Florida High Speed Rail Officially Announced

[thelakelander]

Jax has no HSR funding because it was never a real part of the planning process.  Those guys in Central and South Florida have been planning this stuff for years and that's why its considered "shovel ready."

That was the point I was trying to make.  We didn't get funds because we haven't been planning an HSR route like others have.  It wasn't because we didn't show up at one meeting.

Cline, you are correct.  Not showing up at meetings over an entire decade has Jax where it is today.  Not showing up a one meeting wasn't going to change anything in regards to the $8 billion for HSR.  

Unless we plan to pay for our future with only local dollars that don't exist, its time we start showing up at all of them.

[tufsu1]

so what happened to Texas.....they had a great HSR plan and only got $4 million?

[cline]

Not showing up at meetings over an entire decade has Jax where it is today.

Agreed.

[BridgeTroll]

so what happened to Texas.....they had a great HSR plan and only got $4 million?

The Bush family calls it home?

[tufsu1]

Not showing up at the meeting that was pretty much required to know how to apply for the money was a deal killer for Jacksonville Cline.

the applications were submitted by FDOT...and the decision that HSR is Tampa-Orlando-Miami was made in 1998, not at the Orlando meeting.

[tufsu1]

TUFSU, this is also complete bollocks in the context of the meeting which discussed a new funding program announced a couple of months earlier.

Which funding program is that....the one for construction of shovel-ready projects....or the miniscule $6 million for planning studies?

Remember that the Amtrak on FEC was also part of Florida's application...so Jax. was included....unfortunately it doesn't look like that one will be funded yet...even with the support of Brown, Mica, and Nelson!

[tufsu1]

The 8 billion set aside by the Congress for transportation is a separate issue from the Stimulus package as you well know.

actually I didn't know that...I'm pretty sure it is part of ARRA, otherwise known as the stimulus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2818383020100128?type=marketsNews

[thelakelander]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/national/article1068768.ece

[Ocklawaha]

THat goes nowhere and connects nothing.  Hey!  It's the Central Florida Skyway!

because downtown Tampa is nowhere/nothing?

btw, another article

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/jan/28/florida-awaits-obamas-high-speed-rail-announcement/news-politics/

I think DoctorK pretty well summed it up. The station in the middle of NOTHING is no closer to downtown then the classic Tampa Union Station, and has ZERO supporting infrastructure. A good solution for Tampax is to slide those tracks over and get into Tampa Union Station, right alongside Amtrak, Greyhound, Light Rail and HART bus.

Abandoning the Orlando Airport for a connection with the CSX would open up the entire metro to High Speed Rail. I'd be MUCH more likely to ride a HSR train from Lake Mary to International Parkway at 30 mph, then I would spending 50 minutes fighting that damn traffic to a damned inconvenient airport, paying for parking, paying for ticket, and then riding another 50 minutes to my favorite freeway interchange in Tampax. Considering a 20 minute delay at Orlando International Airport between parking and boarding a train, my net trip becomes 120 minutes! 120 minutes or TWO HOURS for a trip that would take 1 hour and 28 minutes if I stayed in my car!!

I sure as hell wouldn't build a high speed "hub" with right angle 90 and 100 degree turns in the distant edge of Orlando. Anytime you include right angles in your track plan, someone will quickly figure out that they can cut across the corners and save time. Right angles as-in St. Petersburg - Miami VIA Tampa!  If Amtrak rerouted one conventional train at 79 mph, Tampa - Miami, VIA: Bartow - Sebring - Okeechobee - West Palm - Miami would beat or match the Rocket Powered Rat Train.

Yea pretty much. Also did you see "No train type has been chosen, though the state prefers a train powered by electricity, most likely from overhead lines, records indicate."

OVERHEAD LINES? How tacky!

Maybe so, but a single power wire down the center of a railroad track is a whole lot LESS tacky then driving in a cloud of smog that resembles twilight at high noon.  If you want it environmentally friendly = ELECTRIC, If you want it fuel efficient = ELECTRIC, If you want it quiet = ELECTRIC, If you want fast acceleration and deceleration = ELECTRIC, If you want superior braking = ELECTRIC, If you want multiple power sources = ELECTRIC...   Well it DOES have a few advantages.

This plan is headed where the SKYWAY has gone before... BONK! When Tallahassee wakes up (assuming they still have brain wave activity) someone is going to realize that SOUTHEAST HIGH SPEED RAIL (2 Routes), GULF COAST HIGH SPEED RAIL, and phase 104 of the FLORIDA HIGH SPEED RAIL, all meet in Jacksonville! That is why it is called a "HUB". It's something created by demand and geography, not by mice.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Abandoning the Orlando Airport for a connection with the CSX would open up the entire metro to High Speed Rail. I'd be MUCH more likely to ride a HSR train from Lake Mary to International Parkway at 30 mph, then I would spending 50 minutes fighting that damn traffic to a damned inconvenient airport, paying for parking, paying for ticket, and then riding another 50 minutes to my favorite freeway interchange in Tampax.

Now that you mention this, for "connectivity's" sake, it would make better sense to shift the HSR airport station to where the line crosses Sunrail.  Then provide a peoplemover from that intermodal center to directly connect with the airport's terminal (ex. Miami's MIC or Phoenix's Skyharbor Airport peoplemover).

[Ocklawaha]

so what happened to Texas.....they had a great HSR plan and only got $4 million?

That's easy TU, DUVAL moved to Texas after he left Northeast Florida, look it up, it's history.

Not showing up at the meeting that was pretty much required to know how to apply for the money was a deal killer for Jacksonville Cline.

the applications were submitted by FDOT...and the decision that HSR is Tampa-Orlando-Miami was made in 1998, not at the Orlando meeting.

I'm sure all 200+ people in those rooms knew when the project started... and frankly it wasn't 1998. Maybe that date contained a decision, but decisions had been made as far back as 1972 that I'm aware of.

That meeting was critical to ANY city wanting onboard High Speed Rail, AMTRAK (who co-hosted with the FRA), Commuter Rail or Light Rail.  It was a clear case of "Mr A, meet Mr. B" and in the process this is "X,Y, and Z."
It was as much about Amtrak as about the HSR, even though they didn't bill it as such, sorry YOU missed it because Stephen is right, we DID have a voice in setting national policy.  Both of us made public comments on mike in front of the whole crowd, later we each were assigned a work table, I believe Stephen sat with the CEO's of Amtrak, DOT and some commuter agency's.  Due to name recognition (?) I was put in charge of a table that included Doc Dockery and most of the Central Florida Municipal and HSR team. BTW, the railroaders at both tables agreed with US and not with the High Speed Rail, as planned.


OCKLAWAHA

[Captain Zissou]

DUMB

[Ocklawaha]

DUMB

WTF?


OCKLAWAHA

[hightowerlover]

Call me crazy but if you look at the map on here... Jacksonville is the southernmost terminus of a much more significant Eastern Seaboard and Gulf Coast chunk of rail.  Connecting Jax to NYC, ATL, DC, Houston, Philadelphia, Boston, Raliegh, Birmingham and New Orleans.

Are you guys really depressed to not be a hub on the South Florida old folks/tourist trolley track??


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808904575025460095083750.html#project%3DHIGHSPEEDRAIL0904%26articleTabs%3Dinteractive

[tufsu1]

I think DoctorK pretty well summed it up. The station in the middle of NOTHING is no closer to downtown then the classic Tampa Union Station, and has ZERO supporting infrastructure. A good solution for Tampax is to slide those tracks over and get into Tampa Union Station, right alongside Amtrak, Greyhound, Light Rail and HART bus.

Ock...this option was studied...due to the curvatures and the massive ROW that would be needd, it was determined not  to be feasible.

Plus FDOT was able to acquire the former jail site (off I-275) for almost nothing.

FYI, local rail and bus service would all come into the new station as well...and its adjacent to HART's central bus station.

Check out the Tampa Bay Intermodal Centers study

http://www.pbsj.com/Our_Businesses/Consulting/Services/architecture/transit/Pages/Tampa_Bay_Intermodal_Centers.aspx