Author Topic: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse  (Read 10695 times)

TheProfessor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 475
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2009, 11:07:55 PM »
I don't see the point in bringing in a curved road. It looks awkward to drive through and it goes right in front of the lower steps.  If they install a road they need to continue the grid pattern.  (which is impossible with with this design) They need to just keep the flawed building design, get rid of the curved road, and hire an intelligent landscape architect to transform the green space in front of the court house.  Then maybe we can get on with our lives and build up the building fabric around there building.  There is still hope!  :)

mtraininjax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5414
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2009, 12:12:57 AM »
It is laughable,  :D, to know that the State and City spend $$$$ to make Monroe a viable exit off of I-95, only to close it off to through traffic. Send everything down Forsyth and Union, is like blocking Beach and telling everyone at the beach to evacuate on Atlantic and JTB.

When is the last time a business made such a bad decision?
And, that $115 will save Jacksonville from financial ruin. - Mayor John Peyton

“This is a game-changer. This is what I mean when I say taking Jacksonville to the next level.”
-Mayor Alvin Brown on new video boards at Everbank Field

DetroitInJAX

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2009, 12:41:37 AM »
Wow.. good point mtraininjax....

The state builds a great offramp from 95 to Monroe and what does the city do? add a curve to the road.

So who else thinks that the city will end up closing Monroe off for "Security reasons", totally negating that great exit from 95?

mtraininjax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5414
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2009, 12:49:36 AM »
If they close Monroe there at the courthouse, they will make the horses, who have a nice expensive stable and housing at 95 and Monroe, to have to walk around the Taj Majal. Do we really need the expense of mounted horse patrols?????

Could they not live out at the Equestrian Center?
And, that $115 will save Jacksonville from financial ruin. - Mayor John Peyton

“This is a game-changer. This is what I mean when I say taking Jacksonville to the next level.”
-Mayor Alvin Brown on new video boards at Everbank Field

stjr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2982
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2009, 01:58:51 PM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the western side of this project Broad Street?  This is one way north, currently.  As such, traffic could not turn right into the curve based on the graphic in the rendering.  Traffic in the curve would have to originate from Pearl Street which is one way south.  This would force traffic on Monroe in front of the courthouse in the OPPOSITE direction from traffic emanating from I-95.  How foolish would this be?!!  The alternative is to allow no access whatsoever to the curve from Pearl to preserve the current Monroe eastward flow or to reverse the traffic on Broad and Pearl to allow access from those streets into the curve.  What a mess!

What has also not been answered is what will become of the green spaces outside "the curve"?  Will they be retention ponds? A park? Grassy fields?  Future development?  "Protest parks"?  More space for the homeless to collect? If they are used for public gatherings and events, will this interfere with the courthouse function?  This area will be close to 1 and 1/2 city blocks rivaling Hemming Plaza in area.

Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

Jason

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2009, 02:09:41 PM »
Great points Stjr. 

My guess is that the stretch of Monroe will become a "drop off" lane for visitors and/or taxis, and would be closed to through traffic if not closed off completely.

The green space between Adams and Monroe is kinda growing on me though.  Assuming the surrounding properties are developed in a manner that addresses the new greenspace and the street, it could become a nice amenity.

I'm still puzzled about the location of the proposed building.  Absolutely no concern was given to the nearby skyway and the potential to either locate the building in line with an existing station or to strategically extend the skyway to the new building.

Now there will be a continuous 4 block stretch consumed by buildings that close down at 5:00.

I would have put it on the Greyhound site.  That would allow the Hemming area quick access to the new courthouse via the skyway only one stop down the line to Central Station.  And The Greyhound would then be moved to a consolidated transportation center replacing the Prime Osborne.  A new convention center would then replace the old courthouse and all is well for a future extension of the skyway to the sports complex via Bay Street.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 02:14:16 PM by Jason »

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34675
    • Modern Cities
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2009, 02:26:57 PM »
Despite the fact that this thing sucks up seven blocks, the space in front of the courthouse could be nice if a little thought is put into it (ex. opposite of Main Street Pocket Park).  Unfortunately, for some reason, I would be suprised if it continues to be ignored.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Cliffs_Daughter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
  • Don't make me come down there and smack someone.
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2009, 02:37:55 PM »


My guess is that the stretch of Monroe will become a "drop off" lane for visitors and/or taxis, and would be closed to through traffic if not closed off completely.


Monroe is already a "drop off" lane in its own right from Julia to Main anyway, or at least it is from 7 a.m. onward. I'm kinda used to it now. But since the Forsyth exit a b**** to get across lanes to, I really don't want to take Union.
I'd rather just drive up through Riverside if that's what it came to.
Heather  @Tiki_Proxima

Ignorantia legis non excusat.

JeffreyS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5945
  • Demand Evidence and Think Critically.
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2009, 01:00:36 AM »
I love that a link to this article was on the TU home page.
Lenny Smash

stjr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2982
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2009, 01:40:36 AM »


I have been meaning to ask, what is that "blue block" sandwiched between the Historic Federal Courthouse and the Ed Ball Building destined for?  This is considered by the City to be part of the Courthouse project but I haven't seen how?  There are actually 6 Blue Blocks PLUS the Historic Federal Courthouse (total of 7 blocks) PLUS the space in the Ed Ball Building!

This graphic shows what an albatross this project really is to Downtown and why it will be long remembered as Peyton's Folly.  Maybe, if we mailed this to every citizen in Jax, the populace would realize why it's a shipwreck BEFORE they build it, rather than after.

And, still wondering what the explanation is for the traffic fiasco in the making:
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the western side of this project Broad Street?  This is one way north, currently.  As such, traffic could not turn right into the curve based on the graphic in the rendering.  Traffic in the curve would have to originate from Pearl Street which is one way south.  This would force traffic on Monroe in front of the courthouse in the OPPOSITE direction from traffic emanating from I-95.  How foolish would this be?!!  The alternative is to allow no access whatsoever to the curve from Pearl to preserve the current Monroe eastward flow or to reverse the traffic on Broad and Pearl to allow access from those streets into the curve.  What a mess!


[/b]
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34675
    • Modern Cities
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2009, 02:13:07 AM »
I have been meaning to ask, what is that "blue block" sandwiched between the Historic Federal Courthouse and the Ed Ball Building destined for?  This is considered by the City to be part of the Courthouse project but I haven't seen how?

At this point, it looks like the city will hold on to it for future courthouse expansion.  In the decades in between, it will probably be additional greenspace (like the carved up blocks next to it) or surface parking.

Quote
And, still wondering what the explanation is for the traffic fiasco in the making:
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the western side of this project Broad Street?  This is one way north, currently.

Yes, the west boundary is Broad Street.

Quote
As such, traffic could not turn right into the curve based on the graphic in the rendering.  Traffic in the curve would have to originate from Pearl Street which is one way south.  This would force traffic on Monroe in front of the courthouse in the OPPOSITE direction from traffic emanating from I-95.  How foolish would this be?!!

At this point, I believe Monroe will still be a one-way Eastbound Street.  Broad Street traffic should be able to still turn right, assuming the turning radius is larger than what is being shown in the renderings.

Quote
The alternative is to allow no access whatsoever to the curve from Pearl to preserve the current Monroe eastward flow or to reverse the traffic on Broad and Pearl to allow access from those streets into the curve.  What a mess!

Yes, its a mess.  I would not be surprised if the curving portion of Monroe ends up being closed off to regular traffic, due to security concerns.

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Prax_N_Jax

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2009, 10:06:45 AM »
it's amazing how a great sight like this is always overlooked. if the powers that be ask then they'd get a better planning committee from people on metrojax.... i just don't think anyone in the mayor's office is open to suggestions....
Living in Jacksonville is like living in the province back home... so much potential for growth. not enough gitter done!

FayeforCure

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2589
  • Amsterdam: Persistent, Courageous, Compassionate
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2009, 12:22:04 PM »
There has been some speculation on George Bush moving (at least part time) to Jacksonville. He stated it would be good to be in a city where he got such warm support. I was just thinking, there would be NOTHING to stop him for running for mayor in a couple of years.... Even GW would be an improvement over PEYTON.

You have got to be kidding. Looks like you just can't imagine anything else but failed Republican rule.

Sorry, but I have to comment to the 20 percenters who still are blindly loyal to their party, despite the devastation caused under Republican rule.

In case anyone wonders, I too was once a registered Republican and certainly admit to many Democrats having contributed to the failed Republican "no-bid" money wasting practices, by either being active enablers or being too timid to stand up for us, the people.

That's why I urge everyone to look beyond party lines and look for the common good for the people. Chose your leaders wisely. Thankfully Duval county residents have come to their senses and mostly rejected "politics as usual" or "same old same old" during the last Presidential election.

I vote for Government FOR the PEOPLE, BY the PEOPLE, and hope that voters keep that in mind when they vote. After all, that IS what America stands for.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 01:25:58 PM by FayeforCure »
In a society governed passively by free markets and free elections, organized greed always defeats disorganized democracy.
Basic American bi-partisan tradition: Dwight Eisenhower and Harry Truman were honorary chairmen of Planned Parenthood

Jason

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4334
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2009, 12:37:52 PM »
Faye, I think his comment was "tongue-in-cheek" and meant to be a little sarcastic.  ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong Ock.

avanhorn555

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Peyton Struggles: The Truth about the Courthouse
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2009, 07:53:12 AM »
here is the best solution.

The City buys the old Barnett Bank building and renovates that for a new courthouse.

We then save lots of money we can use to fund the school system next year, the judges get a beautiful edifice worthy of their lofty stature, it is next to plentiful parking garages, and is convenient to restaurants and shops.  It takes a great building out of disrepair and puts it to good use.  With the land the city has purchased for the new court house the city sells that to developers for housing, and downtown urban living space, the proceeds of which we can use to prop up the city retirement fund and other short falls.