Jaguars’ stadium, sports district could cost City of Jacksonville more than $1B

[Steve]

I would not be at all surprised to see the roof panels go away as part of matching costs with funding realities. The main need is shade for fans. We can do without a Final 4, and Wrestlemania has been outside many times.

I'm also not sure a Final Four would ever work in what would still be an outdoor stadium. I agree that temps are usually very nice in Early April here, and while the roof would certainly cover for rain it's still an outdoor facility.

That said, if the structure is needed anyway for the roof over the seats are you materially saving money there (Aside from hurricane issues)?

[jaxlongtimer]

I am guessing the roof (1) is needed to prevent blowing/swirling winds in the stadium, some of which might carry rain in a storm to all the fans in seats, (2) is a factor in directing the crosswinds that are supposed to "cool" the stadium and (3) will be engineered to withstand a hurricane, probably a building code requirement regardless of costs.

It is just too obvious that #3 above is a minimum requirement for a roof nowadays, regardless of what is under it, to not design for that.  Now, the question is how reliable will the engineering be in the real world.  Let's hope we never have to find out .

I might add that for some $1 billion of taxpayer's dollars, the Jags better not skimp and deliver on a world class stadium experience as promised.  Removing the indicated/promised roof will offer negative optics in this regard possibly crimping fan support.

[Steve]

I might add that for some $1 billion of taxpayer's dollars, the Jags better not skimp and deliver on a world class stadium experience as promised.  Removing the indicated/promised roof will offer negative optics in this regard possibly crimping fan support.

100% here. Unless the bill goes down dramatically, there better not be a repeat of Daily's Place.

[Ken_FSU]

Realize I'm in the minority here, but I still contend that what we ended up with at Daily's Place was better, smarter, and more functional than what was originally proposed.

The original renderings were shinier, but they were ultimately just a private practice field for the Jags inside of a glass bubble, and an open lawn amphitheater covered with a wavy top.







Daily's Place, heat aside, has legitimately great sight lines from every single seat in the house, integrates the practice field and amphitheater into the stadium for game day (and has cool views of the football field from Daily's Place), and pops on TV with the LED roof.

It's different than the initial design, yes, but for the public, it's a better end result, in my opinion.

[marcuscnelson]

For some reason people always seem to forget about the intermediate renderings of Daily's Place that were shaped like what we got but with much more visual appeal:







This without the value engineering would have been great.

[Ken_FSU]

^I could be mistaken, but I think the pedestrian bridge was always positioned as a future Phase 2 addition to connect the sports district to Met Park over Bay Street.

I'm hoping when the City takes control over the flex field, the hanger doors are kept open more frequently.

The whole building looks so much better from street level when it's opened up.

[marcuscnelson]

Some additional details from today's huddle, via this thread.

Congratulations Developer, here's your jail mention.

Comparison to Nashville's plans:



Overall phasing plan:



Stadium project timeline:



A "food district" concept for stadium dining:



Really bad picture because it's lifted from a video but this is the comparison on what other stadiums are doing:



A few other notes:

• Lamping notes they intentionally avoided endorsing or donating to any mayoral candidates to avoid a conflict, but have spoken to Mayor-elect Deegan twice since the election.
• Lamping says if the hotel is not a Four Seasons he will resign.
• The Jaguars are not interested in buying the stadium from the city.
• They hope to provide "market priced" food inside the stadium.

[tufsu1]

100% here. Unless the bill goes down dramatically, there better not be a repeat of Daily's Place.

that's likely to happen anyway

[Jax_Developer]

Some additional details from today's huddle, via this thread.

Congratulations Developer, here's your jail mention.

Comparison to Nashville's plans:



Overall phasing plan:



Stadium project timeline:



A "food district" concept for stadium dining:



Really bad picture because it's lifted from a video but this is the comparison on what other stadiums are doing:



A few other notes:

• Lamping notes they intentionally avoided endorsing or donating to any mayoral candidates to avoid a conflict, but have spoken to Mayor-elect Deegan twice since the election.
• Lamping says if the hotel is not a Four Seasons he will resign.
• The Jaguars are not interested in buying the stadium from the city.
• They hope to provide "market priced" food inside the stadium.

Lol, yay. I just think you gotta go all-in and connect the two hubs. Jacksonville could have luxury waterfront in its downtown.. which sounds like crazy talk with today's scene. Makes these other massive investments more worthwhile in the long run in my opinion.. but will hurt the checkbooks now.

[thelakelander]

What exactly is urban food?

[thelakelander]

No argument with Lamping's comment about walking a mile between downtown and the stadium district, which took out an adjacent neighborhood unrelated to downtown altogether. I'm really interested to see a site plan of the proposed mixed-use district surrounding the stadium. I eagerly await to see how A. Philip Randolph is treated. Hopefully, it is treated as a central element and front door to the district, as opposed to a back door.

[jaxlongtimer]

If the Jag's bought the stadium, they might lose all those "hidden" taxpayer subsidies for maintenance, paying rent below a mortgage payment, the City's favorable tax-free bonding, depreciation, etc.  More importantly, if the Jags owned the stadium, they would have to pay huge property taxes (10's of millions) that don't get paid now. 

Lastly, it would surely make it very difficult to relocate the franchise, even in 30 more years, as the team would have to continually maintain the stadium in first class condition and then be stuck with a white elephant if they moved away.

[fsu813]

What exactly is urban food?

And where does pizza get categorized?

Is it urban or international?

These are questions we need answered.

[acme54321]

The walk down Bay St is fine other than the fact there's nothing there of interest for half a mile between Liberty and APR.  Monroe/Adams is a shit show though between the jail and Sulzbacher.  Duval is practically an elevated expressway.  If the city really wants to connect DT to the Sports District they need to start by getting those stupid ramps out of the way once Sulzbacher moves and fix the street grid through there.  Then do something with Hogan's creek restoration.

[BridgeTroll]

What exactly is urban food?

And where does pizza get categorized?

Is it urban or international?

These are questions we need answered.

Urban…