking, and let's hope it does the trick.  But let's be realistic as well and not look at this as another in a long line of silver bullets that will somehow turn things around.

I am not trying to convince you....
What are your ideas?
Just let downtown stay like it is?
Or better yet get worse?
Just tell me what you think and your ideas?

[JC]

People drive to NYC why?  The traffic is horrendous, in spite of how safe it actually is, it still feels unsafe and you really have to be on guard.  Parking is a nightmare, if you can find a curbside spot its outrageous and the time is limited during normal business hours.  The parking signs are extremely ambiguous.  On a personal note, I parked under conflicting "no parking" "no standing" signs and my car was towed, 3 hours $200.00 and a long trip from the West Village to the impound somewhere in the 70s at the West Side Highway, I got my car back.  NYPD had even broken into my car, in order to "secure some valuables" that they saw.  Oh and the parking ticket was 95.00 American Dollars, so, with postage, I paid just under three hundred dollars for some bs signage.  Then there is the issue of parking garages, which, admittedly I have found a website to get parking for 12 to 18 dollars for 12 hours.  

Then there is Metro North, really a great idea, but VERY expensive and not really all that comfortable.  To ride 70 miles from Poughkeepsie NY to Grand Central costs 37.06 peak and 27.56 off peak for a round trip ticket.  For a monthly unlimited pass you are talking 367.00 dollars.  Then a monthly unlimited bus and subway pass costs 90.00 a month.  Also, parking at the Poughkeepsie train station was 3.00 a day.  All totaled for a monthly expense of around 520.00.  

So, driving sucks and is expensive and public transportation is also expensive, yet people are still drawn to NY, for work and entertainment.  People are willing to endure some serious inconveniences, homeless on the subway, noise, expensive food, and so on.  They endure because NY is amazing, its a great place to work, find entertainment, you can find great food of any variety, an extreme variety of culture is everywhere.  

Contrast with Jacksonville, the parking is cheap, its not hard to find no matter what anyone says.  The public transportation is not expensive, although not abundant, with a little planning it can be integrated into a personal trip downtown.  

I honestly think that anyone who says parking is their reason for not visiting downtown is making excuses!

[JC]

I understand, Avon.  You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger fan of downtown's potential than me.  But I also understand why those posters you refer to have their attitude.  Thirty-plus years of grand plans and public investment overseen by incompetent leadership resulting in a downtown that (as lakelander so wonderfully put it) resembles a scene from 28 Days Later is enough to make anyone skeptical of whatever the latest plan de jour is.

I say give Sleiman his parking, and let's hope it does the trick.  But let's be realistic as well and not look at this as another in a long line of silver bullets that will somehow turn things around.

I am not trying to convince you....
What are your ideas?
Just let downtown stay like it is?
Or better yet get worse?
Just tell me what you think and your ideas?

Well, just to throw in a few cents.  I think residents are severely misguided if they are expecting private investors and the government to build a community that does not exist. 

[avonjax]

I say give Sleiman his parking, and let's hope it does the trick.  But let's be realistic as well and not look at this as another in a long line of silver bullets that will somehow turn things around.

It seems that you have already conceded that this will not work. This seems to be the prevailing attitude with so many people in Jacksonville. That's why I defend my view.
If there was a better perception of downtown in general including crime, things to do, nightlife so on maybe more people would give it a try.
Do you go to Art Walk? Or other things to do downtown?
MOCAJ? The Downtown Library?
Just curious is all
I have lived in Jax for the better part of 58 years and I've seen a vibrant downtown and watched it decline. There is absolutely no reason why it can't be brought back to a great community.
But it will never happen if we just sit back and whine about how it will never work.
And freak out every time a dime is spent by the city.
Downtown is as important a part of Jacksonville as every other neighborhood, and like it or not, it's what casual visitors judge the entire area by when they pass through. If it looks like 28 Days Later, that's what they will view us as. That's not good enough for me.

[thelakelander]

I honestly think that anyone who says parking is their reason for not visiting downtown is making excuses!

This isn't the issue.  Dedicated parking required to attract first rate tenants is.

Sleiman said the future of the Landing lies with restaurants and entertainment venues. When he contacts national chains, such as Cheesecake Factory and P.F. Chang's, he said, a conversation-ending question is whether he can dedicate 150 spaces for the restaurant's use.

He said he can't make that commitment now because the mall's existing lot has 240 spaces, so the Landing's other restaurants and stores would get squeezed on parking needs for their customers.

Councilman Clark gets it....

City Council President Richard Clark, who favors Sleiman's request, said the type of parking facility doesn't matter, so long as it meets the Landing's needs.

"They're talking semantics," Clark said of the mayor's office. "The goal isn't a parking garage. The goal isn't a floating barge with cars on it. The goal is dedicated parking for the Landing."

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-04-08/story/mayor’s-office-balks-landing-owner’s-plea-parking-subsidy