Gateway Jax Development at Union Street

[Steve]

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/may/22/dia-records-potential-downtown-project-could-be-a-4644-million-investment/

Seems like this could be a big one.

[Jagsdrew]

Definitely a big one and maybe they're seeing how the UF campus partnership develops too as there will be a huge need for housing. Feel like they may try and time up the development if that comes to fruition. Big if.

[Jax_Developer]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

[jcjohnpaint]

Insane ask! Wasn’t some of these parcels tied to other proposed projects?

[heights unknown]

Real big IMO. That area of DT is predominantly dead right now; would be a huge shot in the arm especially for that area of DT and DT as a whole.

[Captain Zissou]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

Well as long as that jail sits on Bay street, I don't know what chance we have of growing the tax base in the next 20 years anyway ammiriiigghhtt?

[fsu813]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

Well as long as that jail sits on Bay street, I don't know what chance we have of growing the tax base in the next 20 years anyway ammiriiigghhtt?

The automonous vehicles will serve as prisoner transport, as well. A few years from now, once AI progresses, the vehicles will be able to take a humanoid shape (think Optimus Prime) and serve as the actual prison guards. Final step: The first fully automated AI correctional facility in the world will be on Bay Street, eta 2029. #JAXLEADSTHEWAY

[jcjohnpaint]

This is the way!

[Jax_Developer]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

Well as long as that jail sits on Bay street, I don't know what chance we have of growing the tax base in the next 20 years anyway ammiriiigghhtt?

Backwards thinking got us here. Not surprised by your attitude towards my comments really.. makes perfect sense actually. You probably also think that the true shipyards (not the project) near DT add immense value to the surrounding area.

[marcuscnelson]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

I've had friends in NJ ask me before how we're managing to pay out this much in incentives for this many projects and frankly I don't totally get it either.

[Jax_Developer]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

I've had friends in NJ ask me before how we're managing to pay out this much in incentives for this many projects and frankly I don't totally get it either.

Completion grants are coming from the increased tax base that the REST of the city is bringing to the table. Or they have shifted money beyond my comprehension.

I don’t think I could look a city leader in the eye and say “For $135M, you’ll get $140M.. oh and over 20 years.” You have projects in other cities netting a 2-4x return on public dollars. Not here. We like the 1-1.1x zone a LOT.

REV grants are really simple. They are tomorrow’s dollars so today’s leaders don’t care. The leaders today don’t think about the impacts on future generations. Im not 60+, so I’ll never support this heinous use of existing & future city funds. I literally can’t think of another city getting ripped this bad on REV grants. Maybe my tunnel has narrowed but I really don’t think so. I’m fed up with the Septic Phase out program, streets, sidewalks etc. I’m tired of seeing people support this crap too when the entire urban core west of the St Johns continues to need help.

For these price tags, we could finance an entirely new DT.. basically St Johns Town Center.

[simms3]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

I've had friends in NJ ask me before how we're managing to pay out this much in incentives for this many projects and frankly I don't totally get it either.

Completion grants are coming from the increased tax base that the REST of the city is bringing to the table. Or they have shifted money beyond my comprehension.

I don’t think I could look a city leader in the eye and say “For $135M, you’ll get $140M.. oh and over 20 years.” You have projects in other cities netting a 2-4x return on public dollars. Not here. We like the 1-1.1x zone a LOT.

REV grants are really simple. They are tomorrow’s dollars so today’s leaders don’t care. The leaders today don’t think about the impacts on future generations. Im not 60+, so I’ll never support this heinous use of existing & future city funds. I literally can’t think of another city getting ripped this bad on REV grants. Maybe my tunnel has narrowed but I really don’t think so. I’m fed up with the Septic Phase out program, streets, sidewalks etc. I’m tired of seeing people support this crap too when the entire urban core west of the St Johns continues to need help.

For these price tags, we could finance an entirely new DT.. basically St Johns Town Center.

I'm with you...

[simms3]

I wish projects would be able to break ground much sooner.  If we had 25% of the projects that we have given these REV grants to substantially complete by now, we may not "need" to keep giving money away.

Unfortunately we give money to projects that promise to break ground within 2-3 years, and over the course of that 2-3 years of nothing happening, another 20 projects come along begging for money, for the same situation.

I don't have the real inside track, but it's astounding why it takes so long for a project to be designed/engineered and receive all the incentives to break ground 2+ years later.  Getting financing simply doesn't take that long, no matter how hard it is these days.

[Captain Zissou]

I don't have the real inside track, but it's astounding why it takes so long for a project to be designed/engineered and receive all the incentives to break ground 2+ years later.  Getting financing simply doesn't take that long, no matter how hard it is these days.

You do have to get the incentives locked in early i the process in order to develop the proforma and determine the feasibility of the project.  From that point on, you have to go through an extensive design process before financing.  In this market of continued escalation, you don't want to go to market for financing until the project is at GMP, which isn't possible until construction docs are nearly complete.  The Hardwick & the Related project were given too long a window to start construction, but other more complex projects (shipyards and one riverside) were able to break ground within about a year of their DIA agreement. I think the window between when incentives are granted and groundbreaking should be shortened, but it should vary based on size and complexity of the project.

[heights unknown]

$135M city package proposal with a $140M calculated total benefit. Not a very good return IMO.

I know we have another $100M (est.) in public revenue this year, but lets try not to remove the entire property tax base of DT for 20+ years…

I've had friends in NJ ask me before how we're managing to pay out this much in incentives for this many projects and frankly I don't totally get it either.

And I agree with your friends in NJ, and, we rarely get anything out of any of it. NADA, NOTHING.