Bread & Board Provisions now open in downtown Northbank

[thelakelander]

I added the ones that are already under construction and/or have recently received permits to begin construction. Should be at least 880 units underway by the end of the year.

[fieldafm]

1800+

That's ambitious, hope they all get finished. I definitely like the fact that it's spread around and involves several different groups/developers.
It's also a lot to keep track of.

How many have begun construction or had a ground breaking?

Frankly, that's not very ambitious. Many of those aren't close to breaking ground. Even if all of those units come online, the larger boundary of Downtown will still be less dense than Orange Park.  DT Jax is still very much a vertical suburb made up mostly of daytime workers... however there are less of those daytime inhabitants than there were 30 years ago.  While, save for the last 15 months, the daytime population was higher on Jan 2020 than it was on Jan 2010... its still a ways off from the peak around 1994/1995, when most of the last home-grown corp headquarters moved to the suburbs or different cities all together.  TIAA Bank, Vystar and the Fidelity companies have helped... but there were less employees in the TIAA Bank building on Jan 1, 2020 than there were when it was the ATT&T Building on Jan 1, 1990.  The old American Heritage Life Building recovered with the Vystar acquisition, but the old First Union building is virtually empty... as is the old Atlantic National Bank Building across the street. 

For comparison, there are over 2,300 units CURRENTLY under construction in DT Orlando at the moment.

I'm trying to compare the crazy build out in SanMarco/SouthBank (about 1900 units )

That's not a crazy number. Once filled up, there would still be PLENTY of room for additional absorption. Those broader three submarkets are less dense than Riverside. And every one of those submarkets have easy interstate highway access to the major employment centers in Jacksonville- Southpoint, Town Center and to a lesser extent (in terms of employee count), Downtown.    Even if you took the Southbank's boundary and swallowed up everything up to San Marco Square and carved out a little slice to include the Phillips Highway apartments... that's a lower population density than Downtown Sarasota, which has no interstate highway access and has less office workers.  A bit of an oranges to tangerine comparison, but it makes the point. 

[heights unknown]

1800+

That's ambitious, hope they all get finished. I definitely like the fact that it's spread around and involves several different groups/developers.
It's also a lot to keep track of.

How many have begun construction or had a ground breaking?

Frankly, that's not very ambitious. Many of those aren't close to breaking ground. Even if all of those units come online, the larger boundary of Downtown will still be less dense than Orange Park. 

For comparison, there are over 2,300 units CURRENTLY under construction in DT Orlando at the moment.

I'm trying to compare the crazy build out in SanMarco/SouthBank (about 1900 units )

That's not a crazy number. Once filled up, there would still be PLENTY of room for additional absorption. Those broader three submarkets are less dense than Riverside. And every one of those submarkets have easy interstate highway access to the major employment centers in Jacksonville- Southpoint, Town Center and to a lesser extent (in terms of employee count), Downtown.    Even if you took the Southbank's boundary and swallowed up everything up to San Marco Square and carved out a little slice to include the Phillips Highway apartments... that's a lower population density than Downtown Sarasota, which has no interstate highway access and has less office workers.  A bit of an oranges to tangerine comparison, but it makes the point. 

Not to disagree with you because I don't, but yes, it's not ambitious compared to say Orlando, or even other major Florida cities, but it's ambitious for Jacksonville in which 10 to 20 years ago nothing was going on...AT ALL.

[thelakelander]

It's something to keep in mind when comparing to perceived peer communities. If there are places you think are ahead of DT in terms of vibrancy, density, height, population, etc., even with the projects underway and proposed locally, that gulf is still widening. So hopefully, no resting on our laurels here. We still have lots of work to do.

[Zac T]

They're currently building an apartment building in DT Orlando with 1,000 units just in the one building so yeah we have a long way to go

[Zac T]

This article seemed relevant. I wish they'd break it up by individual neighborhoods like the Northbank, LaVilla, Brooklyn, etc. I feel like 10,000 residents in each downtown district would mean a lot more than 10,000 residents spanning the entire 4 square mile area from the sports complex to Brooklyn. Durkeeville isn't even 2 square miles and has over 10k residents

It wasn’t that long ago that there were very few residents – and a limited number of places available to rent – in Jacksonville’s urban core.

But these days both the number of downtown residents and the number of apartment units are trending upward.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/08/26/downtown-apartments-and-residents-both-growing.html

[MusicMan]

1800 completed units seems pretty ambitious for "xaJ"

[Ken_FSU]

Has now been closed for one month.

A “two to three week” floor repair has turned into a social media post saying “closed throughout the summer.”

Doesn’t look like any work is actively taking place.

I sure hope we don’t lose this one too.

[Joey Mackey]

^That would be devastating. It’s one of the few (the other being bellwether) actual nice lunch places that we take out of town people to for work.

[Ken_FSU]

^It’s one of the few (the other being bellwether) actual nice lunch places that we take out of town people to for work.

Same. When taking clients and out of town coworkers out for lunch, we used to rotate between Cowford, Black Sheep, Olio, Candy Apple, Bellwether, and later Bread & Board. When it was just grabbing a quick lunch with the team, it was Jumpin Jax, or Magnificat, or Zodiak Grill, or Burrito Gallery. All gone, except Belli. Kinda wild that so much damage has been done in recent years that it’ll be a win for the mayor to get us back to the booming 2019s by end of first term.

[thelakelander]

^We need more people in the Northbank. The 3Cs are very important. Blowing up the Landing was a huge mistake, as it still drew more people into that portion of the Northbank than anyone else. COVID and companies like VyStar allowing their employees to not be in the office everyday also doesn't help. Everyone suffers with less foot traffic. Its a new day and downtown Jax will have to adapt to the current and future market conditions. Nevertheless, B&B plans to reopen in September.

[jaxlongtimer]

^It’s one of the few (the other being bellwether) actual nice lunch places that we take out of town people to for work.

Same. When taking clients and out of town coworkers out for lunch, we used to rotate between Cowford, Black Sheep, Olio, Candy Apple, Bellwether, and later Bread & Board. When it was just grabbing a quick lunch with the team, it was Jumpin Jax, or Magnificat, or Zodiak Grill, or Burrito Gallery. All gone, except Belli. Kinda wild that so much damage has been done in recent years that it’ll be a win for the mayor to get us back to the booming 2019s by end of first term.

^ I believe a correction may be in order as Cowford is still open based on a check of their website. 

Somebody Downtown needs to package restaurants and parking with cultural events such as the symphony, Broadway series, Florida Theater, MOCA, etc.  Maybe even connect with transit to the sporting venues or a sunset ride on the River Taxi, too.  There is no imaginative marketing of all that Downtown might offer.... a huge missed opportunity for everyone.  When I go to a cultural event, I end up in San Marco for dinner first, not Downtown.  Where is DIA, DVI, Visitors Bureau, etc.?

[Ken_FSU]

^It’s one of the few (the other being bellwether) actual nice lunch places that we take out of town people to for work.

Same. When taking clients and out of town coworkers out for lunch, we used to rotate between Cowford, Black Sheep, Olio, Candy Apple, Bellwether, and later Bread & Board. When it was just grabbing a quick lunch with the team, it was Jumpin Jax, or Magnificat, or Zodiak Grill, or Burrito Gallery. All gone, except Belli. Kinda wild that so much damage has been done in recent years that it’ll be a win for the mayor to get us back to the booming 2019s by end of first term.

^ I believe a correction may be in order as Cowford is still open based on a check of their website.

Still open for dinner. Was talking lunch specifically. They discontinued lunch service in 2020.

[Captain Zissou]

There is no imaginative marketing of all that Downtown might offer.... a huge missed opportunity for everyone.  When I go to a cultural event, I end up in San Marco for dinner first, not Downtown.  Where is DIA, DVI, Visitors Bureau, etc.?

What imaginative marketing are Town Hall, Taverna, Matthew's, and Rue st Marc doing to draw you in?  In the 20+ years that Matthew's has been open, i don't think i've seen a single advertisement for them.  Matthew's and Cowford have valet, but Bellwether is easier to park at than all other San Marco options.  I'd argue that Bellwether and Cowford are on par with everything except Matthews, so why don't you patronize the downtown options more?  If you'd like downtown to be more successful, why don't you prioritize supporting the businesses? 

[jaxlongtimer]

There is no imaginative marketing of all that Downtown might offer.... a huge missed opportunity for everyone.  When I go to a cultural event, I end up in San Marco for dinner first, not Downtown.  Where is DIA, DVI, Visitors Bureau, etc.?

What imaginative marketing are Town Hall, Taverna, Matthew's, and Rue st Marc doing to draw you in?  In the 20+ years that Matthew's has been open, i don't think i've seen a single advertisement for them.  Matthew's and Cowford have valet, but Bellwether is easier to park at than all other San Marco options.  I'd argue that Bellwether and Cowford are on par with everything except Matthews, so why don't you patronize the downtown options more?  If you'd like downtown to be more successful, why don't you prioritize supporting the businesses? 

Places outside downtown, as you note, don't need to market much because they don't need too.  They have a built-in customer base due to their locations and perceived ease of access and security vs. Downtown.  I am not saying the perception is accurate but, as the saying goes, "perception is reality." 

So, if you want to overcome a less than robust perception, you need to market yourselves.  If marketing wasn't beneficial, we would not have any promotions, advertising, etc. so it obviously works.  You can stick your head in the sand and wait for perceptions to change but then you may be out of business as so many Downtown places have seen. 

By the way, the San Marco Merchants Association does lots of marketing for San Marco Square and is responsible for engineering the current traffic flow, upgrading the streetscape, updating the landscaping and hosting lots of events during the year (such as fun runs, Xmas festivities, art festival, Fla-Ga weekend, etc.).  I would call that imaginative marketing and don't think San Marco would be where it is today without those efforts, in part at least.

Downtown has advantages, as I suggested, with the cultural arts, the river, etc. and it is missing the boat not to exploit those.  Without promotion, they will be greatly overlooked by much of the populace, as evidenced by the current state of affairs.