Author Topic: Jaguars’ stadium, sports district could cost City of Jacksonville more than $1B  (Read 46484 times)

thelakelander

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What did he say?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Charles Hunter

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Is this it?
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/are-you-negotiating-city-khan-reacts-question-about-5050-split-jags-stadium-deal/7QAEYND3IFHUBKWPFEE65GBEU4/

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tofan: “How important is that 50/50 split? I mean, is there any wiggle room there in terms of the city?”

Khan: “Are you negotiating for the city?”

Stofan: “No, just asking -- "

Khan: “OK, so, end of question.”

thelakelander

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LOL....wow!
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

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^ As a citizen, we are each entitled to "negotiate" for our City.  Asking Khan the question is fair game just as having the press asking the mayor the same question. 

The answer should be "Thank you for the question and I understand your concerns.  Our negotiations will be complex as there are a lot of moving parts so it is premature to comment on the final structure of a deal.  However, we expect, in the end, we will reach an agreement that will be fair and acceptable to all parties at the table so we can keep the Jags in Jax and build something everyone can be proud of.  Next question, please..."

marcuscnelson

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Interesting thread from Casey Ayers about tonight's huddle. Some highlights:

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Lamping also said, “I assume that one of the things the city will want to negotiate is, ‘What are your future plans in regard to London?’” He described the value it has offered as he has in the past, but acknowledged that the gap in revenue may be largely addressed in the build.

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A few notes on the roof: the curvature is designed to force air currents in from the river and create flow for hotter air up to the roof. Lots of “that’s the theory” to those descriptions, but, well, that’s the theory.


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The temporary seating solution is really clever. 1,800 seats hide behind the east and west 400s. I believe those video screens are actually projected, although he only described them as “lightweight and flexible”. Another 6k can be flattened into SEZ+NEZ walls like a gymnasium.

COJ spends millions and takes weeks to put up and take down temporary seating for the college games at present. This, combined with all-digital signage for branding, make it pretty rapidly turnkey as a venue at little marginal expense.

I've seen a lot of talk about the concept of getting surrounding counties to help pay for the stadium since so many Jaguars fans reside there and not in Duval, and Lamping was asked about it:

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Lamping addressed a question about this, with the caveat that he isn’t a public official. He mentioned things like a sales surtax in the stadium district or hospitality tax could capture some of this but something more direct requiring a vote would seem unlikely to pass anywhere.

LOL....wow!

Mayor-Elect Deegan had a somewhat similar (if softer) response to a similar question.

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“I have had, already, a number of conversations with Shad Khan and with Mark Lamping. (Interim CFO) Mike Weinstein, as I said, has also been in contact with them. We’ve had good conversations, but look, I’m not even in office yet. These negotiations have not yet begun,” Deegan said.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Jax_Developer

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I've seen a lot of talk about the concept of getting surrounding counties to help pay for the stadium since so many Jaguars fans reside there and not in Duval, and Lamping was asked about it:

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Lamping addressed a question about this, with the caveat that he isn’t a public official. He mentioned things like a sales surtax in the stadium district or hospitality tax could capture some of this but something more direct requiring a vote would seem unlikely to pass anywhere.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/240015/price-of-a-beer-in-the-national-football-league-by-team/

So instead of $10 beers, it'll be like $15. lol :/

Charles Hunter

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The "air flow issue" is one that's been on my mind since first realizing there will be a full roof. My fear is that, without "air currents" the stadium will become a sauna.

My experience of living in Jacksonville for more than a few decades is that in hot months, the air is pretty stagnant. This includes about five home games (give or take one or two) No prevailing breezes, and the sea breeze doesn't come anywhere near the stadium. Do the stadium designers have any historic weather data for the stadium area to support their air-flow theories? I am willing to be that First Coast News, which is immediately adjacent to the stadium, has data from an onsite weather station going back decades. If only the (new) Mayor's Office had a connection to the weather department at FCN ...

We have stopped going to summer concerts at Daily's Place because it is an oven in the summer heat - and concerts start in the evening and continue into the night. I realize the geometry of Daily's is different from the stadium, in part because the stadium completely blocks the north face of Daily's, and the south side is blocked by the indoor practice field (do, or could, they open those large doors along Bay Street?), but the east-west sides are nearly completely open.

Steve

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The "air flow issue" is one that's been on my mind since first realizing there will be a full roof. My fear is that, without "air currents" the stadium will become a sauna.

My experience of living in Jacksonville for more than a few decades is that in hot months, the air is pretty stagnant. This includes about five home games (give or take one or two) No prevailing breezes, and the sea breeze doesn't come anywhere near the stadium. Do the stadium designers have any historic weather data for the stadium area to support their air-flow theories? I am willing to be that First Coast News, which is immediately adjacent to the stadium, has data from an onsite weather station going back decades. If only the (new) Mayor's Office had a connection to the weather department at FCN ...

We have stopped going to summer concerts at Daily's Place because it is an oven in the summer heat - and concerts start in the evening and continue into the night. I realize the geometry of Daily's is different from the stadium, in part because the stadium completely blocks the north face of Daily's, and the south side is blocked by the indoor practice field (do, or could, they open those large doors along Bay Street?), but the east-west sides are nearly completely open.

I mean, they did think of this. Did they get it right? Who knows - they'd likely have to build it.

That said, this has bene solved before. For example, the Lynch Building and Old Barnett Building are designed as a L and U shaped building, respectively. The idea is it forces air to circulate. It's certainly not air conditioning.

Additionally, the new renderings have seats removed in the corners, and my understanding was that was supposed to help with air flow.

I think we all agree we don't want a repeat of Daily's Place. The fans they added help, but it's still warm.

Captain Zissou

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Is this it?
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/are-you-negotiating-city-khan-reacts-question-about-5050-split-jags-stadium-deal/7QAEYND3IFHUBKWPFEE65GBEU4/

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tofan: “How important is that 50/50 split? I mean, is there any wiggle room there in terms of the city?”

Khan: “Are you negotiating for the city?”

Stofan: “No, just asking -- "

Khan: “OK, so, end of question.”

The same question was asked of Donna Deegan.  Her response was slightly more diplomatic, but she was clearly exasperated/annoyed by the question.  Not sure who is posing the question, but it seems like they've been doing it for some time and the respondents are not amused.

JaxJersey-licious

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I don't know if this was ever addressed but have engineers dealt with the issue of condensation building up on the new see-through roof given the desire to hold future NCAA tournament games there? So-Fi stadium has a similar style roof but because of the issue of water building up and potentially dripping down on the basketball court, So-Fi is not even being considered for a Final 4 destination.

marcuscnelson

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Is this it?
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/are-you-negotiating-city-khan-reacts-question-about-5050-split-jags-stadium-deal/7QAEYND3IFHUBKWPFEE65GBEU4/

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tofan: “How important is that 50/50 split? I mean, is there any wiggle room there in terms of the city?”

Khan: “Are you negotiating for the city?”

Stofan: “No, just asking -- "

Khan: “OK, so, end of question.”

The same question was asked of Donna Deegan.  Her response was slightly more diplomatic, but she was clearly exasperated/annoyed by the question.  Not sure who is posing the question, but it seems like they've been doing it for some time and the respondents are not amused.

I noted that earlier. At the end of the day, it does make sense that neither party to these negotiations wants to do that via the press, which as Deegan suggested benefits more from the conflict than from actually coming to a deal. Lot easier to do what will be necessary back-and-forth directly, especially since it seems both sides will have committed negotiators to come to a deal. Doesn't do anyone much good to establish red lines in the press right now.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Jax_Developer

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I played football in my past life (not NFL lol) and my experience is that there is that there are levels to stadium design beyond 99% of people's comprehension besides those who are in the stadium industry. Stadiums every decade have significant improvements, that start at the NFL level and trickle down over time.

Jags stadium being designed in the early 90's makes it one of the oldest in the NFL believe it or not. There have been so many improvements made over the decades that I can think of, I can't imagine how many there actually are. I played in college stadiums that were much better designed to be honest.. You can feel the difference in the field temp and the wind when you are on the field.

I'm pretty confident that this redesign incorporates many of these improvements and they are likely utilizing the shell more than anything. Whatever issues SOFI has will likely be reincarnated with this one. I don't think there's an insane lack of wind with the project either.. when you go that high, wind factors exponentially increase.

WarDamJagFan

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Is this it?
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/sports/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/are-you-negotiating-city-khan-reacts-question-about-5050-split-jags-stadium-deal/7QAEYND3IFHUBKWPFEE65GBEU4/

Quote
tofan: “How important is that 50/50 split? I mean, is there any wiggle room there in terms of the city?”

Khan: “Are you negotiating for the city?”

Stofan: “No, just asking -- "

Khan: “OK, so, end of question.”

If there's any reason for tax payers to take a moment to pause on this whole concept, this was it. The amount of condescension from Khan towards someone who's money Khan wants - aka taxpayer - was appalling. Would love for someone to address Lamping on this at the next public forum.

Fallen Buckeye

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I'm curious about how the roof would stand up to hurricane force winds. If the stadium is designed to create an updraft it would seem that those panels would become kites in a hurricane. Maybe that's a design feature though. A stadium that can uproot and relocate itself Wizard of Oz style. lol.

tufsu1

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I would not be at all surprised to see the roof panels go away as part of matching costs with funding realities. The main need is shade for fans. We can do without a Final 4, and Wrestlemania has been outside many times.