Elements of Urbanism: Tampa

[Ocklawaha]

Interesting comments Jeh 1980, but Peyton has been offered all the free help we can dish out. He won't talk to you or anyone else about some idea for the city. Been there, done that, more then once. So far we have a list of about 60 projects or whole area's of improvement that he has refused to hear or act on.

Now with term limits moving him out in 2011, he's got no reason to do anything more then collect a check, which in my opinion is about all he has done for 6 years.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

jeh, when I speak of being isolated, I mean from a competition kind of sense.  Regionally speaking, we're the big dog in North Florida and Southern Georgia.  There is no other city within an hour's drive that can compete blow for blow.  Things are different in Central and South Florida where there are several cities with more than 100,000 residents within a stone's throw of each other.  Because of the heavy level of regional competition, municipalities in those areas are more likely to quickly embrace new things.

[heights unknown]

So in essence jeh you're saying that Jax needs to discover itself and its own identity and not worry about regional competition (in which I agree with Lake we really have no regional competition from another major Florida City in our neck of the woods, save Gainesville and Tallahassee, and they are not really on our level or viewed as competition).

I disagree regarding your thoughts on our City Leaders; good ole boy network, etc., whatever you want to call them, basically most of Jax's Mayors and their Administrations, for the exception in my opinion of "Jake the Snake" Godbold, have fallen short on mapping out a successful, definitive plan and vision for the progress, success, and long term success of Jax as a whole and our downtown.  And when something is planned out or laid on the table that's really good, it appears they have great difficulty in moving it forward or making a quick, rational decision that's for the good of the City.

Just my opinion.

Heights Unknown

[tufsu1]

I suggest that everyone read the Downtown Master Plan update from around 2000....that is the long-term vision....JEDC has now set up a short-term strategy )Downtown Action Plan) that is consistent with the vision.

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Jacksonville+Economic+Development+Commission/Downtown+Development/Downtown+Maste.htm

The fact is it often takes a long time to see progress....and I will agree w/ Lake that there has not been follow through on previous plans....also I will admit that Jax has been a bit slow on picking up on national trends, primarily due the conservative views that many peopl around here have.

[jeh1980]

Interesting comments Jeh 1980, but Peyton has been offered all the free help we can dish out. He won't talk to you or anyone else about some idea for the city. Been there, done that, more then once. So far we have a list of about 60 projects or whole area's of improvement that he has refused to hear or act on.
Now with term limits moving him out in 2011, he's got no reason to do anything more then collect a check, which in my opinion is about all he has done for 6 years.

OCKLAWAHA

I guarantee he will listen to you if you keep bothering him long enough! Keep pushing him and keep the faith. Don't quit, just keep on going. As for my opinion about the Mayor, well...I think he's okay. It's just that he can do a better job than what we think he is doing. I know the Mayor would never sit in his office just to collect paychecks. Even HE would know that!

[Keith-N-Jax]

He'll be out of office by then. I was in Tampa for Xmas, just got back. There is nothing there that cant be acomplished here. Jax problems lay with administration. Let's say that the master plan had been followed for the last 5 yrs. We probably would not be even having this conversation.

[thelakelander]

I suggest that everyone read the Downtown Master Plan update from around 2000....that is the long-term vision....JEDC has now set up a short-term strategy )Downtown Action Plan) that is consistent with the vision.

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Jacksonville+Economic+Development+Commission/Downtown+Development/Downtown+Maste.htm

The fact is it often takes a long time to see progress....and I will agree w/ Lake that there has not been follow through on previous plans....also I will admit that Jax has been a bit slow on picking up on national trends, primarily due the conservative views that many peopl around here have.

The City of Jacksonville is the biggest threat to its own master plan.  On nearly every single city project, critical parts of the plan's guidelines have been ignored.  Listed in blue are a few guidelines from the plan with examples of city projects that have ignored them.

Urban Design Guidelines

Intent: To maintain traditional block patterns with a grid of streets.  To eliminate vacant streets and minimize the creation of suber blocks, wherever practically possible.  Encourage new large development proposals to respect the existing Jacksonville downtown street pattern.

Courthouse Action: Creation of super block, eliminating the traditional grid block pattern.


Intent: To provide connections between major anchors and activities. Encourage ground floor uses that link activities and relate to the theme of the area.

City Hall Annex Action: Ground floor retail space removed and replaced with inaccessible office space.  This creates a permanent dead zone of activity on a major corner of Hemming Plaza at nights and on weekends.


Site Design and Building Form Guidelines

Intent: To encourage development that is designed to improve the pedestrian's experience of Downtown Jacksonville.  Respect the existing development patterns.  Provide frequent pedestrian entries along the street.

Main Library Action: Five story blank walls along Duval and Monroe Streets.  This action creates a negative situation for potential retail on these blocks (no anchor to stimulate continuous foot traffic).


Intent: To minimize the impact of parking and service areas in downtown.  Provide active uses such as shops and restaurants on the ground floor of garages to engage pedestrians.

Sports Complex Garages: No retail space in garages.  Garages are also not designed to accomodate future retail options.


A master plan is only effective when applied to 100% of projects being developed in the urban core (both public and private).  By not following its own master plan, the city is defeating the purpose of the plan's original intentions.  

Another thing that worries me about the recent DT Action Plan is the fact that funding sources and timelines have not been identified or developed for specific listed improvements.  When a city identifies these issues and make a commitment to stick to them, progress can happen in a short period of time (ie. DT Lakeland).  If this does not happen, the plan could eventually end up on the shelf collecting dust (ie. DT Jax Mater Plan of 1971).

[thelakelander]

He'll be out of office by then. I was in Tampa for Xmas, just got back. There is nothing there that cant be acomplished here. Jax problems lay with administration. Let's say that the master plan had been followed for the last 5 yrs. We probably would not be even having this conversation.

Agreed.  If the DT Master Plan was strictly enforced on 100% of projects (both public and private) since 2000, the scene would be different.

[aj_fresh]

The City of Jacksonville is the biggest threat to its own master plan.  On nearly every single city project, critical parts of the plan's guidelines have been ignored.  Listed in blue are a few guidelines from the plan with examples of city projects that have ignored them.

Amazing facts Lake. I wonder how the administration would defend itself on these issues.

[lewyn]

I have been to Tampa and it is nothing to write home about.

1.  In Ybor City half the restaurants seem to be closed during the day; the other half are closed after 5.

2.  In Hyde Park (the 1920s streetcar suburb most comparable to Riverside) the water access is not nearly as good as in Riverside because Bayshore Blvd. (a speedway) cuts off the neighborhood from the water.

Like the streetcar though.

[thelakelander]

If I recall:

Courthouse - Security issues.  However, Charlotte's recent courthouse project faced similar issues, yet still featured multiple entrances.

City Hall Annex - They needed all the space for office use despite not knowing what offices would be going into the building.

Sports Complex Garages - No market for retail.  That's a decent argument, but the garages should have been designed to accomodate retail when the time comes.

Main Library - It was already under construction when I moved to town, so I'm not sure if the issue ever came up.

[thelakelander]

I have been to Tampa and it is nothing to write home about.

2.  In Hyde Park (the 1920s streetcar suburb most comparable to Riverside) the water access is not nearly as good as in Riverside because Bayshore Blvd. (a speedway) cuts off the neighborhood from the water.

I prefer Hyde Park's waterfront access because its public.  I mean having a +5 mile public waterfront promenade is pretty impressive.  Unfortunately, outside of a few isolated locations, the public can not enjoy most of Riverside's.



As far as DT's go, I prefer Jax's.  Better riverfront access and a large collection of older architecturally significant structures.  DT Tampa got a little to demo happy for my tastes.

[Jason]

What became of the Harbor Island people mover?  Was it demolished?

[thelakelander]

It was demolished.

[copperfiend]

The City of Jacksonville is the biggest threat to its own master plan.  On nearly every single city project, critical parts of the plan's guidelines have been ignored.  Listed in blue are a few guidelines from the plan with examples of city projects that have ignored them.

Amazing facts Lake. I wonder how the administration would defend itself on these issues.

They can't. The city is like your child that constantly lets you down and you keep loaning money to.