Author Topic: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week  (Read 5338 times)

Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2021, 08:53:12 PM »
This looks kind of different than the initial rendering introduced a few months ago. What did they change?

With the structures included in the legislation, they've changed almost nothing.

I think the Jags - like they have with many other steps throughout this newest Shipyards process - have taken the criticism to heart and stripped a lot of the "shinier" and optional elements out of the renders they're presenting to the city and DDRB for approval and trying to play it a little straighter to avoid bait and switch accusations.

New renders are virtually identical to the old renders, minus about five post-production passes.








pierre

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2021, 09:27:34 PM »
Do the buildings intentionally look like cruise ships?

Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2021, 09:49:44 PM »
Do the buildings intentionally look like cruise ships?

Yep.

A little on-the-nose, but Khan and Lamping have favored this boat-like design language for the Shipyards going all the way back to their original Shipyards pitch in 2016.

MusicMan

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2021, 10:14:00 PM »
very expensive luxury hotel in this location......  WTF

jaxoNOLE

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2021, 10:43:02 PM »
I've got to assume an entertainment- oriented flavor of Lot J gets resurrected sooner rather than later.  No way Khan envisions the 4 Seasons as a standalone project. And I can't imagine him banking on the Berkman development to be the attraction.

It could be a savvy move, with the city already committed to the 4 seasons, to say hey, we need Lot J 2.0 to make it viable long term. They'll have super majority support for a generous deal as long as they keep it conventional.

acme54321

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2021, 11:28:02 PM »
I really don't get how anyone thinks that this is economically viable sitting out there by itself.  Either the council knows more than it seems about the long term plans out there or.... I don't even know.

Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2021, 12:17:33 AM »
^Long term plan isn't a closely guarded secret.

A new "Heroes Park" at the western Shipyards, potentially housing the USS Orleck, Fire Museum, and a relocated Veterans Wall, funded largely by the $13 million we have set away for Shipyards remediation.

MOSH 2.0 with its own greenspace beside it, funded through the $20 million in city contributions over the next two years, coupled with their own capital campaign.

More greenspace to the east of that, with residential bordering that park as part of the Jags Phase II Shipyards plan. Likely to be funded by the $100 million slush fund for parks in the CIP.

A Baptist Orthopedic center beside that, followed by the six-story office tower for the Jags & their affiliates, the future marina building, and the Four Seasons. Council will pass the Phase I spend tomorrow night, possibly unanimously.

And an upgraded and restored Met Park to the east of that, funded by guarantees in the Four Seasons deal.

To the north, the Jags and City are going to be breaking ground on a $120 million practice facility with public amenities, funded in this year's CIP, and the two sides are working closely on a plan to activate the Daily's Place flex field hundreds of days a year.

Not a bad stretch of development, and more importantly, money's set aside for most of it.

You'd hope that it would be enough to drive some additional private development as well.

Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

RISE's development is under construction.

There's no universe where we don't build/upgrade our way to a modern new NFL stadium.

And - perhaps largest of all - there's just too much smoke to not think that Shad Khan's end game doesn't involve a casino at the current Fairgrounds site.

In a city growing as rapidly as Jacksonville, with a hole in the downtown luxury hotel market, and a demonstrable track record of losing room nights to Amelia Island every time there's a big event in town because downtown hotels can't compete with the Ritz, I'm not terribly worried about a small-ish Four Seasons - priced closer to $400 a night than $600 - being able to maintain the roughly ~50% occupancy it will need to hit in the coming years to operate in the black after accounting for the REV and completion grants.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2021, 09:58:26 AM »
A Baptist Orthopedic center beside that, followed by the six-story office tower for the Jags & their affiliates, the future marina building, and the Four Seasons. Council will pass the Phase I spend tomorrow night, possibly unanimously.

The Jaguars have publicly stated that Phase II of the shipyards development will have a 45,000 sqft medical facility, 15,000 sqft of retail uses, structured parking, and possibly residential.  Phase I of the shipyards has 4 different dining options built in, so that should generate some traffic around the area.  The current Lot X or the area to the east needs to be more than just green space to bridge the Shipyards activity to APR.

thelakelander

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2021, 12:04:12 PM »
^They are clustering these retail/dining oriented uses within the project along the riverfront. With MOSH moving next door, which will also have a dining component, this will quickly become a new node within the Sports and Entertainment District. Depending on how the riverfront is designed, there is an opportunity to tie the places along A. Philip Randolph into the scene, thus potentially creating a walkable corridor from the heart of the Eastside (APR and 1st Street) to the riverfront.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2021, 09:56:53 PM »
Unanimous.

17-0.

blizz01

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2021, 10:36:28 PM »
Includes a spa, correct?  Assuming so, would that be the only downtown offering?

heights unknown

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2021, 12:04:49 AM »
Check out the comparisons and parallels of Nashville's "Four Seasons" and Jacksonville's; Nashville's will be a 40 story tower overlooking a bustling downtown; and Jacksonville's Four Seasons will be............oh well, you be the judge after reading this article.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/four-seasons-in-2-cities-jacksonville-and-nashville-on-different-tracks-for-luxury-hotel/ar-AAPlcdB?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

I mean there's no comparison between downtown Nashville and Jacksonville from a visitors perspective. Nashville has NFL, NHL, MLS and NCAA teams + one of the top nightlife destinations in the country + ample daytime activities for family's + walkability + google fiber.

Downtown Jacksonville has virtually nothing to keep people in the core for an entire day. Sure you could tailgate, go to a game and then a bar afterwards, but it's all super disconnected and inconvenient for visitors. As a Jags fan it pains me to say this, but I think the Titans have one of the best stadium locations in the League. It's so easy to just walk across the pedestrian bridge to the stadium before the game and back into downtown afterwards. We've had a blast every time we've gone there for NFL and NHL because there's just so much to do in such close proximity to the Arena and stadium during the day and night.
Wow. I'm insanely and angrily (at our Leaders) jealous.
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Captain Zissou

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #27 on: October 13, 2021, 10:19:38 AM »
Includes a spa, correct?  Assuming so, would that be the only downtown offering?
Yes.  There is a large 1st floor spa in the plans.

tufsu1

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2021, 04:30:20 PM »
I think the Jags - like they have with many other steps throughout this newest Shipyards process - have taken the criticism to heart and stripped a lot of the "shinier" and optional elements out of the renders they're presenting to the city and DDRB for approval and trying to play it a little straighter to avoid bait and switch accusations.

they have avoided DDRB in the past - specifically with the flex field and amphitheater - that's how the designs were allowed to radically change

MusicMan

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2021, 08:47:17 AM »
At what point do they introduce the idea of moving the jail into this equation?

What would that cost? What friend of Lenny would get a sweetheart deal on that build out?