Ruins of Jacksonville: Annie Lytle Public School

[jbroadglide]

Steve, I understand Doug is a friend of yours. But if a Code Officer or a Police Officer had seen you its very likely you would have been faced with trespassing. Right now the cost to make repairs to bring that building up to code is well over 50% of the actual value of the building. I'm not talking historic value, because obviously there is that. I'm talking about the actual dollar value. And for that reason I just don't see it ever being upgraded to anything useful. I wish it could be because right now its a real eyesore on the city considering now that anyone who takes the high ramp from I-95 south onto
I-10 west is well over the rooftop and can really see how bad a condition its in. Don't get me wrong. I am in very much in favor of saving any historic structure if it can be done economically. Just don't see how thats possible with this building.

[jbroadglide]

Stephen you are correct. I am not an expert on historic renovation. I'm just relating facts as they are right now. If the current owners want to renovate that property and make it into a showplace I'm quite sure the city would stand back and let them have it. But this property has been in an Unsafe and Condemned state since at least 2001..Probably well before. But if the council person in that area or the Mayors Office starts pushing for Municipal Code Compliance to "do something about that eyesore", MCC would have no choice.
Like I said I personally am in favor of saving any historic structure if its feasible. My personal opinion, and thats all it is, my opinion, is that this structure is beyond saving..my opinion and a dollar will get me a coffee and McDonalds.

[jason_contentdg]

It does not look beyond saving at all to me, really the roofs could even be built by incorporating a secondary structure system, and not even bear on the existing walls or structure, although the walls look to be in pretty good shape in the pictures.

Would it be cheaper to build a new building on the site and demolish this one? Perhaps.  But not to the quality of this one.

[Bewler]

Exactly... It would be cheaper if we all drank tap water and ate boiled rice for the rest of our lives.
I mean why "waste" hard earned money unnecessarily on more expensive food and drinks that taste delicious?

Same principle applies here.

basically you guys were trespassing.

And pot is illegal.

[David]

and so is jaywalking.

[stug]

Steven and Ock ... if you ever go in again, bring me!
I had an opportunity to go in once several years ago before it was fenced off (yes, illegally ... don't rat me out, jbroadglide!) and totally chickened out. I'm a sucker for a good supernatural scare, but I was slightly more terrified of the corporeal denizens within. I could live without a rusty shank to the gut.

[Dog Walker]

The City has not and will not enforce any code violations against Doug Milne.  He has not and will not spend any money or effort to secure the school or its grounds.  The roof over the auditorium collapsed in 2002 because he would not repair a leak in the roof that caused the support trusses to rot.

All of the work to clean up the grounds and secure the building in the past two years has been done by volunteers led by Timkin, who sometimes writes on this forum.  The amount of work he has done almost by himself is astonishing.  Because of back and shoulder injuries he can no longer do this heavy work.

The building is structurally quite sound.  The walls are solid masonry that is over two feet thick in places.  The floors are poured concrete.  The interior walls are hollow clay tile.  The stairs are concrete.  The roof is mostly metal.  All of the wooden elements of the building, windows & doors, are deteriorated.  The plaster covering on the walls is damaged and covered with graffiti.  

The building is shaped like the letter E laid on its side.  The auditorium is the middle stroke of the E.  The wings on either side have a double row of rooms on the bottom floor and a single row of rooms on the second floor so there are two roof top terraces on the wings.  The building was built before air conditioning so the light that comes into the building is fabulous.  From the floor of the auditorium to the roof is about twenty-five feet high.  It is a great space and the acoustics could be made wonderful because of the high ceiling.

The building is owned by a non-profit LLC which only owns the building and has no other assets.  The property is owned by a for-profit LLC.  Both are controlled by Mr. Milne.

[lindab]

Stephen, you are very right about the quality of the historic construction. Despite the obvious scary paint job on the interior and the vandalism there is so much integrity in the structure that renovation is still a good option. Try Photo-shopping those pictures to remove the graffiti and look at the features that remain. Historic restoration is never cheap because it is so hard to replicate the detail work of past times. However, once it is done the value to the structure and to the community is greater than the cost of the work.

Here are the pluses of Annie Lytle which get overlooked almost everytime:
1.With the exception of the auditorium roof, the structure is concrete with walls that are several feet thick. Sound transmission through roof and walls is minimal.

2.Although the windows are shot to hell, if they were replaced with double paned windows, you would have no problems with noise. We are the closest neighbors to PS #4, live at ground level in a historic mixed use building with the expressway merge ramp about 200 yrds. away and have solved our noise problem the same way.

3.The entire upstairs facing on the back courtyard is windows all along the corridor. It faces north and lets in a beautiful light. It creates a gallery across the back hallway.

4.The school property is large. It goes back to the end of the block.

5.Staircases are pretty destroyed but still retain lovely arches. Your photos capture some of that.

6.The auditorium and upper gallery are well designed for performances. They have the charm of a small intimate stage and seating.

7.My favorite feature is the front facing connection to Riverside Park. You can walk down those grand steps, under the expressway and enter Riverside Park. It is the best asset of the building.

It is hard to be nonchalant about the amount of willful neglect this property has received from the owner. Do you know what kinds of risks kids are taking to get into the building to add to the graffiti or to photograph it?  Should someone get injured, there will be a clamor to destroy it.

Most everyone has a good idea about what could be done for the building at some future time. The number one thing is to do right now is to safeguard the structure from further deterioration by weather or visitors.

[Bewler]

Most everyone has a good idea about what could be done for the building at some future time.

BREW
ER
REE!!!

BREW
ER
REE!!!

Are you there Bold City? If your current location ever gets too small or you find yourselves in the position to expand, you know where to look.

[untarded]

Are the owners selling and if so how much are they asking?  Or are they waiting for the inevitable wrecking ball?

[Ocklawaha]

BTW, it was quite the sight to see the two of us hoisting up and crawling through broken windows to enter (Doug, if your reading, thanks for not shooting us!)

Not to be the wet blanket here but since this building is condemned as being way to dangerous for humans to be in, basically you guys were trespassing. Did you have the current owners permission to go inside? And if so, they had no right to allow you in.
Sorry Stephen. Even though the pictures are tremendous, that was really a foolish thing to do.
Just my two cents. Flame away.

Statute of limitations has run it's course, remember the "Hippies" camped there in the 60's and very early 70's. 5Th amendment! HA! What else could you expect from The Urban Nabob Gorilla of Jacksonville, and an Old Hippie?  Is it 4:20 yet?

OCKLAWAHA

[lindab]

Yes, to both.

I have heard the figure of $1 million for sale. It will take about $3 mil to restore. One day I heard the owner say that to the right non-profit, he would give it away.

[Dog Walker]

Ock, I was in the school with a JSO officer (bum clean out time) just after the 4:20 graffiti was put on the chimney.  Had to ask him what it meant and got a pitying look about how out of touch I was.  LOL!

To give you an idea of how STUPID the person was who put that on the chimney:  First you have to break into the school and go up to one of the terraces on the second floor.  Then you have to find a way to climb up onto the upper roof, another twelve feet up.  Then you have to walk on an 16" wide wall that is 30 feet in the air for a distance of 70' to the roof at the back of the auditorium.  It's a thirty foot fall on either side to reach the chimney.  Now do this in the dark with a couple of beers in you!
Darwin was sleeping that night.

[vicupstate]

Why would the Y want to go into there?

The reason I said this is that a few years ago, the Riverside Ave Y had looked seriously about moving out of their current riverfront property and building new as part of a larger project on the site.  The current facility is very space inefficient and dated.  The Y specifically stated that if they moved, they would want to stay very close to their current location.

They could sell their very valuable property, and invest the proceeds into a massive renovation/expansion of the Lytle school into their new facilty. 

They would probably make money on the deal, as well as get a better facility (not to mention some good PR).  Not to mention they would get a very valuable, permanent, free billboard space, by simply hanging a banner across the front, while virtually all of Jacksonville drives by it in any given week.   



   

[jbroadglide]

Ock, I was in the school with a JSO officer (bum clean out time) just after the 4:20 graffiti was put on the chimney.  Had to ask him what it meant and got a pitying look about how out of touch I was.  LOL!

Dog Walker I'll admit it. I have no idea what 4:20 means either. Please enlighten me..