City Re-Paves Bay Street, but Why?

[Lunican]

The larger issue is that the city continues to 'invest' in downtown projects without understanding what actually makes downtown's desirable. We've spent millions on our downtown, but it still struggles.

[ac]

Totally agree Stephen and Lunican.  The City has to help, but until they "get it," the businesses that want these people to patronize them need to be even more aggressive in response to changes like this.  This is one change that likely is here to stay, because of the huge stink last October over FL/GA ingress/egress and traffic control.

It will likely turn Bay into a racetrack, which is sad; but with the right marketing, it may be easier to get folks to turn off of Bay if they don't have to wait in gridlock to travel a paltry few blocks.

If we had reliable and fixed public transportation along the route to the stadium and back, this likely would be a non-existent discussion.

[jeh1980]

I'm not knocking the city on this. I didn't understand why at first, but I'm not saying anything. But then again, I don't see why it's that bad. It looked pretty good considerably. Now mabye if they can add some entertainment along Bay Street to accompany it.

[aaapolito]

Hate to bring this back up again, but it the project turns on whether the PAW PRINTS are brought back.  And I like the idea of the paws being TEAL!

[Midway ®]

Follow the money....find out which company did the work and who owns that company, and you will have your answer.

[Keith-N-Jax]

One would think the Jags will be leaving in a few yrs so why waste money on the paw prints.Just an idea.

[Ocklawaha]

untarded
Today at 11:30:41 AM
How much extra would it have cost to lay the groundwork for light rail during this project?  Ock?

General rule of thumb, between I'd call it at about $5 Million a mile, with a green median. Ties, ballast, rails, even overhead wire and poles, brackets and hangers.

So JTA is moving ahead with the BRT plan, even the downtown portion. A billion dollar bus ride that after our investment is done. Even now some of my railroad contractor friends think my quote is too high.


OCKLAWAHA

[Doctor_K]

Seriously?  What a pile of crap.  Why in the world are they moving forward with BRT?  Is JTA stupid?  The answer, as of that statement, is a resounding 'yes.'

[tufsu1]

The BRT plan they are moving forward with is not what you think...its really premium bus service on roads...wth better headways, shelters, signal pre-emption, etc....less than $3 million per mile.

and I think Ock's estimate is low....single track rail would likely cost closer to $8 million per mile....double track is more like $12 million per mile....and many LRT systems around the country are costing $25+ million per mile.

That said, the plan is to move ahead with commuter rail and streetcar....in addition to BRT

[thelakelander]

JTA should change the name of the revised BRT.  Its really more of a rapid bus service than BRT.

[Ocklawaha]

The BRT plan they are moving forward with is not what you think...its really premium bus service on roads...wth better headways, shelters, signal pre-emption, etc....less than $3 million per mile.

and I think Ock's estimate is low....single track rail would likely cost closer to $8 million per mile....double track is more like $12 million per mile....and many LRT systems around the country are costing $25+ million per mile.

That said, the plan is to move ahead with commuter rail and streetcar....in addition to BRT

I disagree as what we would build downtown would be heritage streetcar. Right now, I could pick up the phone and have two cars delivered to the Port of Jacksonville for under a million dollars. As streetcars do not require the big dig, or utility relocation's we dodge the bullet . Better then dodging the bullet on utilities, is many of our streets have a compacted roadbed right below our feet, remains of Florida's largest streetcar network. Memphis, has built much of it's line for under 3 million a mile, Kenosha was another budget deal, as was Ft. Smith, El Reno, Ft. Collins, Dallas Streetcar, etc.

I think our best shot might lay with a 501c3, as a private venture, seeking grants (including sax seafood - unless it's already occupied) and an operation and funding agreement with the city and JTA. Many cities have employed this method on their heritage rail lines. If it works for heritage rail it might also fit our Skyway.

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

That said, the plan is to move ahead with commuter rail and streetcar....in addition to BRT

I hope this is true.  Streetcar, Commuter rail, Skyway with rapid bus and traditional bus support sounds great.

[braeburn]

The fact of the matter is that the road screams of "get in and get out" and "this is the only thing we want you to see."

Good luck making Bay St. the nightlife party strip if it's going to be a high speed thruway for the suburbanites to get out of dodge "faster"...

[CS Foltz]

Well if they move ahead with "Commuter rail,Skyway with rapid bus and traditional bus support" that would be one thing...........but that has not been discussed in the open that I am aware of. Now if those possibilities have been discussed in smoke filled back rooms that is something else!  One can always hope the current Administration see's the Transportation Light but they would have to convince me. I disagree with the paving that is taking place in the Stadium area since there are roads that need more help than that out there right now! Johnny's team is just busy wasting my tax dollars again!

[BridgeTroll]

This is amazing... the clear disdain of some towards Suburbanites... against the complaints that the city is herding them out of the city.  Perhaps they feel they are not wanted by the urbanistas... it is certainly painfully clear in certain posts on this thread.