Author Topic: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession  (Read 16377 times)

Jason

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2010, 01:25:51 PM »
I say, if the developers want it then let them pay for it.  Entirely.  No subsidies, no tax breaks, no incentives.

stjr

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2010, 02:44:50 PM »
The rape and destruction of the unique forest of palms in Palm Valley at the bridge by FDOT was just a precursor of things to come.  Another part of old Florida forever lost.  Sad, very sad.

I haven't been to this area in a while, but I know the palm forest you speak of.  I had no idea it had been destroyed.  This really breaks my heart.

And as if to add insult to injury, the planted palms in the pictures all appear to be non-native varieties.  Sad, very sad indeed.

Finehoe, a glimpse of the before although, unfortunately, it doesn't really show the palm forest one went through approaching the bridge.






And, the concrete monster, sans palm trees, of the present:





Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

tufsu1

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2010, 03:04:39 PM »
The most reasonable answer would be to do what Maryland tried....the state deceided that there were certain areas where they wanted growth to occur....state funds were directed to these areas....if you wanted to build outside these areas, fine...but the state wasn't going to help in any way.

Unfortunately, after 10 years, the program has been deemed by some a failure.....and that's in a relatively small, very progressive state with strong environmental and urban planning history....good luck trying to do this in Florida!

samiam

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2010, 04:15:42 PM »
This is from another thread I posted in last month

People just don't understand the negative environment impact this kind of development causes. It seems they are being told it a green walkable community for the sake of the developers but it far from the truth. I have seen the damage done first hand.
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Dog Walker

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2010, 05:46:36 PM »
TUFSU1,  Didn't London, UK and Portland, OR do something similar; a "green belt" around the city where no city services would be extended?  I don't remember the exact details of each city's efforts or their results, but remember reading somewhere that in Portland it pushed development back into the center city and to nodes built around the light rail system there.

Do you know the details and the results?
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north miami

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2010, 06:31:32 PM »
The most reasonable answer would be to do what Maryland tried....the state deceided that there were certain areas where they wanted growth to occur....state funds were directed to these areas....if you wanted to build outside these areas, fine...but the state wasn't going to help in any way.

Unfortunately, after 10 years, the program has been deemed by some a failure.....and that's in a relatively small, very progressive state with strong environmental and urban planning history....good luck trying to do this in Florida!

Faced with certain unwanted development impacts and a desire to "save" lands from development,conservation minded citizens were faced with the land owners and developers challenge: If you tell me what to do with my land-buy it!
And that is just what we did in Florida,through a vibrant state conservation lands program,beginning with the Coanservation and Recreation Lands Act,which yielded Guana State Park and Wildlife Management Area-Northeast Florida's first CARL project.Followed by P2000,Save our River etc.The water management districts play a key role.Such fee simple aquisitions continue.Jennings State Forest came on line after Guana.(This writer was centrally involved with Jennings).Talbot.Cary State Forest expansions,Bayard,Four Rivers to name a few area projects.Note too the Osceola to Ocala Corridor.South Florida is the grand daddy of long established protected lands and later additions.(An effective block to westward sprawl that we do not enjoy.....)
And less than fee conservation easements allowing for environmentally compatible agriculture,timber,cattle.
Farm interests,timber interests and bonafide agricultural interests are forming land trusts and spurring easements.

Just say "Know" to growth!

north miami

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2010, 06:36:58 PM »

**** Note To Stephen Dare****  A glimpse of Nocatee narrative:

Check  metrojacksonville@metrojacksonville.com incomming email-sent this am.Note also the attachment.

-North Miami

Reminder for Stephen Dare-note above

-N.Miami

north miami

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2010, 10:05:46 PM »
The rape and destruction of the unique forest of palms in Palm Valley at the bridge by FDOT was just a precursor of things to come.  Another part of old Florida forever lost.  Sad, very sad.

I haven't been to this area in a while, but I know the palm forest you speak of.  I had no idea it had been destroyed.  This really breaks my heart.

And as if to add insult to injury, the planted palms in the pictures all appear to be non-native varieties.  Sad, very sad indeed.

Finehoe, a glimpse of the before although, unfortunately, it doesn't really show the palm forest one went through approaching the bridge.






And, the concrete monster, sans palm trees, of the present:









The PARC GROUP

tufsu1

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2010, 10:33:27 PM »
TUFSU1,  Didn't London, UK and Portland, OR do something similar; a "green belt" around the city where no city services would be extended?  I don't remember the exact details of each city's efforts or their results, but remember reading somewhere that in Portland it pushed development back into the center city and to nodes built around the light rail system there.

Do you know the details and the results?

Both cities have done this...in London (and other European cities) its far easier as private land ownership is not as prevalant.

In Portland, development on the edges has been curbed (although there is still plenty of sprawl)....this is done through a regional planning agency that has land use powers...the downside is the average home price has increased far more rapidly than in the rest of the nation....there was also a voter revolt a few years ago which basically gutted the system...than in 2008, the voters realized the error of their way and put most of the system bck in place.

Most recently some of the local governments have threatened to pull out f the regional planning pact, as they are unhappy with their future development allocations....I posted an article about this a few days ago in another thread.


north miami

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2010, 11:04:19 PM »
 ...the downside is the average home price has increased far more rapidly than in the rest of the nation....there was also a voter revolt a few years ago which basically gutted the system...
[/quote]

It is so worn out as a viable feature of growth promotion that we forget that "increasing property value" was a given assumptions behind selling "growth" proposals.

Home price increase,better than even some average,is good-yes?? In the case you quote above,maybe even get what you pay for!
Voter 'revolt' is no reflection on the viability (use that word a lot in these posts) of growth restriction.Possibly a good reason to not move there,for some of us in the know.

Might as well cease these posts-NE Fl fate has been sealed.There are further decisions (who knows of State DCA role and efforts such as the local office of the FWF?? And Leggo....) but on the whole-done deal.

Florida's First Coast-Where Miami Begins!!


mtraininjax

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2010, 04:52:41 AM »
Really? Could we say the same thing about Cecil Field or the planned expansions out Pritchard Road? How about all the apartments and condos falling into foreclosure that local banks are absorbing? Jacksonville lost 5,000 construction jobs last year, and we are all feeling it all over town.
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tufsu1

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2010, 02:16:30 PM »
norhmiami....increasing home values are good when you own and don't want to move...not so good if you're looking to buy!

finehoe

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2010, 02:31:09 PM »
home values are good when you own and don't want to move...

Except when your property tax bill rolls around.

tufsu1

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2010, 02:37:52 PM »
good point!

BOfficer

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Re: Nocatee Development Slowed by Recession
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 11:23:34 AM »
I hope Nocatee can become what everyone expects
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