Author Topic: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future  (Read 29152 times)

Ken_FSU

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #165 on: November 16, 2023, 12:39:29 AM »
By my rough math, the tale of the tape is:

Gateway Jax
Plans to deliver:
1,121 Apartments
70,000 square feet of retail space
on a $419m project

Is asking the city for:
$38 million in cash (completion grants)
$57 million in tax rebates via REV grant

Southeast/Atkins at the Trio
Plans to deliver:
312 units (143 hotel, 169 apartment)
6,500 square feet of retail space + a restaurant
on a $179m project

Is asking the city for:
$49 million in cash ($25m completion grant from the city + $24 million in forgivable loans)
$14 million in tax rebates via REV grant

I can't imagine it's going to help Southeast's case with City Council when you've got one developer laying out significantly more capital, assuming much more upfront risk, and loading their incentives on the back end in incremental tax rebates, while you're asking the city to lay down 30% of the project cost in cash upfront as a condition of moving forward.

fsu813

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #166 on: November 16, 2023, 07:15:25 AM »
Apples and oranges.

But to your comment, no it won't help. Quite a bit of effort will have to be put forth sharing why the Trio is a different animal than the Gateway Jax project.

Jax_Developer

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #167 on: November 16, 2023, 08:42:25 AM »
Pretty sure the Trio is being held hostage...

58,000 SF new construction + 14,000 total SF bank building + 50,500 SF + 23,600 SF = 146,100 SF total

$179,000,000 / 146,100 SF = $1,225 PSF

The entire cluster of projects was once only $90M, per Atkins himself.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2017/dec/21/barnett-bank-building-owner-applies-for-dollar22-4-million-renovation-permit/

For reference, the Barnett Bank building was performed for roughly $170-$190 PSF. ($35-38M ish in total project costs as a high estimate). So the Trio must have gold toilets!

jaxlongtimer

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #168 on: November 16, 2023, 05:50:31 PM »
I don't know the square footage, but I recall that Cowford Chophouse came in around $10 million.  Adjusted for construction inflation, I would guess that might be around $20 million today.

Maybe one of you could check this math and make that comparison as an historic renovation can easily cost much more than new.  Question is how much more is appropriate.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2023, 06:50:18 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Ken_FSU

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #169 on: November 16, 2023, 07:33:47 PM »
The Trio is such a tough one to figure out.

On one hand, you absolutely cannot create a vibrant Laura Street corridor without redeveloping the Trio. Thus, if you consider Laura Street key to jumpstarting downtown, the Trio might be the single most important project in the CBD. Letting it sit blighted and rotting for even 5 more years should not be an option.

On the other hand, it is really hard to make a compelling case for handing a private developer $50 million in cash and forgivable loans to build a mid-sized hotel and luxury housing. With so many needs elsewhere in the city, I really can't fault anyone for thinking that it would be insane to give Southeast more money that we're putting into Riverfront Plaza, Friendship Park, and Musical Heritage Park combined for a development that they'll own and the city won't even realize full property taxes on for like 20 years.

Apparently Southeast has some sort of bridge loan on the Trio that matures before the end of the year. Would be interested to know what would happen to the property if they defaulted.

Jax_Developer

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #170 on: November 16, 2023, 11:06:42 PM »
I don't know the square footage, but I recall that Cowford Chophouse came in around $10 million.  Adjusted for construction inflation, I would guess that might be around $20 million today.

Maybe one of you could check this math and make that comparison as an historic renovation can easily cost much more than new.  Question is how much more is appropriate.

Generally with you on that. I guess the trio could be in a "very critical" condition and needs complete structural shoring. Chophouse I believed had a partially collapsed roof system and required an expensive brick preservation process. My impression is simply that the Trio is much more structurally sound, but maybe I'm wrong there. Also, the trio being 10x larger should have better economics (in theory).

The part that does not pencil out, is the fact that 40% of the trio build is new construction. Certainly crazy to put that build cost at $1,200+ PSF. So really what that means is the historical rehab is more than $1,200 PSF. That's where I think it approaches Chophouse levels on a PSF, which it never should. Hard to say how the city should move forward on this one. I think it sets a bad precedence.

Captain Zissou

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #171 on: November 17, 2023, 09:57:02 AM »
I don't know the square footage, but I recall that Cowford Chophouse came in around $10 million.  Adjusted for construction inflation, I would guess that might be around $20 million today.

Maybe one of you could check this math and make that comparison as an historic renovation can easily cost much more than new.  Question is how much more is appropriate.
While you can't compare the Trio to a modern tilt up concrete structure, I think there's also a distinction between the work needed here and what was done to Cowford.  Cowford was falling in on itself and essentially was disassembled and rebuilt brick by brick.  Each brick's location was noted as it was taken out of the building and then placed back in the same location.  That added extreme costs.  The trio's buildings were stabilized years ago and are not in danger of collapse.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: The Downtown Investment Authority's Future
« Reply #172 on: November 17, 2023, 11:41:36 AM »
I don't know the square footage, but I recall that Cowford Chophouse came in around $10 million.  Adjusted for construction inflation, I would guess that might be around $20 million today.

Maybe one of you could check this math and make that comparison as an historic renovation can easily cost much more than new.  Question is how much more is appropriate.
While you can't compare the Trio to a modern tilt up concrete structure, I think there's also a distinction between the work needed here and what was done to Cowford.  Cowford was falling in on itself and essentially was disassembled and rebuilt brick by brick.  Each brick's location was noted as it was taken out of the building and then placed back in the same location.  That added extreme costs.  The trio's buildings were stabilized years ago and are not in danger of collapse.

The reason I brought up Cowford, aside from historic renovation costs, was to highlight what can show up unexpectedly.  I know the owners of Cowford did not bargain for rebuilding the walls brick by brick when they started.  I was trying to suggest maybe such unexpected issues are present in the Trio that may not be well known in the public domain at this time.  Absolutely, they need to be transparent and justify their ask, including if there are such "surprises" they have uncovered.