Author Topic: Demolition in Five Points?  (Read 10709 times)

Dog Walker

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 10:19:10 AM »
The Publix shopping center across the street was originally going to be a standard, suburban layout too; a big box surrounded by asphalt.  Our own Historic Commission staff came up with the redesign that we see there today.  It has worked so well that Sembler has used the same concept in some other cities.  Jones and CVS should consult with them.
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thelakelander

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2009, 10:26:37 AM »
Deuce, I used to hang out in the U Street area, back in the mid 90s.  You're right, it was worse than many neighborhoods in Jacksonville.  During that time it was not uncommon to step over vagrants sleeping on the sidewalks.  That entire strip and the neighborhoods to the north changed overnight when the Metro's Green Line was expanded to Fort Totten.  I really wish I would have been into urbanism back in those days.  If I had taken images, the difference today would be night and day.  If anything, U Street's turn around just means that anything is possible when the proper planning and implementation takes place.  Hopefully, Jones and CVS will embrace the neighborhood's historic setting and make a real effort to work with the community.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Bewler

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2009, 11:08:10 AM »
I love this: "one of Jacksonville's few vibrant pedestrian friendly commercial districts."

And yet whole reason they are wanting to tear it down is so they can make it a drive thru.

Why? We've already established that there are lots of pedestrians in this area, so what's the point of having a drive thru? I'm not saying it would never get used but is it really necessary? This isn't exactly Southside Blvd.
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Captain Zissou

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2009, 11:10:47 AM »
I think this is a great opportunity to set a precedent for future historic development in Jacksonville.  This would be an easy fit, so why not earn some positive press in the process?  If they do demolish the buildings, I think it will have a very negative impact on the performance of the store.

Ernest Street

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2009, 11:18:40 AM »
I also applaud RAP for standing by this building. They have been concentrating on the local residents dwellings with an unnecessarily large Magnifying glass for way too long and letting any hair salon or medical building get a free pass  (cough ..chrome scissors in the window)

CMG22

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2009, 01:09:27 PM »
I'll be the first to admit, I was literally walking around Publix yesterday wishing that there was a CVS/Walgreen's there so that I could maybe pick up a picnic blanket to sit out in Memorial Park with a friend (I lost the one in my car).  If I were less lazy, I could have gone down to Park and King.  Despite that, does Publix not have a pharmacy?

I absolutely want the building preserved, but what is the point of putting a pharmacy here?  The Publix is tiny, for sure, and these types of pharmacies only offer a small selection anyway.  It seems to me that you're adding one tiny store, next to another diminutive store--both of which offer a limited selection, and much of it will overlap.  Wouldn't this building be better suited for some other type of retail development?
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grimss

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2009, 01:13:56 PM »
Personally, I'd love to see a great bookstore on the ground level!  Office or apartments (building's original purpose) above.

Can anyone tell me what 70,000 sf. is roughly equivalent to?  Is that the same size at the Park & King Walgreen's, or bigger?

exnewsman

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2009, 01:16:24 PM »
I live next to that building. Margaret Street cannot handle the additional traffic that a large retail would bring. The intersection at MArgaret/Riverside Ave is collasping. Margaret next to the park in a constant mess with people parking to go play in the park. Add a Walgreens/CVS traffic situation and it wil be total disaster.  That's on top of tearing down a perfect lovely building. Lakae had some great examples of how it could be done properly - but that won't help the traffic. This is very disturning news.

thelakelander

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2009, 01:26:14 PM »
The Publix across the street is 28,000sf.  70,000 sf would be roughly the size of a small anchor store at a mall (ex. Dick's Sporting Goods at SJTC).  My guess, is that TU's square footage count was a mix up.  A 70,000sf structure on this site would have to be vertical and a surface parking lot and drive through would most likely not be a part of those plans.

Quote
Margaret next to the park in a constant mess with people parking to go play in the park. Add a Walgreens/CVS traffic situation and it wil be total disaster.  That's on top of tearing down a perfect lovely building. Lakae had some great examples of how it could be done properly - but that won't help the traffic. This is very disturning news.

Any idea of that intersection's traffic count?  On the surface it would seem that the traffic issue could be resolved without major reconstruction of the surrounding roads.
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lindab

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2009, 01:44:46 PM »
I completely agree with you, exnews.  There have already been some threads on this forum talking about the horrible traffic along Riverside Avenue in this vicinity. These two properties should be much lower traffic generators. Stupid stupid thinking - buy historic properties in order to demolish them and muck up the street grid.

stjr

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2009, 02:21:55 PM »
For those on this thread that missed the prior thread started, I repost my previous comment here:

People are also forgetting that Owens Pharmacy is just around the corner at 5 Points.  Why not support a neighborhood stalwart instead of a chain.  They are better than a drive through - they have free delivery in the area!  Service is first class.  And there was another local pharmacy at Park and King in addition to a Walgreens as I recall.  That would be at least 3 pharmacies.  I know Baptist has an in-hospital pharmacy so I would think St. Vincents might have one as well.  If so, that's 4 pharmacies!

If people are on Medicare, Medicaid, or insurance, all they need is service.  The prices are fixed by the government or insurance company.  Having another pharmacy isn't going to change the market place.

Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

tufsu1

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2009, 02:25:45 PM »
the 2005 daily traffic count on Riverside Avenue (in front of Publix) was around 17,000...basically that is right at "capacity"....now, that doesn't speak to peak hour conditions...which are usually worse.

But I am not in favor of building roads (or stopping development for that matter) based on heavy traffic for less than 2 hours a day.

Note: The statement above is general, and has nothing to do with this specific case.

CMG22

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2009, 02:29:50 PM »
Thanks, sjtr.  Good point, which buttresses mine from above.  I don't live in the area, otherwise I would use them.  I've always noticed it, but never walked in...
"Go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company."  --Mark Twain

thelakelander

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2009, 02:31:44 PM »
^Thanks, tufsu1.  Well you know me.  I'm all for diversification if it forces us to seriously invest in mass transit alternatives.  A streetcar link between Riverside and Downtown will fare pretty well if the areas along that path continue to densify in a pedestrian friendly manner.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

grimss

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Re: Demolition in Five Points?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2009, 02:50:09 PM »
Forgot to mention in my earlier post what a great job you've done with this, Lake.  How you manage to find so many pertinent photos so quickly is a miracle to me . . .

Just noticed that RAP has posted their position on all this on http://riverside-avondale.blogspot.com/.