The Downtown Investment Authority's Future

[thelakelander]

We killed +30 businesses with the forced closure and demolition of the Landing. That alone, set downtown back by a generation. It will be years before there's a concentrated spot for 30 businesses to open. Revitalization must embrace the Three C's. Any moves in the opposite direction, will only set things back further, regardless of the financial investment.

[Ken_FSU]

We killed +30 businesses with the forced closure and demolition of the Landing. That alone, set downtown back by a generation. It will be years before there's a concentrated spot for 30 businesses to open. Revitalization must embrace the Three C's. Any moves in the opposite direction, will only set things back further, regardless of the financial investment.

I wonder what the below stat looks like had we not killed the Landing and sent said concentrated spot for 30 businesses packing.

When it comes to getting people back downtown, Jacksonville is doing a poor job....

In Jacksonville, downtown visits are now 70% of their 2019 levels. By comparison, the national average is 74%. For further comparison, Jacksonville lags behind almost every major city in the Southeast, including its Florida neighbors of Tampa, Orlando and Miami....

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2023/10/24/downtown-recovery-trends-local-jax.html

[thelakelander]

Very likely, it would be the exact opposite. Instead of spending millions to eliminate 30 existing businesses to create a vacant lot, assume a fraction of those funds would have been invested to upgrade the place. We'd like have double the amount of retail, dining and entertainment on that site, anchoring a central green space that would have already been completed. This amounts to a critical mass in the heart of the Northbank, which likely stimulates spin-off investment and development on adjacent properties at a time when the market was ripe for those types of projects.

This is all common sense stuff and easy to pull off.........as long as we can keep local politics from hampering simple market dynamics.

[jaxlongtimer]

While Jax is snoozing, Nashville is booming.  On a recent trip, I counted over a half dozen high rises currently under construction to be added to the 2020 picture here and read of reports of more to come.

[thelakelander]

Back around 2005 or so, there was a heated thread on Skyscrapercity.com about which ville would see its downtown transformed the fastest.  People representing Jacksonville, Louisville and Nashville used to go at it. 18 years later, it's clear who won.

[heights unknown]

(sigh)..."if only Jax could." Right? No, we shouldn't shrink back to pre-consolidation city limit(s) but, if we're not going to live up to the "hype" of being in the top 12 cities population-wise in the USA, then we should ditch the consolidation thing, annex certain areas outside the old pre-consolidation city limits, and be number 35 or so biggest city in the USA (which is probably where we should be). If we did that, Jax would probably be slightly larger than Miami, or maybe a slight smaller in population (than Miami). At any rate, gobbling up all of Duval less the beach towns and one other town (if I remember correctly), doesn't up our image or make us who we really want to be or need to be because Jax refuses to live up to being a 1 million population top tier city. Lastly, click on the below link go to the diagram search form section and type in Nashville for the city, Tennessee for the State, and United States for the country, and "x" in "highrise, lowrise, and tower." Nashville currently has under construction a 700 foot plus tower, and other towers in the 600 and 500 foot range also under construction or proposed.

https://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?

[Charles Hunter]

Sidetrack
Of course, the purpose of the consolidation of Jacksonville and Duval County (sorta minus the 3 Beaches towns and Baldwin) was not to "be the largest city in area" or reach a certain population. As I remember, the City pop was around 200k at the time, and the miles and miles of pine trees outside the old city limits didn't add that many people.
The purposes of consolidation were to end duplicative governments and to dilute Black voting power.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion about the DIA

[heights unknown]

Sidetrack
Of course, the purpose of the consolidation of Jacksonville and Duval County (sorta minus the 3 Beaches towns and Baldwin) was not to "be the largest city in area" or reach a certain population. As I remember, the City pop was around 200k at the time, and the miles and miles of pine trees outside the old city limits didn't add that many people.
The purposes of consolidation were to end duplicative governments and to dilute Black voting power.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion about the DIA

And?..........I just love freedom of opinion and speech, and I already knew about what you said my Friend; but...if we are going to uphold that image of a 1 mil pop city, we need to act like it, and look like it, that's all I am saying; and now I return you back to YOUR regularly scheduled discussion about the DIA as well; and don't forget, the DIA does have a play in all of this. Thank you so much Charles for your service.

[jaxlongtimer]

If consolidation was an issue, Nashville should not be where it is today.  Next to Jax, Nashville is probably the next, or close to next, largest consolidation (with Davidson County) in the mainland U.S.

FYI, Jax consolidation has been attributed to a number of drivers including addressing corruption scandals (lots of officials were indicted pre-consolidation) in both the City and County governments, creating efficiencies by eliminating duplication, growing and diversifying the tax base and diluting the power of the African-American community to control downtown.

The real reason for failure is not consolidation but poor, do-nothing, backward thinking, good ol'boy network elected officials.  This poor leadership can be traced back to at least the era when Jax officials ran off the movie industry some 100 years ago.  Milestones since include the 1950's when City leaders came down on Elvis Presley, attempted, in 1964, to maintain a segregated audience for the Beatles' concert in the Gator Bowl and in the 1980's when they tried to take down the event signage for "The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas" at the Civic Auditorium.  Too often, "burning" issues like these trumped the nitty gritty ones of building a successful and growing city.

Sandwiched in-between are years of catering to special interests, power brokers and developers over everyday citizens.

Unfortunately, our citizens bear some or much of the blame as a result of being disengaged, uncaring, apathetic and voting (or not voting) for candidates based on issues beyond local ones, such as social, religious and party positions.

Much of this remained evident during Curry's administration.  We can only hope Deegan can reverse some of this (not going to be easy cleaning out over 100 years of sins in 4 or 8 years, unfortunately). But, we must temper our expectations as even she has to fight vestiges of poor leadership still residing in a significant block of our City Council.

[Charles Hunter]

jaxlongtimer - Home Run! You summarized Jacksonville's problems succinctly and IMO accurately.

[Snaketoz]

X100

[thelakelander]

and in the 1980's when they tried to take down the event signage for "The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas" at the Civic Auditorium.

LOL....what?!

[heights unknown]

LOLOL...gang up on. Beautiful. People will be people, and people have that right. It's not a matter of who bats a thousand, but respect others opinions even if you disagree; THAT my Friends is being a man. IMO Jax had an identity problem and still has. And in addition, all these decades later, the leaders of Jax are failing to ensure that Jax prospers, succeeds, and move up and forward rather than fail, and, remain "below the bar" relative to peer cities, etc. I'd better mention this as DIA has played into and contributed towards that failure or "unsatness." (or so you guys always say). Again, and lastly, IMO if you're not going to "raise that bar" for Jax to be world class, top tier, etc., then take back that consolidation "thing." Be who you really are; a city that's not top tier or even close to world class (and yes population does play a part IMO). One more thing so ALL OF YOU won't get it twisted; I love Jax, was born here, and raised here for a few years. I also lived in Jax in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, and to be honest, not much has changed, especially downtown and the Northside of the River. So something is wrong. I understand that shrinking back to previous limits is not the answer. But at least strive to improve and be more than what you say you are or what you appear to be, and yes, population says one BIG thing about Jax if you've never been here; i.e., you will be expecting something much bigger than what you know or have seen when you arrive. So I won't be told not to sidetrack, DIA PLAYS A PART, A BIG PART IN THIS IMO. Thanks. There. I said it all. I got it off of my chest. No, I don't know as much about all of this as you guys do because this is not my field of expertise, but, RESPECT MY OPINIONS. And if I am wrong, correct me; I'm a retired professional and I can handle it!

[jaxlongtimer]

and in the 1980's when they tried to take down the event signage for "The Best Little Whorehouse In Texas" at the Civic Auditorium.

LOL....what?!

It's true.  Some Jax officials had a problem with the name.  City tried to remove it from the sign board or use other words at the auditorium but the producers threatened to sue as it turns out they had a binding contract with the City to put the name on the board.  City had to back down but not after getting its share of national publicity.

[jaxlongtimer]

DIA head, Lori Boyer, was the featured guest today on First Coast Connect.  Replay link is below.  Boyer, after laying delays at the feet of Parks and Public Works, went on to note that the fountain would likely be ready in early 2024 but the rest of the park would be out a year.

Predictably, she saw downtown progress through rose-tinted glasses, even though the host brought up the concerns often presented on the Jaxson.

https://news.wjct.org/show/first-coast-connect/2023-11-03/next-time-on-first-coast-connect-downtown-development-why-flamingos-are-taking-over