Jaguars’ stadium, sports district could cost City of Jacksonville more than $1B

[jaxlongtimer]

What exactly is urban food?

And where does pizza get categorized?

Is it urban or international?

These are questions we need answered.

Urban…

As in anything Urban Meyer might favor.  LOL.  Of course, that could be distasteful to the rest of us.  Jags should have picked another term, it would appear, given the history here  .

[marcuscnelson]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

It's always going to be nuts that they decided to ramp the expressway to street level instead of just tearing it down and trucking it away. Surely the money they spent rebuilding that part could have paid to demolish the rest.

I wonder, are we federally committed to that structure now, like we are with the Skyway?

[Steve]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

It's always going to be nuts that they decided to ramp the expressway to street level instead of just tearing it down and trucking it away. Surely the money they spent rebuilding that part could have paid to demolish the rest.

I wonder, are we federally committed to that structure now, like we are with the Skyway?

No, it just would be more cost - and I bet materially more cost because of the proximity to buildings and such. That said it's a dumb ramp.

[thelakelander]

That parking lot behind Maxwell House is an old railyard. It's probably more contamination they didn't want to deal with.

[Jax_Developer]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

It's always going to be nuts that they decided to ramp the expressway to street level instead of just tearing it down and trucking it away. Surely the money they spent rebuilding that part could have paid to demolish the rest.

I wonder, are we federally committed to that structure now, like we are with the Skyway?

SR-228 over the Hart Bridge is apart of the National Highway System so I would bet that severing that connection in anyway to DT is likely against "the rules" somewhere.

[Charles Hunter]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

It's always going to be nuts that they decided to ramp the expressway to street level instead of just tearing it down and trucking it away. Surely the money they spent rebuilding that part could have paid to demolish the rest.

I wonder, are we federally committed to that structure now, like we are with the Skyway?

SR-228 over the Hart Bridge is apart of the National Highway System so I would bet that severing that connection in anyway to DT is likely against "the rules" somewhere.

When FDOT removed the elevated portion between A Philip Randolf and the Hart Bridge, the (probably) designated that stretch of Bay Street (formerly Gator Bowl Blvd.) as SR 228. There's no reason, if all the remaining elevated ramps were removed, they couldn't redesignate the appropriate surface streets to keep the connection.
Forsyth Street already carries SR 228 between Main and Liberty. Add Liberty between Forsyth and Bay, then Bay Street to join existing SR 228  on Bay at APR.
Coming off the Hart Bridge, stay on Bay Street to Ocean, and add the two blocks of Ocean between Bay and Adams, joining existing NB SR 228 on Ocean. Remove SR 228 from Adam, between Liberty (Hart Ramps) and Ocean.
There's some paperwork for FDOT to complete, and maybe a public hearing (although that might only apply to US numbered routes.

About a decade ago, FDOT removed US 17 / SR 228 from College and Post, from Riverside Ave. through Brooklyn, and Water Street, and moved them up to I-10 and I-95, then to the State/Union pair.

I think thelakelander's is correct about concerns over the potential for industrial contamination at the bases of all those bridge piers holding up the overpasses. I am surprised this wasn't a problem for the stretch along Bay Street.

[Jax_Developer]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

It's always going to be nuts that they decided to ramp the expressway to street level instead of just tearing it down and trucking it away. Surely the money they spent rebuilding that part could have paid to demolish the rest.

I wonder, are we federally committed to that structure now, like we are with the Skyway?

SR-228 over the Hart Bridge is apart of the National Highway System so I would bet that severing that connection in anyway to DT is likely against "the rules" somewhere.

When FDOT removed the elevated portion between A Philip Randolf and the Hart Bridge, the (probably) designated that stretch of Bay Street (formerly Gator Bowl Blvd.) as SR 228. There's no reason, if all the remaining elevated ramps were removed, they couldn't redesignate the appropriate surface streets to keep the connection.
Forsyth Street already carries SR 228 between Main and Liberty. Add Liberty between Forsyth and Bay, then Bay Street to join existing SR 228  on Bay at APR.
Coming off the Hart Bridge, stay on Bay Street to Ocean, and add the two blocks of Ocean between Bay and Adams, joining existing NB SR 228 on Ocean. Remove SR 228 from Adam, between Liberty (Hart Ramps) and Ocean.
There's some paperwork for FDOT to complete, and maybe a public hearing (although that might only apply to US numbered routes.

About a decade ago, FDOT removed US 17 / SR 228 from College and Post, from Riverside Ave. through Brooklyn, and Water Street, and moved them up to I-10 and I-95, then to the State/Union pair.

I think thelakelander's is correct about concerns over the potential for industrial contamination at the bases of all those bridge piers holding up the overpasses. I am surprised this wasn't a problem for the stretch along Bay Street.

Are there not portions of that overpass that would just be rebuilt as another overpass given it goes over the creek, an underpass and some private property? I'm saying you can't sever the connection SR-228 has with DT from Gator Bowl Blvd & the Hart Bridge. Bay St. wouldn't qualify more than likely. Road width/use & the current overpass now restricting its height. Or are you saying abandon that ROW? Just trying to follow.

[thelakelander]

You can always do a jurisdictional transfer, if COJ and FDOT would agree.

[Charles Hunter]

My scenario is based on removing all of the Hart elevated ramps between Liberty Street and A. Philip Randolph - including the newly built structure at Bay and APR - and moving the SR-228 designation to the appropriate surface streets. I don't see why Bay Street wouldn't qualify to be a state road. Many streets in Jacksonville have lower capacity and design standards than Bay Street, either in its present configuration or the modifications that may come with the U2C project.

Once the Sulzbacher Center moves out to Golfair, it may be possible to connect Monroe Street across Hogan Creek - while giving consideration to the needs of the Emerald Necklace and McCoys Creek daylighting projects. This would improve connectivity between the Downtown Core and the Sports and Entertainment District.

The big question would be who would pay for removing approximately 9000 feet (~1.7 miles) of elevated roadway? This would not be cheap, especially considering the active uses adjacent to, and beneath, the structures, and the potential soil contamination issues.

[acme54321]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

It's always going to be nuts that they decided to ramp the expressway to street level instead of just tearing it down and trucking it away. Surely the money they spent rebuilding that part could have paid to demolish the rest.

I wonder, are we federally committed to that structure now, like we are with the Skyway?

No, it just would be more cost - and I bet materially more cost because of the proximity to buildings and such. That said it's a dumb ramp.

Yeah, I get why they didn't do it then. Once Sulzbacher is gone though that changes. 

Remove the ramps and put the blocks where they land back on the tax rolls.  Realign Monroe.  Convert the low lying areas along Hogan's green into park space witht he emerald trail. 

Then there is the whole Jail/Communinty Transiston Center...

[Jax_Developer]

My scenario is based on removing all of the Hart elevated ramps between Liberty Street and A. Philip Randolph - including the newly built structure at Bay and APR - and moving the SR-228 designation to the appropriate surface streets. I don't see why Bay Street wouldn't qualify to be a state road. Many streets in Jacksonville have lower capacity and design standards than Bay Street, either in its present configuration or the modifications that may come with the U2C project.

Once the Sulzbacher Center moves out to Golfair, it may be possible to connect Monroe Street across Hogan Creek - while giving consideration to the needs of the Emerald Necklace and McCoys Creek daylighting projects. This would improve connectivity between the Downtown Core and the Sports and Entertainment District.

The big question would be who would pay for removing approximately 9000 feet (~1.7 miles) of elevated roadway? This would not be cheap, especially considering the active uses adjacent to, and beneath, the structures, and the potential soil contamination issues.

Oh I see. That's actually why I think it might not work, maybe they could re-assign the designation elsewhere. The National Highway System requires some obscure standards for national defense transit, which I don't really understand but I know exist.

The chokepoint of it all going to Bay St is what likely disqualifies this option given the capacity I would bet. Currently Gator Bowl is fed by several roads that share the designation depending on the direction of traffic. Eliminating that all together would I think would require additional time & effort is all I'm saying. Definitely possible, but you likely need to find another way of accessing Hart Bridge with a similar throughput.

[thelakelander]

My scenario is based on removing all of the Hart elevated ramps between Liberty Street and A. Philip Randolph - including the newly built structure at Bay and APR - and moving the SR-228 designation to the appropriate surface streets. I don't see why Bay Street wouldn't qualify to be a state road. Many streets in Jacksonville have lower capacity and design standards than Bay Street, either in its present configuration or the modifications that may come with the U2C project.

Once the Sulzbacher Center moves out to Golfair, it may be possible to connect Monroe Street across Hogan Creek - while giving consideration to the needs of the Emerald Necklace and McCoys Creek daylighting projects. This would improve connectivity between the Downtown Core and the Sports and Entertainment District.

The big question would be who would pay for removing approximately 9000 feet (~1.7 miles) of elevated roadway? This would not be cheap, especially considering the active uses adjacent to, and beneath, the structures, and the potential soil contamination issues.

Oh I see. That's actually why I think it might not work, maybe they could re-assign the designation elsewhere. The National Highway System requires some obscure standards for national defense transit, which I don't really understand but I know exist.

Charles Hunter is very very familiar! Moreso than anyone else on this board!

[jaxlongtimer]

Stadium name being changed back to Everbank.  Will be interesting to see how fast FDOT changes their exit signs.... seems they get priority over other signs  .  You can tell who has clout.

[Ken_FSU]

Parking could end being a real hidden cost to this whole thing. The proposed plan wipes out a ton of spots. Lamping mentioned the potential need for parking garages and remote parking. I get the vibe that’s not included in the price tag.

[thelakelander]

If there is a parking problem, I'm confident the private sector and market will respond to it. All of that mixed use development will have parking and private Eastside and Talleyrand property owners will benefit as well.