Author Topic: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval  (Read 18447 times)

pierre

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2024, 11:34:05 AM »
That is a sad list, but not surprising. It seems like how it’s worked for decades unfortunately.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2024, 12:25:17 PM »
Ken, agree 100%.  Thanks for supporting my comment that putting taxpayer dollars in public infrastructure would go much further than the treadmill we are on of subsidizing these developments to the tune of 20% to 30% or more.  I wish the City did this for me when I bought my home... I have done a lot to advance the tax rolls and economic activity on my land plot... so why shouldn't I get the same treatment?

So much for free market... how does one compete with this distortion of costs.  I get it for historic preservation as there is a higher goal in mind and, with any grants, the result is just being brought back to market costs for new construction.  But, that is the only exception that comes to mind that I would support.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2024, 02:28:13 PM by jaxlongtimer »

marcuscnelson

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2024, 12:53:29 PM »
I'm struggling to justify this beyond the nicety of a high-rise under construction. This money would probably be better served closing the capital gap on MOSH/Shipyards West/Riverfront Plaza, or funding a deal on the Trio, or getting RiversEdge to vertical construction, or completing the local match for the UF campus, or a common sense plan for an exhibition hall at Ford on Bay, or generally finishing more of the park plans. Lots of better and higher priorities before you even look outside of Downtown.

Maybe in a few years if the market improves this project could get a smaller incentive deal or just close the capital gap themselves. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice rendering, but I'm not sure this is the best use of $59 million right now. Also don't see why we'd be giving that money and right of first refusal on MOSH. I'd feel bad to essentially screw Related again, but as a city there's got to be an obligation for best and highest use with this much money.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Steve

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2024, 01:15:15 PM »
It would be interesting to see the potential ROI on this money here vs. the Trio.

fsu813

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2024, 02:31:58 PM »
I'm struggling to justify this beyond the nicety of a high-rise under construction.

If we get 9 cranes going in Downtown at once, the 10th is free. Basic economics.

Captain Zissou

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2024, 03:28:57 PM »
or getting RiversEdge to vertical construction,
This would just be showing favoritism toward one developer over another.  Preston Hollow isn't doing anything altruistic to bring Rivers Edge to Jacksonville.  Not defending Related, but I don't see how this would be more beneficial than providing the completion grant to Related other than this area has been derelict longer.

Jax_Developer

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2024, 05:12:20 PM »
It would be interesting to see the potential ROI on this money here vs. the Trio.

It won't be accurate when our investment body allows for studios to be underwritten at $2200+ per unit. Exact same issue with the Doro btw when they went to leaseup. Maybe an out of town company would see those rents as justified, but the DIA should have the ability to refute them. It makes their ROI calculation pointless.

Charles Hunter

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2024, 05:21:59 PM »
I'm struggling to justify this beyond the nicety of a high-rise under construction. This money would probably be better served closing the capital gap on MOSH/Shipyards West/Riverfront Plaza, or funding a deal on the Trio, or getting RiversEdge to vertical construction, or completing the local match for the UF campus, or a common sense plan for an exhibition hall at Ford on Bay, or generally finishing more of the park plans. Lots of better and higher priorities before you even look outside of Downtown.

Maybe in a few years if the market improves this project could get a smaller incentive deal or just close the capital gap themselves. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice rendering, but I'm not sure this is the best use of $59 million right now. Also don't see why we'd be giving that money and right of first refusal on MOSH. I'd feel bad to essentially screw Related again, but as a city there's got to be an obligation for best and highest use with this much money.

Agree completely. I don't know if the DIA realizes this - but they do not have an unlimited source of money, which means they must prioritize how they spend limited funds.

marcuscnelson

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2024, 05:51:39 PM »
or getting RiversEdge to vertical construction,
This would just be showing favoritism toward one developer over another.  Preston Hollow isn't doing anything altruistic to bring Rivers Edge to Jacksonville.  Not defending Related, but I don't see how this would be more beneficial than providing the completion grant to Related other than this area has been derelict longer.

My point was that RiversEdge is a project we have already made commitments to, and given the previous challenges in moving it forward, it would make more sense to use some of this money to push that horizontal work a little further instead of spreading ourselves thinner on a new site that seems to have a pretty uncertain future anyway. If the indication now (given the proposed right of first refusal) is that Related is also potentially going to develop the MOSH site anyway then what's the harm in focusing on the fountain park and other projects, building up the overall market and letting Related find more capital to finance their project with? Maybe by then everyone has their crap together and can holistically plan around the fountain.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2024, 07:22:29 PM »
or getting RiversEdge to vertical construction,
This would just be showing favoritism toward one developer over another.  Preston Hollow isn't doing anything altruistic to bring Rivers Edge to Jacksonville.  Not defending Related, but I don't see how this would be more beneficial than providing the completion grant to Related other than this area has been derelict longer.

RiversEdge is about to go vertical with a townhouse development. Its on the DDRB agenda this week.





"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2024, 07:26:34 PM »
All in, that's close to $100 million in city money we've put down to eliminate a vibrant museum/restaurant anchor for the south end of the Main Street Bridge, replace it with luxury housing, and lock up the MOSH site in arbitration for the next decade.

Toss in what's we've spent on the other side of the Main Street Bridge to buy out Toney Sleiman, demolish the Landing, redevelop it, and eventually subsidize whatever goofy high rise ends up on the private development pad, and we're likely looking at a total of nearly $200 million dollars just to replace what was currently there with something less vibrant.

We could have fully funded the MOSH's Southbank improvements, given Toney Sleimain the subsidy he wanted to redevelop the Landing with parking, and still had over $100 million left over to build out our park system, subsidize historic rehab, put extra police officers on the streets, rebuild James Weldon Johnson Park, two-way the streets, etc.

Wildly asinine.

Unfortunately, where we're at was so predictable a decade ago. On this forum and in previous editorials we said this would essentially be the outcome of when there's no master plan for publicly owned sites and when you subtract instead of enhancing and adding to what was already in place. You basically cost yourself hundreds of millions and set things back by a generation (i.e. a full decade or more). The ultimate end will be hundreds of millions spent upon completion and a completed product that will attract less people to the area than the things we intentionally took out. The proof of this outcome is 70 years of continuously talking about downtown revitalization and billions spent. We can repeat past failed redevelopment strategies and expect the next attempt to pay off (i.e. Skyway then...now U2C, instead of investing in proven solutions).

Anyway, I'm encouraged that change is happening now, moreso than I was back then. However, it still means we're going to reap what we've sown for the decisions made during the previous mayoral administration.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2024, 07:32:17 PM by thelakelander »
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2024, 09:53:13 PM »
Are these renderings for real or placeholders?  Hope not the former but if real, just when I thought we couldn't get uglier than the Doro... I can't imagine expensive townhouses with no architectural features or character, just plain building block looks.  Reminds me of prison guard towers or a militaristic building.  And, no trees across the front along the street?


RiversEdge is about to go vertical with a townhouse development. Its on the DDRB agenda this week.







thelakelander

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2024, 10:02:44 PM »




Looks pretty similar to the San Marco product they just put up down the street.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jax_hwy_engineer

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2024, 08:39:59 AM »
only thing I don't like about those places is the San Marco townhomes are going for like $800k-900k. Ridiculous. I wonder what these townhomes will list for?

Joey Mackey

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Re: RD River City Brewery project seeks final DDRB approval
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2024, 08:59:16 AM »
only thing I don't like about those places is the San Marco townhomes are going for like $800k-900k. Ridiculous. I wonder what these townhomes will list for?

Starting price is mid $700,000. https://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes-for-sale/Florida/Toll-Brothers-at-RiversEdge