Author Topic: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled  (Read 11841 times)

cityimrov

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 658
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2010, 12:48:36 PM »
Since I'm now out of character, I should add this.  In order to make a plan like this reality.  We need to well, find good strong arguments that will win over these people.  Well, not necessarily these people but moderate voters who think they make a better argument vs us.  As much as I want to think they don't exist, seeing how Jacksonville is currently run, a lot of people vote with them vs against them.  These people represent votes and votes is what determines what our local politicians will do.  

Remember, no matter how cheap it is in reality to live in this city what people remember and tell me about are well - more fees, more taxes.  Whenever a new project comes on line, I can just hear them in my head talking about those two things.  A lot of people think of New Project = MORE TAXES instead of New Projects = investment for the future
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 12:52:18 PM by cityimrov »

JeffreyS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5940
  • Demand Evidence and Think Critically.
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2010, 01:00:58 PM »
Are you talking about the people who voted for the better Jacksonville Plan? Pretty pessimistic about the people who voted for a progressive plan taxes and all.

Our schools suffer because of this type of thinking that we can afford this part of what we need at the expense of the other thing we need.(more so at the state level). You determine how you want your metro to be and plan, budget and tax accordingly. You do not say what is the min we can collect in taxes and just suffer whatever that may bring.
Lenny Smash

vicupstate

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3754
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2010, 01:14:16 PM »
What Jax needs is not more plans and pictures, but political will.  That is what was so encouraging about the Mayor's recent speech. Putting those words into action will give me hope.  More plans that don't really mean anything don't. 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

hightowerlover

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2010, 04:16:52 PM »
Already let's start digging!!!.... get out the golden shovels to break the soil, and bury this plan at the cursed shipyards site of pipe dreams.

Captain Zissou

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4106
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2010, 06:11:24 PM »
I just glanced through the whole document and it's amazing! If half of this gets done DT will be much better off, and the study will have been worth whatever it cost.  That's an enormous If, however.

9a is my backyard

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2010, 08:08:46 PM »
Is anyone planning on attending tomorrow?  I'm going to try and be there (although I may be a few minutes late). Obviously this plan is preaching to this choir, but political will gets generated by politicians seeing their constituents behind plans like this.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33451
    • Modern Cities
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2010, 08:46:00 PM »
I'm going to try and make it.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

stjr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2982
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2010, 11:49:36 PM »
Lots of "mom and apple pie" and common sense in here.  IMHO, the real determinants of our vision will be leadership and private sector investments made in response to public sector investments.  If we had these, we wouldn't need to keep rehashing the obvious in expensive studies that belabor the obvious for the most part.  Most elements of this study have been thoroughly discussed on MJ at no cost to the City yet remain unaddressed.

Specific to this document, a few observations:

No holistic plan addressing downtown livability to attract downtown residents even though the plan list this as goal.

No mention of education, whether it regards placement of "neighborhood schools" or the impact of a university/college campus downtown.

Did note a call for wider sidewalks, street friendly building fronts, and the importance of historic preservation to build character and distinctiveness (while they lamented over how much has already been lost).

No mention of street cars even though they treasure connectivity.  Beaver Street is totally ignored as a major corridor even though it is a U.S. highway, has a full interchange with I-95, and the only connection to the City's west.  By the way, they advocate that the "S" line be made a "rails to trails" feature:


Quote
An emerging example in the Urban Core is the S-Line, a length of abandoned CSX railroad property that the City purchased to create a ribbon of open space throughout the District. The 4.5-mile trail provide off -street routes for jogging, walking, biking and rollerblading. CBD There is great potential for linkage with other trails, parks, schools, churches, historic sites and retail centers in the area.

No mention of conversion of the Shipyards and JEA properties to parks even though they treasure the river and access to it, advocate for conversion of brownfields (JEA site is so marked on one map) to parks, and advocate for active parks (without offering a downtown site for one):

Quote
There is a need for active, passive, and linear parks which increase opportunities for physical activity. These needs can be met in a variety of ways described below ... Active parks are programmed with active uses like athletic fields, vita courses, tennis courts, playgrounds, and jogging paths. A good example is Robert F. Kennedy Park in Springfield which includes indoor activities such as arts and crafts, billiards and foosball, and an indoor gymnasium for basketball or volleyball. It also provides facilities for outdoor activities such as a softball field, a swimming pool, tennis courts, a playground area and outdoor basketball courts.

Nice critique of our just completed multimillion dollar fixup of Main Street showing once again what happens when we get so wrapped up in some of these "visions" that we lose site of common sense needed for daily livability:

Quote
For example, much needed improvements to Main Street are currently underway and include new sidewalks, bus shelters, street trees and a landscaped median. While the new medians provide an aesthetic appeal to the roadway, unfortunately they are also creating a barrier to connectivity by reducing access to businesses for cars, by hindering turn movements, and for pedestrians, by hindering cross block movement. Medians are designed to control movement and to limit access on highways and major corridors, but they are sometimes not appropriate for compact neighborhoods and can actually have a detrimental impact on businesses and retail activity.

In fact, most successful retail streets do not have medians.

This was an interesting quote following their chastising the placement of medians just installed on Main Street as not retail or pedestrian friendly:

Quote
These examples can be attributed to the fundamental disconnect between the mission of the Florida Department of Transportation to “…provide a safe transportation system that ensures the mobility of people and goods, enhances economic prosperity and preserves the quality of our environment and communities...” and the movement to foster walkable neighborhoods. The mission is car centric and has influenced many local municipalities statewide. Fortunately, the Florida Department of Transportation is addressing this with their Livable Communities initiative, but more needs to be done.

They should have added JTA to this comment despite their facade of being a mass transit agency as well.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 11:54:25 PM by stjr »
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

samiam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • The greenest house is one that is already built
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2010, 12:19:30 AM »
What we need to make this work is rail. rail, rail, rail, rail, rail, and lets not forget RAIL !!!!

Ocklawaha

  • Phd. Ferroequinology
  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10438
  • Monster of Mobility! Ocklawaha is Robert Mann
    • LIGHT RAIL JACKSONVILLE
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2010, 12:36:33 AM »
What we need to make this work is rail. rail, rail, rail, rail, rail, and lets not forget RAIL !!!!

X2

OCKLAWAHA

samiam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • The greenest house is one that is already built
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2010, 12:44:12 AM »
If any of you attend this meeting PLEASE ask the powers that be what the hell do they have against rail. I just cant understand the thinking of the so called leader of this city. It is a fact if you have rail you have development. As Forrest gump would say they go together like peas and carrots

samiam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • The greenest house is one that is already built
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2010, 12:50:28 AM »
Wake up little prince Peyton, you have a situation that has never happened before. We have a president that is giving away money for RAIL. I see it, why cant you ?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 12:52:08 AM by samiam »

samiam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • The greenest house is one that is already built
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2010, 01:14:21 AM »
If there is an ulterior motive to this BRT crap it needs to be exposed. No one is saying boy am i glad we are going to get a BRT system It sure is exciting. I think I will ride it every day.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 01:21:38 AM by samiam »

samiam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 680
  • The greenest house is one that is already built
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2010, 01:32:05 AM »
JTA times have changed. Get with the program. we as a city would get the most bang for the buck from rail. MY god why cant you see it. Are you so blinded by the greed and corruption of the past that you cant see all the free money the feds would give you if you would create a system that everyone would ride. I know for a fact that it would not only be use as transportation to and from work, A large percentage of the ridership would ride just for the fun of it, I would

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11331
Re: Urban Core Vision Plan to be Unveiled
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2010, 08:20:59 AM »
I don't think this was JTA's vision....if it was, you likely would see streetcar routes instead of skyway extensions.