Clustering. A Modest Proposal.

[Ocklawaha]

Well, well, looks like I woke up somebody! (It's okay, I'm always a smart ass).

Every orchestra needs a CONDUCTOR, Every bonding agent need a catalyst.

and I think y'all still don't get my point.

Phasing the Streetcar into a plan is fine with me, but I think it ought to be there (even if on paper and photos) when the $$ walks through that meeting room door.

My wife is a beach bum, she loves this area of town. What if you get every Olive Garden, Winn Dixie, or CVS boss in the Country down at that meeting? What if they all forego building the usual and developing unique "Winn Dixie 1920" or "Olive's Restaurants", is SHE going to want to go? NOPE! Got Buckets, Got Singletons, Got COLOMBIAN...

DON'T NEED SPRINGFIELD.

Even if Boomtown were to reopen, friendship would bring us down there, but NOT Springfield alone. You still need the FLASH to go with the BOOM!

I'm willing to host the STREETCAR sideshow in ring 3, if this is what it takes.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

SPRINGFIELD? Your ride is here!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

^^Ock, still two different issues that should not be lumped together in order to move forward.  The goal isn't to figure out how to attract Southside residents to shop, eat or hang out at chain stores on Main Street.  Its to find a short term solution (ie. within a year) to filling existing available storefronts in a clustered manner that leads to the creation of a district.  This calls for solving issues like leasing rates, joint marketing, tenant buildout, building maintenance, etc.  While they can complement each other, these are things that should not be dependent on the prospects of a streetcar running down Main.

For example, Uncommon Grounds is interested in opening in Springfield.  However, the process to find a viable spot has been difficult.  Although a streetcar will draw more customers to the area, a line down Main in a couple of years won't solve their problem of finding a suitable location within the next three months.  

[thelakelander]

I agree.  You just don't want the push for one to endanger or delay the efforts of the other.  All of these things can become reality, if orchestrated properly.

[downtownparks]

I would even argue that a streetcar would inflate the sense of value in the owners even more, and they would expect even more unreasonable rates. the lynch pin for it all is having successful local establishments. If you do this before a street car, it would help ensure that the street car is successful beyond anything JTA has done before. It would feed unto itself, and help make new development for the multiple empty lots viable.

[GatorShane]

All of you make great points, but I think if I were doing things I would start with the streetcar system first. I would run lines up Main street and also down Park street via an extension of the proposed Bay Street Station. I know this sounds generic but I beleive if we could look at Tampas model we would have 2 more great entertainment districts in Springfield and Brooklyn. Just a thought. Hope everyone had a great holiday.

[downtownparks]

The streetcar would make Main St special again. this can happen regardless of that.

[Ocklawaha]

I would even argue that a streetcar would inflate the sense of value in the owners even more, and they would expect even more unreasonable rates. the lynch pin for it all is having successful local establishments

.

Now this is funny, all the discussion is quite healthy. Yes, I understand the need to get the locals into the vacant storefronts ASAP. Don't know that it will happen outside of some sort of summit meeting as we have discussed.

Downtown Parks brought up a VERY real danger with the streetcar's popularity with the public. Bourbon Street in New Orleans, is no longer Bourbon Street - nor has it been for many years prior to Katrina. It was SO POPULAR, the high rents and big chains moved in and kicked out all of the locals. All that is left is a Disney World "copy" of Old New Orleans. It's been quite awhile since I crawled out the door of "YOUR FATHERS MUSTACHE," and I'm not even sure you could find it today. Even if you do, it's owned by "TGI Fridays" or some such pish.

So meet and cluster today, and tomorrow the streetcar shows up (probably under a new mayor or a private company) and out go the locals.

I really think that done in the original style that our streetcar would be bigger then Tampa,  Memphis, or Little Rock's, efforts. Done to our own unique heritage it would blow away the others and quickly become a prime site in the whole WORLD for the 4-5 Million rail and transit buffs.

Imagine I'm on a road trip from Jersey City to Disney and I've hounded the wife about the magic of the Jacksonville Traction Company's Main Street line for 5 months. Ahh, but we arrive at the wrong time of night and the wife wants to push on. DAMN! I convince her to stay at the Best Western at JTB and 95 South, praying she gives a little in the morning. Meanwhile the kids are bouncing on the next bed yelling "MICKEY"!
A quick breakfast, a kiss, and she unloads that I have 30 minutes to see that darn streetcar.

I fly out the door with a camera, recorder, and system brochure from the lobby. Do I go to the modern Water Street copy of Memphis, or Little Rock? Do I go to the same in 5-Points? OR? Do I go to MAIN STREET where "THE MOST BEAUTIFUL STREETCAR LINE IN THE WORLD" has been reborn on the original route? DUH.

I also don't believe that the streetcar and the Clustering are one and the same, or even have similar goals. They don't need to be tied together for success in 6 months or a year or two...but...

What I do believe and defend with passion is that ANYONE not informed about the history of the PINE STREET RAILWAY, nee MAIN STREET RAILWAY, nee JACKSONVILLE ELECTRIC CO, nee JACKSONVILLE TRACTION COMPANY'S worlds most beautiful streetcar line, should be told at this meeting. They should know this is more then a dream. It is a real study, with real numbers, and real estimates already in hand. This is something they can get behind after they do their thing on the block. Then we'll kick things into high gear. This is the something that every "MALL" or "BIG BOX" retailer dreams of, an instant magnet to my front door.

For this reason, as I said, plan your meeting, and if you still want, I'll kick in a "sideshow" on the Streetcar line that showed the world what Jacksonville was made of.  Bottom line, I need you all... but you need STREETCARS or DISNEY WORLD to go over the top, and the mouse is spoken for.

It has been said that Southrons NEVER consider the odds when entering a battle...I'm on year 28 and counting.

OCKLAWAHA

[deathstar]

Wow Ock, that New Orleans streetcar is absolutely the scaled model I have, I figured you'd know lol. My Grandmother loves trains and railway, she was born in Germany, and has taken many a trips on trains in her lifetime. My Grandfather was in the Army, and he himself is a fan of the railway too.

I showed him this website, and pictures of what Jacksonville used to look like, since he's a West Virginia Native. The one thing that really made his eyes pop, were the pictures of Main Street with a railcar.

"THAT'S WHAT THOSE TRACKS WERE THERE FOR!!!! THOSE DUMBASSES TOOK THAT OUT?!?!?!?!"

All the while I'm sitting there with a big grin on my face

[sheclown]

Stephen, it is a great idea.  It needs a name.

 I think everyone, basically, wants the same thing...and should be able to find some common ground. 

[AntigoneStarr]

The issue of putting all of said types of venues together is the lack of variety (despite the variety of what they represent). You'd end up with a "mall" version of independently owned businesses... and malls... well, kind of suck. Maybe put them in a square with a park in the middle... (like, buy out the building surrounding Memorial Park, or build something around a large park somewhere else). Throw in some form of museum or place to make something... or some kind of culinary classes at said restaurants/bars or wine-classes or interesting things that don't involve simply sitting around consuming food/alcohol for the entire time that the venue could potentially be open.

It's great to go out to Bay Street and have 4 different venues with a different mix of crowds and music and types of alcohol... but all 4 venues still offer only one thing, really - a place to party.

I suggest, that if all the places you suggested ended up in one massive cluster, that the owners get creative lest the cluster become dull (despite having a very robust, ever changing menu) because the only thing to do there is spend money on excess experience...

(Honestly, how awesome would it be if one of the great restaurants around here had competitive weekly cooking classes, or one the venues with a billion different types of beer had some kind of way to actually learn about the various types of beer without getting outrageously smashed every night, or hell, even music seminar type nights where one could actually learn the roots to said popular song, or perhaps some other way for patrons to get something more out of a restaurant or bar that relates to the food/alcohol/music... or maybe I'm going way off track here).