Author Topic: Citizens Property Insurance starts plans for move out of downtown Jacksonville  (Read 4232 times)

WarDamJagFan

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Just let the Northbank die already. 50 something years trying to revive a portion of a city that simply refuses to live. Time to call a spade a spade and realize Khan's new neighborhood will be the new core in 10 years. 

Ken_FSU

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However, the homeless are not a main let alone sole reason for any company moves away from downtown. There are other issues that are far bigger — wanting to consolidate office space, wanting more parking, to be closer to the suburban employee base, or even just because it’s what the bigwigs personally want. It does, however, contribute to negative perceptions of downtown and the urban core among some people.

Usually agree with you Bill, and would have agreed with this statement up until maybe two years ago, but I've talked to multiple business owners in the last month alone considering a move from downtown exclusively because of the homeless problem. It has truly gotten that bad.

As a dude on the streets five days a week, homelessness and crime absolutely make Downtown Jacksonville a hostile business environment in 2024. It's not a perception thing when you have to walk young female employees to their car so they're not harassed. Or when you have clients coming from out of town having to witness drug deals from the conference room window. Or when you have to send people in on the weekends multiple times a year to fix windows that have been shattered from bum fights or gunfire. Or when you've got people tweaked out on fentanyl screaming that their going to stab you or shitting on the sidewalk. I tried to come in on the weekend a couple of weeks back to get some work done and couldn't even get into the office because the homeless had set up a massive camp literally in the front awning of our building.

Because of how thin the office population has become, and because of how strangely absentee the police presence seems to be in the CBD unless you literally call in a drug deal, there's a real sense of lawlessness that everyone left downtown feels.

I think we're doing ourselves a disservice if we don't acknowledge how urgent of a problem it is, as evidenced by the Citizens situation that ActionsNewsJax is now reporting from multiple sources is tied to safety (https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/safety-concerns-jacksonville-driving-out-large-local-business/LJ4OZOSSUBE4RGQY2MRWQUJL4U/).

Just let the Northbank die already. 50 something years trying to revive a portion of a city that simply refuses to live. Time to call a spade a spade.

Hard disagree. Even the Cubs and Sox won a ring once they finally got the right leadership and strategy in place. There is SO MUCH wasted opportunity on Laura Street alone.

Secret sauce ain't hard, everyone else has figured it out:

1. Partner with someone smarter than you on a true master plan for your urban core, focused on creating the type of clustered, complementing uses that Ennis has been advocating for since like 2005
2. Set aside funds to smartly subsidize strategically important urban initiatives and to build up public infrastructure that makes living and working downtown attractive
3. Execute over time

We've never done this. Just thrown hundreds of millions at demolition, petty grudges, and propping up random projects for the donor class.

Northbank is burning in spite of its bones, not because of them.

But the problem is going to continue to exist in perpetuity if we think the solution is to do everything in a vacuum and turn James Weldon Johnson Park into a hedge maze for the junkies to hide in while the clown cars drive into the river and we save Riverfront Plaza for a 100-story skyscraper that is just one supply chain issue away from being built.

It's just so sad to see the last decade wasted, and a realistic, maybe even aggressive, tentpole for urban success for this mayoral term being returning downtown to its 2018 glory.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2024, 08:24:17 PM by Ken_FSU »

fsu813

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Would the move of Suzbacher from east of Liberty Street out to the Golfair area, west of I-95 and north of MLK, be a step toward decentralizing these services?

Possibly. Depends on which facets leave vs stay. They don't do traditional shelter services there any more; the very visible people hanging out and about there use the free meals and Urban Rest Stop services. Or just aren't bothered by authorities to move their camp as much, vs in the more visible part of Downtown.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2024, 09:04:56 PM by fsu813 »

Charles Hunter

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I guess we will see what happens when the "no camping" law comes into effect on Oct. 1st

Ken_FSU

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I guess we will see what happens when the "no camping" law comes into effect on Oct. 1st

My guess is roughly the same thing that happened when the “no panhandling in the medians” law went into effect.

Have never seen more panhandlers in the median.

Just isn’t enforceable when JSO can barely field emergency calls these days. 

jaxlongtimer

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The real reason why they are leaving is safety concerns not garage problems over 230 calls from citizens employees involving insane people on the streets harassing them and threatening them and they had enough.

This Action News story comports with Skybox's post.  Whether real or not, it adds to Downtown's negative perception which doesn't help.
Quote
Safety concerns in Downtown Jacksonville driving out large local business

...JSO’s calls for service to the Everbank Center address show since 2021 that the area has received more than 230 calls. It’s unclear how many are related to the homeless but of those calls, about 25 of them dealt with either a suspicious or insane person.

The city appears to acknowledge safety and security is a problem.

In an emailed statement the city’s spokesperson said, “this speaks to the need for full funding of the comprehensive homelessness plan we have presented and proposed in the budget.”...

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/safety-concerns-jacksonville-driving-out-large-local-business/LJ4OZOSSUBE4RGQY2MRWQUJL4U/

thelakelander

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What's the plan to address the issue? The majority of talk these days revolve around giving LST a boat load of public incentives.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Jax_Developer

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What's the plan to address the issue? The majority of talk these days revolve around giving LST a boat load of public incentives.

Not to cause a ruckus, but I really do believe the concentration of: the jail, the homeless shelters, low-income housing projects & blighted properties is an extremely tough hurdle to overcome without meaningful critical mass downtown. Of course we generally know that, and the DIA has been focused on reaching critical mass.  The problem is, we need to separate the Northbank from their stats. I don't care how well the Southbank or Brooklyn are doing if we can't turn the central core around. Yes they are important, but the development issues in the central core are much different in my opinion. The irony is that the potential tax base in our Central Core dwarfs the Southbank or Brooklyn.

I keep saying... the idea that a developer is going to come in and develop a $100M+ property within a few blocks of a DT jail, is really hard to swallow. Maybe if the crime was under control, or if there wasn't as much vagrancy... but the combination of everything leaves a ton of room for doubt for many people. Chicken & Egg scenario.

Joey Mackey

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^It will be really interesting to see how successful the Pearl Street District turns out to be, they plan on building luxury apartments and amenities within a baseball's throw of City Rescue Mission.

Jax_Developer

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I hear ya. It will be interesting to watch. Gateway, to me, is not comparable to every other project downtown (excluding the entertainment district if that happens). Their vision is on a much longer time horizon than one-off projects.

acme54321

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I keep saying... the idea that a developer is going to come in and develop a $100M+ property within a few blocks of a DT jail, is really hard to swallow. Maybe if the crime was under control, or if there wasn't as much vagrancy... but the combination of everything leaves a ton of room for doubt for many people. Chicken & Egg scenario.

Bingo.  With the jail, Sulzbacher, homeless services in lavilla, etc who is going to want to risk investing downtown?  It's a total shit show at Main and State/Union too, actually make that the entire stretch of State and Union.  The other day someone shoed me a video of a crazy homeless guy in a wheelchair jacking it on the side of the road in front of the Four Seasons under construction.  Welcome to Jacksonville!  ::)

thelakelander

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I think Gateway's Pearl Street District is exactly what the Northbank needs. I look forward to seeing their progress.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fsu813

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I guess we will see what happens when the "no camping" law comes into effect on Oct. 1st

My guess is roughly the same thing that happened when the “no panhandling in the medians” law went into effect.

Have never seen more panhandlers in the median.

Just isn’t enforceable when JSO can barely field emergency calls these days. 

I can't speak to median panhandlers, nor the cause, but I know one homeless services program in Downtown has had *double* the number of walk ins year over year. The longer appropriate resources aren't provided to address local homeless issues, the worse the problem will grow.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2024, 11:35:43 AM by fsu813 »

Ken_FSU

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I guess we will see what happens when the "no camping" law comes into effect on Oct. 1st

My guess is roughly the same thing that happened when the “no panhandling in the medians” law went into effect.

Have never seen more panhandlers in the median.

Just isn’t enforceable when JSO can barely field emergency calls these days. 

I can't speak to median panhandlers, nor the cause, but I know one homeless services program in Downtown has had *double* the number of walk ins year over year. The longer appropriate resources aren't provided to address local homeless issues, the worse the problem will grow.

And that was with historically low unemployment.

It's only going to get worse with the labor market rapidly cooling as of late.

Which is why it's imperative to get some of these initiatives aimed at homelessness and affordable housing passed through Council quickly, rather than getting mired in political gamesmanship by bad actors as the city burns.

$56 million in fancy new parks won't move the needle if you don't address the fundamental problems. You see this in San Fran, where even the fanciest of Whole Foods, Nordstrom, and other retailers have fled.

Some of these knuckleheads on City Council are so averse to what they perceive as "handouts" that they fail to recognize the external benefits of tackling this crisis head-on and the opportunity cost of allowing the status quo to carry on.

Joey Mackey

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https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/sep/30/phillips-hunt-moving-to-riverside/

Another firsthand account that the number one problem for business owners in the downtown core is the unsafe condition created by the homeless/vagrants.