Author Topic: Ford Plant likely coming down soon  (Read 9494 times)

jaxjags

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2022, 03:17:59 PM »
Many of these home in DT Charleston become Airbnb. Thus, they are a business investment. A lot of different rules apply to a rental investment compared to a personal home purchase and $1.4 million may be an excellent investment. I saw an article awhile back that stated the majority of homes the historic DT were short term rentals. The article stated that the remaining full-time residents were not pleased with the situation. I am not against restoring historic home. I am just saying DT Charleston is not DT Jacksonville and this may not be a good comparison.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2022, 09:07:57 PM »
^ LOL.  No one is going to confuse downtown Charleston with our downtown.

While are histories vary, we too have a history.  Unlike Charleston, we have thrown away many (most?) remnants of it.  Further, we have decimated our downtown with vacant lots, cold street facing buildings with no retail interaction and little to do for tourists including not exploiting our waterfront fully.

I note too, on my last visit to Charleston, there were no high rise buildings or oversized cookie cutter apartment/condo buildings crowding their downtown waterfront thus giving the city a relatable and inviting "old town" scale.  They also have lots of public waterfront spaces and interior parks (even a lake!).

Jax leaders will find it hard to believe a city can thrive without the investment of a billionaire NFL owner, 40+ story buildings in their riverfront parks, a Four Seasons, the tearing down of historic structures, etc. but, rather, creating a city more like that of over 200 years ago than today.

Maybe if we followed Charleston's lead more, we could have the economic drivers to support projects like that covered in the article with, notably, NO city incentives, apparently.  How refreshing...

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2022, 11:29:31 AM »
Ford plant is now officially a goner. 

Lots of doublespeak by Council members.  Saying it will bring jobs to the Eastside.  Unless the proposed shipyard company offers lots of training (never mentioned in discussion it appears), I wonder how many Eastsiders will have the prerequisite skills that are likely highly specialized to perform the necessary jobs.  And, if they do get what are likely better paying jobs, how many will remain in the Eastside.

Without a comprehensive plan of training and community support, I think this is about as useful to the Eastside economy as the Jaguars have been over the last 25+ years.  In fact, it may hold the Eastside back as who wants to live next door to a major shipyard.

I can't believe how many people swallow this Koolaid.  Restoring the facility would have been the real asset and economic driver for the Eastside with jobs that workers might actually want to live in proximity to.

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The Jacksonville City Council will allow the owner of the historic former Ford Motor Co. factory in Talleyrand to demolish the 97-year-old riverfront landmark for a possible maritime industrial redevelopment project.

The Council’s 17-0 vote overruled a June 9 order by the Jacksonville Historic Preservation Commission that denied Amkin Hill Street LLC a certificate of appropriateness to raze the structure at 1900 Wambolt St., which was an assembly plant for the Model T and Model A that city historic preservation staff said automaker Henry Ford helped plan and operate.

Amkin, controlled by Miami-based investor Ramon Llorens, bought the property in February 2015. Llorens told the Council Land Use and Zoning Committee on Oct. 4 that he is negotiating with a U.S.-based shipyard owner that is considering bringing 300 jobs to the site...

....“Once this structure is down, you will see opportunities. You’ll see jobs created for the Northside of town and the Eastside of Jacksonville,” Gaffney said.

Council member Nick Howland said before the 7-0 LUZ Committee vote to allow the demolition that the jobs could help the Eastside’s unemployment rate of 12.8%.

“If this creates jobs … that outweighs, to me, what is more of a historical and an emotional appeal,” he said. “It’s a tough one.”....

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/council-approves-demolition-request-for-historic-ford-motor-co-plant

Ken_FSU

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2022, 02:23:25 PM »
“Once this structure is down, you will see opportunities."

How's that working out for LaVilla?

Ford on Bay?

How's that 140-story skyscraper coming along once we knocked down that pesky Greyhound Station?

In our rush to knock down the Landing, under the auspices that having a clean state would attract more interest from private developers, how many responses did we get for the RFP?

Definition of insanity.

thelakelander

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2022, 02:56:02 PM »
Unfortunately, I knew the plant would come down months ago and it has nothing to do with its history or redevelopment opportunity. Is some of it salvageable? Yes, of course it is. Does any of that matter locally? Nope! Heck, half of the people talking about the plant probably don't even know that there are multiple buildings out there, not just the big warehouse over the river. But everything will come down. Boiler house and all.



Council is full of people that aren't remotely professionally qualified to make some of the decisions that bubble up to them. George Washington's Mount Vernon would come down 17-0 for a Dollar General and the jobs it creates if the property owner wanted to raze it for a quick buck in Jacksonville. We're not dealing with logic on many of these decisions, so knowing that on the front end while spare you the heartache and grief on the backend.

Now I do believe if this city really wanted to save the building and many others, it would have never let the ownership engage in demolition by neglect for decades. We're our worst enemy on some of these issues. Unfortunately, its built into our political structure, so the Ford plant's demise won't be the last.

Moving on, of interesting note, the site could likely go back to a historic use that predates Henry Ford's time in town....if the shipyard next door does expand. However, at this point, we don't even know if there is a real deal to sell the property or if anything will happen, other than the site being used as an outdoor storage yard for broken down industrial equipment, vehicles, shipping containers, etc. If it does, then what are we doing to ensure that the project benefits nearby residents? Based on precedence.....likely nothing. Nevertheless, that's where focus moving forward should be with the site.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2022, 02:59:00 PM by thelakelander »
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2022, 04:03:46 PM »
“Once this structure is down, you will see opportunities."

How's that working out for LaVilla?

Ford on Bay?

How's that 140-story skyscraper coming along once we knocked down that pesky Greyhound Station?

In our rush to knock down the Landing, under the auspices that having a clean state would attract more interest from private developers, how many responses did we get for the RFP?

Definition of insanity.

Yeah, if anything I don't see why one wouldn't include some kind of guarantee of this shipyard partner actually existing and being ready to move ahead before going with demolition, especially when this exact developer has already put one over on the city before. Frankly embarrassing that Gaffney is going for this again, as if bidders are waiting in the wings to see if the building's gone before they magically appear offering prosperity.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2022, 08:07:29 PM »
I'm not surprised one bit. Logic goes out the door when these types of issues are debated by council. One council member said the building reminded her of the Surfside condo collapse  and that was a large part of her reasoning. When those types of perspectives are on the table, all the things you guys are talking about, go right out of the door.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2022, 09:33:49 PM »
I'm not surprised one bit. Logic goes out the door when these types of issues are debated by council. One council member said the building reminded her of the Surfside condo collapse  and that was a large part of her reasoning. When those types of perspectives are on the table, all the things you guys are talking about, go right out of the door.

Overall (there are a very few exceptions), I think we have one of the least effective and disappointing (to put it kindly) City Councils in a long time due to a lack of backbone, vision, forward thinking, creativity, moral principles, civic responsibility, respect for differing points of view, energy, passion, inquisitiveness, being fully and legitimately informed and, maybe, just plain intellect.

This is compounded by corruption due to donor monies, laziness, selfishness, excessive ambition, over-inflated egos, partisanship, conflicts of interests, cliques and general submissiveness to the mayor and special interests.

All this begets a collective City Council that rubber stamps developer (and billionaire NFL owner) exceptions and giveaways along with terrible business and financial deals while basic City needs such as parks, roads, traffic control, garbage collection, social needs, urban renewal, resiliency, reduction in crime, environment, historic preservation and so much more gets unmet or mismanaged.

In the end, our voters (or lack thereof) get a big part of the blame, being sucked in by false TV ads and failing to fully do their due diligence on the candidates or to more actively participate in the electoral process.  This behavior also tends to discourage more competent candidates from entering the arena.  Tim Baker's nasty campaign MO has also succeeded in running off better candidates in my opinion and it shows.

marcuscnelson

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2022, 11:09:59 PM »
Not to delve too far into this rabbit hole, but the issue overall comes down to that if you're one person who wants to run for office in this city, you (generally, not always) have to be either willing to sell out to enough special interests to raise the low six-figures needed to put up a competitive race, or already come from wealth (either through business, family, or somehow the nonprofit sector) that you can afford to pour into your campaign. All while having to go out and gather support in a city where so few care and deal with the vitriol from your opponents.

And if you do win, then what? You're one out of nineteen people, eighteen of whom are the opposite of you, and odds are the mayor won't stick their neck out for you, and the legislative delegation will ignore you, and your constituents will either not show up or the ones who do would rather you did as little as possible. That's a daunting prospect to leave your normal life for.

So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2022, 11:46:40 PM »
^To add to your comments, we also now have interventions from state and national politicos in our local races.  How many Republican candidates locally are seeking endorsements from the likes of DeSantis, even in supposedly non-partisan races?  How much out of town money is financing local races? Lots.  So a local "independent" is also up against party machines and money that are offered in return for kissing their rings.

vicupstate

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2022, 08:28:25 AM »
JAX is in a continuous cycle of ineffective leadership and the only thing that will change it would be a citizen lead charter amendment. Non-partisan Ranked-Choice elections would probably go over if it went to a vote. Taking away term limits at least for Mayor would help too, albeit harder to get approved. 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

Charles Hunter

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2022, 09:02:37 AM »
To get Ranked Choice Voting in Florida, you would have to repeal part of (or all) DeSantis' law establishing the Voter Cops.
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TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill that creates a police force dedicated to pursuing voter fraud and other election crimes, but that's not all it does.

The bill ... also eliminates ranked-choice voting for all elections in Florida.

Senate Bill 524 specifically said it was "prohibiting the use of ranked-choice voting to determine election or nomination to elective office; voiding existing or future local ordinances authorizing the use of ranked choice voting."

vicupstate

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2022, 11:15:08 AM »
To get Ranked Choice Voting in Florida, you would have to repeal part of (or all) DeSantis' law establishing the Voter Cops.
Quote
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill that creates a police force dedicated to pursuing voter fraud and other election crimes, but that's not all it does.

The bill ... also eliminates ranked-choice voting for all elections in Florida.

Senate Bill 524 specifically said it was "prohibiting the use of ranked-choice voting to determine election or nomination to elective office; voiding existing or future local ordinances authorizing the use of ranked choice voting."

Didn't know that. It makes perfect sense he would be against it. Anything that takes the venom out of politics he would be against.

 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln