Author Topic: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville  (Read 65494 times)

Ken_FSU

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2023, 10:52:25 AM »
It's nice to see some further specifics about what's being proposed.

Activating 18 dormant acres with 2,000 - 4,000 students and faculty members would be huge and would really do a good job building a connection between downtown and Springfield, and add a really cool anchor for the Emerald Trail.

UF, as much as I hate to say it, is widely considered to be a Top 10 public university in the nation and I think we'd draw students and eventually workers to the campus that wouldn't otherwise consider Jacksonville, further cementing our status as a major geographic player in these industries.

Million dollar question though, or $100 million question, that I don't trust any of the players involved to shoot straight on:

What is the relationship (from a program and funding perspective) between what's proposed here, and what was proposed in West Palm Beach. Living in Jax for 15 years, I've learned to be skeptical of coincidences. Is it merely a coincidence that the University of Florida was haggling with West Palm Beach on a similar campus that appears to have some degree of overlap, negotiations hit a snag over $50 million in public land, and - completely unrelatedly - Jacksonville comes along with 18 acres of land and $50 million in taxypayer dollars.

Would be delighted if both cities got a campus, with similar contributions from the state going to each.

But also very, very wary that this turns into Jax being used as a pawn against WPB, with state money only going to one campus.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 10:54:08 AM by Ken_FSU »

vicupstate

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2023, 11:25:21 AM »
Seems like the abandoned motel site that is across from this site, would be an obvious no-brainer to be included in this site. Obviously FCSJ will need to replace a lot of parking, maybe FBC's garages can do some of that.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 11:39:32 AM by vicupstate »
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Ken_FSU

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2023, 11:45:14 AM »
Just watched Becker's video detailing the 17-page PowerPoint deck that he was given.

If I was a betting man, I'd put my full bet on this deck being a virtual copy and paste from what was presented to West Palm Beach.

In other words, unless UF is planning to open virtually identical satellite campuses in West Palm Beach and Jacksonville - which sure seems like it would be a weird move - I believe what Curry is proposing would replace/compete with/attempt to poach the proposed WPB campus.

Here's the Palm Beach Post article announcing the UF campus in West Palm.

Note the language. "AI across the curriculum." Fintech, financial services, AI and cyber security.

$100 million pledged from the state for a $200 million+ campus.



Now, take a look at the slides about the Jacksonville campus.

AI across the curriculum. Fintech, financial services, AI, and cyber security programs.

And, for the kicker, $100 million noted in the Jacksonville slides as the "state support," even though the state hadn't been asked for a dime yet to build anything in Jax. And, we know that UF has the right to use those stand funds elsewhere if West Palm falls through.







GOTTA be a Jax vs. WPB political/funding battle, rather than Jax AND WPB.

If not, why the weird secrecy and the urgent rush to push city dollars into this thing.

Could be wrong, but occam's razor.

Just hope we don't end up with egg on our face and a $50 million hole in the coffers.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 11:52:48 AM by Ken_FSU »

marcuscnelson

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2023, 12:00:46 PM »
Seems like the abandoned motel site that is what (1 block, 2?) that is nearby would be an obvious no-brainer to be included in this site.  What is FCSJ using that property for now?

The abandoned motel, despite its acreage being shown on the map, does not appear to be included in the calculation of total acreage and is not highlighted as being part of the project. It's not owned by FSCJ, but by "Dozier Prestige Worldwide," who bought the block last October.

3/4 of the FSCJ parcels are currently parking lots, with one (Parcel 3) currently having buildings on it.

It's nice to see some further specifics about what's being proposed.

Activating 18 dormant acres with 2,000 - 4,000 students and faculty members would be huge and would really do a good job building a connection between downtown and Springfield, and add a really cool anchor for the Emerald Trail.

UF, as much as I hate to say it, is widely considered to be a Top 10 public university in the nation and I think we'd draw students and eventually workers to the campus that wouldn't otherwise consider Jacksonville, further cementing our status as a major geographic player in these industries.

Million dollar question though, or $100 million question, that I don't trust any of the players involved to shoot straight on:

What is the relationship (from a program and funding perspective) between what's proposed here, and what was proposed in West Palm Beach. Living in Jax for 15 years, I've learned to be skeptical of coincidences. Is it merely a coincidence that the University of Florida was haggling with West Palm Beach on a similar campus that appears to have some degree of overlap, negotiations hit a snag over $50 million in public land, and - completely unrelatedly - Jacksonville comes along with 18 acres of land and $50 million in taxypayer dollars.

Would be delighted if both cities got a campus, with similar contributions from the state going to each.

But also very, very wary that this turns into Jax being used as a pawn against WPB, with state money only going to one campus.



I don't think there's any disagreement that having 2-4k more people downtown is a good idea (although that does seem like a wide margin). I definitely have empathy for those concerned about how the city is ignoring all the universities that are actually based in town (UNF, JU, EWU) in order to scramble to hand tens of millions of dollars to another school. I'm curious what, if any, effort will be made to better connect this campus to Gainesville should it be built, or if they're really going to try and develop a completely separate campus environment.

But again, I'm concerned that we don't have the building blocks as a city to make this campus competitive vs what UF is comparing it to (Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley), which I suppose lends credence to the possibility that this is really a gambit to seal a deal with West Palm. There's also a broader question of whether the current and pending changes to UF and other schools by the state will keep UF itself competitive vs other states. You can herald AI all you want, if young people don't feel like they're going to be accepted in Florida they won't come.
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Houseboat Mike

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2023, 12:23:08 PM »
Well....at least Ben didn't land down on the proposed site in a helicopter. ;D This sounds a LOT like what happened here with Colts fever.

Ken_FSU

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2023, 12:29:43 PM »
^I wouldn’t be surprised at all if that Cambridge, Austin, Research Triangle slide was first built with West Palm in mind either. Sure doesn’t seem to fit here, and even though it looks good in a deck when you’re asking for taxpayer dollars, it’s wildly unrealistic from a local perspective.

And I’ve got the same empathy for UNF, FSCJ, EWC, etc. That said, I think this project - with the massive assumptions that it happens, and that the scope is similar to what’s proposed in the deck - extends beyond just education to align with a lot of other goals we have in the area. Building the downtown residential base. Creating urban infill. Providing a captive customer base for downtown businesses. Adding anchors to the Emerald Trail. Checking that prestigious post-graduate education box that firms look for when considering relocation to Jax. If $50 million in city contribution would truly yield a $150 million matching investment from the state and private donors, and result in thousands of new downtown students and residents, feels like one of the smarter investments we could make as a city in our downtown.

All that said, it’s all wrapped in the same secrecy and one-sided taxpayer agreements that have become the norm with this administration, so I don’t think our other educational institutions necessarily has anything to sweat about either. City Council debates should be fascinating on this one.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 12:31:30 PM by Ken_FSU »

Jax_Developer

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2023, 02:14:41 PM »
No matter how you spin it, Gainesville is nearby and like OP's have said it is widely regarded as a top 10 public college. Most big time colleges have Fortune 500 businesses at their doorsteps. To me, this is an effort to do a version of that across multiple grad campuses. The Miami & Space Coast metros are gaining huge momentum nationally. The idea might be to have both, IDK. Nonetheless JAX is the closest 'real' city to UF and they are smart if the timing works for them with FinTech and some automated manufacturing moving to town. Just hope the city doesn't fumble the bag.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2023, 10:24:27 PM »
Huh. Parcels 1, 2, and 3 are owned by FSCJ, Parcel 4 by JEA, and Parcel 5 (the Phase 2) by the city (currently the Singleton Senior Center). The plan is 18 acres total, ~14 of them in Phase 1. Surprisingly low-rise for how much money is being proposed here.

Personally, I get a bit nervous about the feasibility of all this looking at a slide trying to compare a UF Jacksonville graduate campus to Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley. Not to dump on us, but… we're not there.

Also the state support mentioned on this slide is half of what a state legislator has actually proposed. Seems like a bad sign.

^ Small corrections.  It's Research Triangle, not Charlotte.  And, I think the number on the slide is $100 million, double, not half, of Duggan's proposal of $50 million.  Doesn't take away from your points though.

Possible synergies with FSCJ might include a shared student union, some high tech labs, mentorships from graduate students, career counselling, faculty, etc.  FSCJ also has a nursing program, albeit on their north campus, that might get some spinoff benefits.  Nursing is also offered at JU and UNF who might share in same. Especially interesting would be if student and/or faculty housing was built in the area, something that FSCJ has already dabbled in on a small scale.

One big gap in the education scene in Jax over the years has been the lack of a wider range of graduate level programs.  If UF is offering such programs that do not overlap with what is already here, this might be complimentary to the existing schools.  And, there are many cities that host multiple higher level education programs and are able to see them all supported.  With the growth of the City and possibly attracting students from other areas that would not otherwise consider studying here, I don't necessarily think this would negatively impact the existing schools.  I know many schools also have programs where students overlap some of their undergraduate time with graduate studies so joint study program with FSCJ, UNF, JU and EWC might be in order.  These same school could also be feeder programs where their students don't have to leave the area to advance their education.

As I posted two days ago, I join in wondering if we are being played against West Palm Beach.  The proposals look to be close to identical in language and dollars.  The main hold up in WPB is a $50 million land donor wants the campus named for him and UF says that's not going to happen.  Without his land, the WPB deal may be dead on arrival.  Hence, a possible turn to Alternate #1, Jax.

Quote
But again, I'm concerned that we don't have the building blocks as a city to make this campus competitive vs what UF is comparing it to (Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley), which I suppose lends credence to the possibility that this is really a gambit to seal a deal with West Palm. There's also a broader question of whether the current and pending changes to UF and other schools by the state will keep UF itself competitive vs other states. You can herald AI all you want, if young people don't feel like they're going to be accepted in Florida they won't come.

Ditto on these concerns. 

To add, I attended a university with a large suite of grad programs and came to realize most grad students don't live like undergrads.  Aside from being older (more mature  ;D?), many have already worked before returning to grad school and/or are married, often with kids.  In today's world, the better question is how virtual teaching would impact a physical campus.  I have a cousin who teaches grad courses for a major state university. She said she works from home, teaching virtually, and just graduated a masters student she only met 3 times during his studies.

Zac T

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2023, 08:11:02 AM »
According to the Daily Record, the fairgrounds is also under consideration as a possible location.

Quote
Florida House Rep. Wyman Duggan says at least two Downtown sites are being considered for the University of Florida’s proposed Health and Financial Technology Graduate Education Center in Jacksonville.

According to Duggan, people close to the project say UF is reviewing land that’s part of Florida State College at Jacksonville’s Downtown Campus and the fairgrounds near TIAA Bank Field.

...

Iguana Investments Florida LLC, the economic development company controlled by Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan, entered into an agreement in April 2022 with the nonprofit Greater Jacksonville Agricultural Fair Association to buy the 14.1-acre fairgrounds at 510 Fairgrounds Place in Downtown’s Sports and Entertainment District near TIAA Bank Field.

When asked Feb. 21 if the Jaguars/Iguana and UF have been talking about the fairgrounds property, a spokesperson said in an email:

“The Jacksonville Jaguars support the concept of a graduate-level education center being located in downtown Jacksonville, regardless of its location. That is a decision that will ultimately be made by the University of Florida.”

...

According to Duggan, the center as proposed would house a combined 800 students, faculty and staff.

He said he has heard officials estimate 2,000 to 4,000 people could populate the center “when it’s fully built-out and fully staffed up.”

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/feb/22/uf-considering-downtown-fscj-fairgrounds-property-for-proposed-jacksonville-graduate-center/

thelakelander

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2023, 12:27:06 PM »
It's a portion of FSCJ's campus or bust. The fairgrounds doesn't really make any sense.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2023, 08:01:46 PM »
UF announced this morning that they are "pausing" efforts to build a graduate campus in West Palm Beach.

It would seem that this leaves Jacksonville with an opening to receive the $100 million in state funding for the proposed graduate campus here, and Nate Monroe speculates as such.
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thelakelander

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Re: UF President Ben Sasse to announce university's new plans in Jacksonville
« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2023, 09:16:20 PM »
Quote
UF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/

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fsu813

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Quote
UF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/



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marcuscnelson

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Quote
UF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/

I think it's very interesting how much investment was already springing up around the proposed WPB campus. Especially looking at that "transit village" planned around the Tri-Rail station there. With the Rosa Parks transit hub across State St from the campus, and the U2C TOD study focusing so much development around there, I wonder if any local developers will take advantage of that.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Charles Hunter

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Last night (Tuesday) ActionNewsJax touched on the "bargaining chip" angle as part of a report on the potential UF-Jax campus.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/million-more-proposed-uf-campus-jacksonville/022ba170-67a4-46f9-942b-37a68b558b14/