Author Topic: Ford Plant likely coming down soon  (Read 9458 times)

thelakelander

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Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« on: October 04, 2022, 07:59:41 PM »
I'm currently listening to the LUZ meeting, regarding the appeal of a final order of the JHPC denying Amkin Hill Street LLC to demolish the Ford Plant. The LUZ is going to grant the appeal. Enjoy the Ford Plant while its still with us. It will be gone soon.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2022, 08:01:09 PM »
Once it comes down, the owner has stated that it will likely be replaced with an expansion of the adjacent shipyard and 300 new jobs.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2022, 08:05:34 PM »
Appeal approved 7-0 by LUZ.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2022, 09:12:56 PM »
Unfortunate. At the same time though, it seems the place was falling apart and we weren't ready to invest in keeping it around. At least it'll be something instead of another grass lot.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

fsu813

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2022, 09:56:59 PM »
A significant factor in the decision was the specific location of the property. That's a tough location to convince anyone to spend gigantic dollars on an unconventional project. And absence of that, history/character isn't as persuasive as jobs to most on council.

thelakelander

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2022, 10:58:20 PM »
Its a site and building that millions of public money will need to be invested in to save. This city has never shown the will to make such a public private partnership happen with the property. The landlord is also the same group that demolished the Greyhound station for the surface parking lot that remains today, so I don't necessarily have high hopes for the future of the land or promise of jobs either. I'll wait to more information comes out on that one.

Regardless of that, I do believe that a partial demolition could have been a potentially feasible option. We're so used to throwing the baby out with the bathwater that it was never really debated or explored, outside of a few public speakers like Bill Bishop and Alan Bliss mentioning it. However, I'd say the worst part of the meeting was listening to council members talk preservation and engineering. Whoa were some of them completely talking out of their league! I think I got a few extra grey hairs listening through some of the wacky and highly questionable assumptions made.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2022, 11:02:29 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2022, 11:11:21 PM »
^ Walt Disney's Imagineering people couldn't bring a creative bone to our City Council, Mayor and agency heads if they tried.  Hate to say it, but it's a lost cause with the current crop of City leaders.  Not one can think beyond their next election or appointment.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 03:21:03 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Tacachale

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2022, 05:17:24 AM »
Its a site and building that millions of public money will need to be invested in to save. This city has never shown the will to make such a public private partnership happen with the property. The landlord is also the same group that demolished the Greyhound station for the surface parking lot that remains today, so I don't necessarily have high hopes for the future of the land or promise of jobs either. I'll wait to more information comes out on that one.

Regardless of that, I do believe that a partial demolition could have been a potentially feasible option. We're so used to throwing the baby out with the bathwater that it was never really debated or explored, outside of a few public speakers like Bill Bishop and Alan Bliss mentioning it. However, I'd say the worst part of the meeting was listening to council members talk preservation and engineering. Whoa were some of them completely talking out of their league! I think I got a few extra grey hairs listening through some of the wacky and highly questionable assumptions made.

Lol, what were some of the things they said?
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thelakelander

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2022, 08:31:44 AM »
I've tried to wash my brain of the remembering most of the discussion lol. Some random things include:

- Asking staff dumb questions that they already knew the answer too, like... did staff hire a structural engineer to evaluate the building as a part of their landmarking process? That's not staff's role and if it were, these same council people would have taken that out of the budget years ago.

- Making points based on perspectives that denying demo approval means the building will sit there and fall into the river if preservationist can't get the owner to care. In reality, you don't need someone involved in demolition by neglect to care. There are ways around that (i.e. Bostwick Building or providing public incentives to make various redevelopment projects feasible).

- Once its demo'd for preservation's sake, they can save some old bricks and sprinkle them around the redeveloped site.

- They want to avoid the Surfside Condo collapse scenario.

- If the city really cared about saving the building, it would have landmarked it (as opposed to the property owner).

- Taking the property owner's structural report as truth and running with it because that's all they claim they had to make a decision on it.

Overall, the decision to approve demo appeal was not surprising, as this is a city stacked with a council that's not really going to go out and opposed a property owner's wishes to do whatever they want with their property. However, some of the reasons presented illustrated how very uneducated our elected representatives are in these matters and why they probably should not have the ability to have final say on some things. Ultimately, without better representation or some policies to protect our community and officials from themselves, we'll continue struggle with these types of issues.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2022, 08:36:29 AM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2022, 06:36:02 PM »
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

MusicMan

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2022, 08:04:24 PM »
At some point in the not too distant future there won't be any cool old buildings left, so we will no longer have to worry about more of this type of thing happening.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2022, 09:48:18 PM »
New slogan for Jacksonville:

"America's most developer friendly city... raid the City treasury, get exceptions to our zoning rules just for asking, destroy our historic character, take away our green spaces, submit your uninspired and cheap-to-build architectural designs, build wherever you want with whatever you want... we just don't care as long as you spend your dollars here.*"

*...and donate handsomely to the campaigns of our elected officials.

vicupstate

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2022, 08:30:27 AM »
Newest example of a very dilapidated home getting a new lease on life in DT Charleston.

$651k purchase price, $750k in renovation for a 1428 SF house. Almost $1,000 per sf invested when completed. Lot is less than 1/10th of an acre. 

https://www.postandcourier.com/features/run-down-19th-century-charleston-house-sells-for-650k-to-be-saved-instead-of-razed/article_460e075c-7b0c-11ec-b4ca-0be39383f07a.html

« Last Edit: October 10, 2022, 08:36:53 AM by vicupstate »
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2022, 12:58:50 PM »
Newest example of a very dilapidated home getting a new lease on life in DT Charleston.

$651k purchase price, $750k in renovation for a 1428 SF house. Almost $1,000 per sf invested when completed. Lot is less than 1/10th of an acre. 

https://www.postandcourier.com/features/run-down-19th-century-charleston-house-sells-for-650k-to-be-saved-instead-of-razed/article_460e075c-7b0c-11ec-b4ca-0be39383f07a.html

Quotes below (emphasis added) from the article that you will never see from Jacksonville local officials!  What a difference in attitudes.

Quote
....“The consulting engineer was pretty accurate,” Glaws said. “This one is in pretty bad shape, but they already knew what condition the house was in, so why not ask them for help? Any house can be salvaged.”...

....“Our historic building stock is highly unique and irreplicable, and we commend the developer for taking on this project to save the structure,” Minnigan said....

....Asked why he bought something in such bad shape, Glaws said, “If done correctly, you can make a rehab like this make sense. You can make it financially viable. It’s expensive to do, but there is an investment calculus to doing the project yourself.”

“In localities other than Charleston without an ingrained preservation ethic, it might get knocked down pretty easily,” Glaws said.

He knows the task of breathing new life into it will be exhaustive.

“But,” Glaws said, “it’s rewarding in and of itself.  It’s the preservation of a cultural resource.”

In a lighthearted note, he pointed to the sign placed on the building to indicate it’s a danger to go inside and he noted his business sign next to it.

“The nasty red X means everything is not OK,” Glaws said. “The sign with the white lettering means everything is going to be alright.”

marcuscnelson

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Re: Ford Plant likely coming down soon
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2022, 01:23:08 PM »
I, uh… feel like it's not exactly a brilliant example of success to say that a small three-bedroom house that will have a compromised floorplan due to its design is going to cost $1.4 million when all is said and done. Anything can technically be salvaged, but the cost-benefit analysis genuinely panning out like this is rare, and I seriously doubt it does so here. Sure, the builder might feel it's worth the sentimental value to save it no matter the cost, but that's not the same as it genuinely being worth the cost.

Let me be clear here, I'm not saying they're wrong to save the building, I'm saying that they should be honest that doing so is about the reward of the building being there and not the value of the building itself. Saving the Ford plant would have been because we wanted to have the Ford plant, not because it's technically "worth it" to have the Ford plant.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey