Author Topic: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville  (Read 12662 times)


Ken_FSU

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2023, 10:45:53 AM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

BridgeTroll

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2023, 12:28:23 PM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

You assume these weapons were obtained legally by persons legally able to purchase them?
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Ken_FSU

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2023, 01:18:52 PM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

You assume these weapons were obtained legally by persons legally able to purchase them?

Statistically, probably not. I think it’s something like less than 15% of gun violence is committed by the legal owners of said firearms. But it’s also far too easy to get your hands on weapons illegally in this country. Answer to me is less about repealing the 2nd amendment, and more about fully vetting legal buyers and penalizing the shit out of illegal gun ownership, irresponsible gun ownership and illicit weapon sales. Can’t ban alcohol to help stop DUIs, but you can make the consequences of driving under the influence (or selling to minors, for example) so prohibitive that it deters people from doing it.

13 people shot by bullets in Jacksonville in one week certainly points to a problem. No shortage of different, valid ways to help combat it.

Jax_Developer

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2023, 01:35:20 PM »
3D printing will continue to change the landscape. Can basically print anything minus the actual receivers. Not sure if you have heard of switches, but they are the most popular byproduct of this. A lot easier to smuggle a simple piece than the entire gun. Going to make any form of gun control that much more difficult as materials get better for the actual “gun” component.

iMarvin

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2023, 02:49:25 PM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

You assume these weapons were obtained legally by persons legally able to purchase them?

Statistically, probably not. I think it’s something like less than 15% of gun violence is committed by the legal owners of said firearms. But it’s also far too easy to get your hands on weapons illegally in this country. Answer to me is less about repealing the 2nd amendment, and more about fully vetting legal buyers and penalizing the shit out of illegal gun ownership, irresponsible gun ownership and illicit weapon sales. Can’t ban alcohol to help stop DUIs, but you can make the consequences of driving under the influence (or selling to minors, for example) so prohibitive that it deters people from doing it.

13 people shot by bullets in Jacksonville in one week certainly points to a problem. No shortage of different, valid ways to help combat it.

I mean, the fact that the US is the only "developed" country with this issue should be enough evidence that guns are the problem, but I guess that would make too much sense.

Just another example of American exceptionalism ruining the country.

Ken_FSU

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2023, 04:39:06 PM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

You assume these weapons were obtained legally by persons legally able to purchase them?

Statistically, probably not. I think it’s something like less than 15% of gun violence is committed by the legal owners of said firearms. But it’s also far too easy to get your hands on weapons illegally in this country. Answer to me is less about repealing the 2nd amendment, and more about fully vetting legal buyers and penalizing the shit out of illegal gun ownership, irresponsible gun ownership and illicit weapon sales. Can’t ban alcohol to help stop DUIs, but you can make the consequences of driving under the influence (or selling to minors, for example) so prohibitive that it deters people from doing it.

13 people shot by bullets in Jacksonville in one week certainly points to a problem. No shortage of different, valid ways to help combat it.

I mean, the fact that the US is the only "developed" country with this issue should be enough evidence that guns are the problem, but I guess that would make too much sense.

Just another example of American exceptionalism ruining the country.

I both agree and disagree. I think the problem is the current climate. Everyone's angry. Mental illness is everywhere. More people than ever are chemically medicated. Income inequality has never been worse. The educational system is poor, and tailored to the elite. Politics have infiltrated everything. Social media has added a never before seen level of toxicity to the culture. Mainstream, fairly straight news has been replaced by increasingly fragmented echo chambers. Society is somehow becoming more racist. Instagram, and runaway rent inflation, and endless porn has made everyone insecure. And JTA is building a network of clown cars.

Guns are just metal and plastic.

Toss the 400 million guns on our streets into a powder keg like modern American society, though, and bad shit is gonna needlessly happen.

Kerosene on a fire.

I don't think they're inherently the singular problem, but I also think it's disingenuous to say having a gun at every street corner doesn't make things a hundred times worse.

Wouldn't shed a tear personally to see guns banned entirely, but can also respect responsible gun owners acting under their Constitutional right to possess a weapon.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 04:50:46 PM by Ken_FSU »

jaxoNOLE

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2023, 12:37:47 AM »
I don't believe there's much debate among the American people --forget the twittersphere and talk shows -- that universal background checks, better mental health resources, and actual enforcement of existing "lie and try" and straw purchase laws should be implemented.

I'd like to see these happen before more extensive measures are considered. It's horrible policy to add new regulations when existing laws are poorly enforced. To that end, enabling better policing and prosecution of gang activity coupled with youth interventions (a la Jax Journey) would likely do far more to reduce gun deaths than assault weapons bans, red flag laws, or background checks for each individual ammo purchase. But the boring, dirty tedium of regular enforcement doesn't grab headlines, rouse the base, or make for a flashy stump speech, so we offer thoughts and prayers and carefully exploit every tragedy to fit a narrative that conveniently involves no actual action.

Ken_FSU

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2023, 11:36:18 AM »
Another one last night.

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/09/29/pregnant-woman-shot-twice-by-2-men-with-masks-on-outside-jacksonville-music-studio-jso/

Pregnant woman hanging in the parking lot of a music studio when two dudes in ski masks jumped out of a van and lit her up.

Wild.

simms3

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2023, 03:17:53 PM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

You assume these weapons were obtained legally by persons legally able to purchase them?

Statistically, probably not. I think it’s something like less than 15% of gun violence is committed by the legal owners of said firearms. But it’s also far too easy to get your hands on weapons illegally in this country. Answer to me is less about repealing the 2nd amendment, and more about fully vetting legal buyers and penalizing the shit out of illegal gun ownership, irresponsible gun ownership and illicit weapon sales. Can’t ban alcohol to help stop DUIs, but you can make the consequences of driving under the influence (or selling to minors, for example) so prohibitive that it deters people from doing it.

13 people shot by bullets in Jacksonville in one week certainly points to a problem. No shortage of different, valid ways to help combat it.

I see recurring themes in all of these instances, unfortunately.

How are you going to balance the argument against mass incarceration when it results in a much higher percentage of black men in prison with your desire for greatly increased penalties for illegal gun ownership if caught?  You won't be able to have both arguments work in one direction.


Here's the solution and it isn't easy or pretty, or politically correct, but I believe it's correct.

Unwritten 1. God God God...we have abandoned Him and look at the results.  He has teachings in sacred scripture that are supposed to guide our lives, and so it's not just about praise and worship music on an occasional Sunday, He has the guidebook for life worth living.  We've gone full blown apostasy in our western civilization though, and the inner cities are so far gone in this regard it's just hard to watch.

1. Education reform so that children are getting educated, for real for real.  Right now most kids coming out of public schools, particularly inner city schools, don't know how to read, write, perform arithmetic, etc and they've all been taught some things that just aren't good for societal cohesion.  Almost like no education at all would honestly be better, but we need to fix this.  The teachers' unions are disastrous, and there is no longer any accountability for schools.


2. Personal accountability and a cultural change in the cities.  If I were being honest with my thoughts, this would be #1.  I see and bear witness to plenty of people taking personal responsibility for matters into their own hands (including their children's schooling as I know plenty who are homeschooling now and making sacrifices to do so), and anyone can do the same.  Inner city culture is also just rotten to the core (just look at rap music, and now other music too, it's just so rotten).  Unfortunately we can all witness some challenging parenting out in public and it's not something easy to ignore.  If we never call it out, it will never get fixed, and a lot of this is due to bad culture and this paralysis about discussing it because you're deemed racist if you do.  That trick doesn't work on me anymore.

One difference between say the Asian cultures and other cultures in inner cities is priorities - Asians really value their education and are willing to make lemonade out of lemon schools, whites to a lesser degree, and blacks and Hispanics to a much lesser degree.  I think that's a cultural thing...it's a stupid "rule" that we can't say that.  I've met Asians coming out of bad inner city schools and with language barriers who made it to top tier universities (even if they had to transfer in sophomore or junior year) purely on merit.  I think with that going on, these excuses made for other groups don't work. It's a cultural thing.


3. ENFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS and actually penalize people according to the law.  There are tons of laws on the books already regulating guns, ownership, use, etc.  Law-abiding gun owners are committing near 0% of the gun related crime in this country and you can look that up.



Finally, yes crime is on the rise here and there and during moments in time, but it is concentrated.  There are whole swaths of Jax where you can live and work and never encounter crime or see evidence of it.  It's an inner city, primarily black issue.  And it's never going to be fixed until people are honest about it.  My $0.02
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Ken_FSU

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2023, 10:33:51 PM »
While not discounting all of the socioeconomic elements of crime, it's almost, ALMOST like we should make it a little more difficult to obtain deadly weapons in this country.

You assume these weapons were obtained legally by persons legally able to purchase them?

Statistically, probably not. I think it’s something like less than 15% of gun violence is committed by the legal owners of said firearms. But it’s also far too easy to get your hands on weapons illegally in this country. Answer to me is less about repealing the 2nd amendment, and more about fully vetting legal buyers and penalizing the shit out of illegal gun ownership, irresponsible gun ownership and illicit weapon sales. Can’t ban alcohol to help stop DUIs, but you can make the consequences of driving under the influence (or selling to minors, for example) so prohibitive that it deters people from doing it.

13 people shot by bullets in Jacksonville in one week certainly points to a problem. No shortage of different, valid ways to help combat it.

I see recurring themes in all of these instances, unfortunately.

How are you going to balance the argument against mass incarceration when it results in a much higher percentage of black men in prison with your desire for greatly increased penalties for illegal gun ownership if caught?  You won't be able to have both arguments work in one direction.


Here's the solution and it isn't easy or pretty, or politically correct, but I believe it's correct.

Unwritten 1. God God God...we have abandoned Him and look at the results.  He has teachings in sacred scripture that are supposed to guide our lives, and so it's not just about praise and worship music on an occasional Sunday, He has the guidebook for life worth living.  We've gone full blown apostasy in our western civilization though, and the inner cities are so far gone in this regard it's just hard to watch.

1. Education reform so that children are getting educated, for real for real.  Right now most kids coming out of public schools, particularly inner city schools, don't know how to read, write, perform arithmetic, etc and they've all been taught some things that just aren't good for societal cohesion.  Almost like no education at all would honestly be better, but we need to fix this.  The teachers' unions are disastrous, and there is no longer any accountability for schools.


2. Personal accountability and a cultural change in the cities.  If I were being honest with my thoughts, this would be #1.  I see and bear witness to plenty of people taking personal responsibility for matters into their own hands (including their children's schooling as I know plenty who are homeschooling now and making sacrifices to do so), and anyone can do the same.  Inner city culture is also just rotten to the core (just look at rap music, and now other music too, it's just so rotten).  Unfortunately we can all witness some challenging parenting out in public and it's not something easy to ignore.  If we never call it out, it will never get fixed, and a lot of this is due to bad culture and this paralysis about discussing it because you're deemed racist if you do.  That trick doesn't work on me anymore.

One difference between say the Asian cultures and other cultures in inner cities is priorities - Asians really value their education and are willing to make lemonade out of lemon schools, whites to a lesser degree, and blacks and Hispanics to a much lesser degree.  I think that's a cultural thing...it's a stupid "rule" that we can't say that.  I've met Asians coming out of bad inner city schools and with language barriers who made it to top tier universities (even if they had to transfer in sophomore or junior year) purely on merit.  I think with that going on, these excuses made for other groups don't work. It's a cultural thing.


3. ENFORCE THE LAWS ALREADY ON THE BOOKS and actually penalize people according to the law.  There are tons of laws on the books already regulating guns, ownership, use, etc.  Law-abiding gun owners are committing near 0% of the gun related crime in this country and you can look that up.



Finally, yes crime is on the rise here and there and during moments in time, but it is concentrated.  There are whole swaths of Jax where you can live and work and never encounter crime or see evidence of it.  It's an inner city, primarily black issue.  And it's never going to be fixed until people are honest about it.  My $0.02

Will just say that, I'm barely 40 years old, and my parents grew up in an era of segregated schools. We're one, maybe two generations removed from Jim Crow and redlining. To me, calling gun violence in Jacksonville a "primarily black issue" or a "primarily inner city" issue unfairly assigns blame to things like race and geography while ignoring the root cause of why these groups/geographies are different than the "whole swaths of Jax where you can live and work and never encounter crime or see evidence of it." Culture is as much something you're born into as it an active choice.

simms3

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2023, 08:02:20 AM »
Well, not to say segregation was a good time because obviously that's a horrific time (that's now quite removed by time), but I doubt in those times you had black students acting like this on a daily basis in the schools (or really anyone):

https://twitter.com/libbyemmons/status/1707788076817215776

Unfortunately, that was from yesterday, and pretty much every day there are videos like this that come out from around the country.  It's really bad.  And now we are long since integrated.  Although as I mentioned, in my church community there are plenty of young families of all stripes who can't afford private school but they choose to make sacrifices to homeschool so that their kids aren't having to deal with that.

That's obviously an inner city school, but you can see an Asian (mixed?) and white student in the foreground just trying to mind their business while a bunch of black girls scream and curse and throw a metal chair at the teacher (knocking her out).  Recently even here locally you had the black student that pummeled the crap out of his teacher (sending her to the ER) for confiscating his phone in class.  I'm not saying it's only black students acting this way, but the vast vast majority.

There's very clearly a bad culture and a culture of violence, and yes, that permeates out into the streets.  It ain't my fault as a random guy living my life as far away from that violence as I can get.  I live in Avondale where I have quite a few black neighbors.  Looks like they're doing the same thing I am, avoiding the dangerous parts and not contributing to the violence.  So it's yes, a localized inner city mostly black problem.

I actively choose not to listen to rap music or really most pop music, which is all vile trash these days (*and promotes violence*).  And for all who say it just isn't possible to leave the inner city and be successful, that's not true, there are TONS of role models to look to.  Unfortunately the black community would simply never try to promote people like Dr. Ben Carson, the first doctor to ever separate conjoined twins and later a politician.

You are your choices and unfortunately the sad truth is that it's really not necessarily society's fault that there is plain bad and violent culture in the inner cities.  People are always trying to help in the inner city - there is so much charity always happening.  I think the welfare state and in my opinion, certain leftist policies have contributed immensely to the problem, but it's also a culture that the inner city community is going to have to examine and work on itself because it has really created this culture for itself.

What it isn't is my legal ability to own my own firearms for sport, pleasure and self defense.  No way, has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment or legal gun ownership.  The trigger doesn't pull itself.  And in the event some inner city crime comes to my doorstep, I would like to be able to meet force with force and not wait for the cops to find my family's dead bodies later.
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thelakelander

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2023, 09:50:08 AM »
One difference between say the Asian cultures and other cultures in inner cities is priorities - Asians really value their education and are willing to make lemonade out of lemon schools, whites to a lesser degree, and blacks and Hispanics to a much lesser degree.  I think that's a cultural thing...it's a stupid "rule" that we can't say that.  I've met Asians coming out of bad inner city schools and with language barriers who made it to top tier universities (even if they had to transfer in sophomore or junior year) purely on merit.  I think with that going on, these excuses made for other groups don't work. It's a cultural thing.

I'm Black and I will tell you that this is not true. I'm saying this as someone who knows, was raised and lives my culture. Living my culture made me have a desire to go to a HBCU, which I'd bet my house that no HBCU is on the list of "top tier universities". I'd rate a HBCU over a PWI every single time, but that's the perspective based on how my culture values these educational facilities. Doesn't make either above or below another.

I'd say that there's a huge difference between culture and and stereotyping based on skin color. We can't really loop any of us into a box, regardless of race. Gullah culture is very different from Creole or Bahamian culture, despite skin color being the same. We also can't throw half the world into a box because a group of people happen to have Spanish as a first language, despite being from various countries and cultures.  There are a ton of systemic, economic, and environmental issues at place that lead to certain outcomes in various pockets of the country. Our issues are way more complex than skin color.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 09:57:13 AM by thelakelander »
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thelakelander

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2023, 10:25:46 AM »
Well, not to say segregation was a good time because obviously that's a horrific time (that's now quite removed by time), but I doubt in those times you had black students acting like this on a daily basis in the schools (or really anyone):

https://twitter.com/libbyemmons/status/1707788076817215776

Skipping the link, I'll provide my parent's opinion on this, since they grew up and graduated high school prior to desegregation.

They believe that Black children and historic Black neighborhoods were better off during segregation. First, let me specify the Black people and communities they're referring too. This is the population that were the descendants of enslaved in the U.S. and subjected to a century of racial terror during Jim Crow, redlining, living in the Deep South and having a bunch of other environmental shit thrown their way against their will, simply because the color of their skin. Now Black people are global, so someone else that has the same color but not that historical generational experience of dealing with this in the U.S. specifically may have a completely different cultural story altogether.

Now, getting back to growing up in Jim Crow Florida. During that time there was a vested interest in the community to see that the next generation was better off than their generation. The teachers were from the neighborhood, more educated, looked like the kids they were teaching, shared a similar culture, knew their families and parents, attended church together and were just as invested in every kid's success and education, as their own parents.  All of this, despite being totally discriminated against and being forced to have second class infrastructure, used books, substandard school buildings, etc. Much of our local cuisine, music like jazz, blues, rock n roll, etc. all have their roots and origins in this space. To me, that's the true definition of turning lemons into lemonade.

With desegregation, most of those Black teachers, despite being more educated at the time, were laid off, the Black neighborhood schools were closed and kids were bussed out to schools and taught by people.....many of which could care less about their future. To make matters worse, housing projects were built in many of these neighborhoods, expressways were intentionally built in their economic hearts as payback for the civil rights fights (Ashley Street and Sugar Hill are local examples that Haydon Burns promised to take out). All of this resulted in those with the economic means, moving out to greener pastures where they were once not allowed to live.....furthering economically crushing districts like Myrtle Avenue, Kings Road, APR, Moncrief Road, etc. Now we're dealing with some serious pockets of hopelessness, poverty, and lack of economic opportunity.

Growing up being bussed, having teachers tell me that I would never amount to anything in life, and later supported by my own research and the research of several others, I 100% believe them. While we can't change the past, we can change the future, so that's what I spend much of my focus, effort and energy on. For me, it's not the time to finger point at various groups of people. We can simply acknowledge the history of how we've arrived to 2023 and work on the things (modifying systemic public policy and investment, in my space of expertise) to make society truly economically inclusive for everyone.
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Florida Power And Light

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Re: It has been a very violent week so far in Jacksonville
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2023, 08:32:03 PM »
I reside within Duval County in a neighborhood full of guns ……and No Gun “ Violence” .
The vast majority of guns in the area apparently well behaved.
Why??