COVID Again Rampant in Jax

[jaxoNOLE]

The data are overwhelming in their consensus that the vaccines are highly effective. They are as near to perfect as humanly possible at preventing death, highly effective at preventing hospitalization, and even against Delta are at least moderately effective at preventing symptomatic infection.

The only legitimate point of debate is how long they remain effective, but studies are emerging to clear up that issue as well.

To offer some perspective, the COVID vaccines are far more effective at preventing death from COVID-19 than seatbelts are at preventing death in car crashes. If the efficacy of the vaccine does not impress you, you may want to reconsider the point of buckling up when you go out and drive. If your concern is the safety of the vaccine, then statistically, you probably shouldn't drive at all--it's far more dangerous.

This. I've removed a post from above containing (more) COVID misinformation. As I said before, this ain't the place.

 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better? It's like asking the military to fight a war, but wait a minute, you can't use any planes!

We should be grateful for the efficacy our vaccines do have, even if they aren't completely perfect, because they are a great weapon in our arsenal of options to limit casualties.

[Adam White]

From what I understand, what is happening in Israel is likely the result of two things:

1) The decline in vaccine effectiveness over time. Israel was one of the first countries to vaccinate their population. They are 'lucky' enough to be experiencing a wave of the virus (courtesy of the Delta variant) at a time when the population's vaccination protection is waning.

2) The current vaccines we have aren't that good against the Delta variant - studies show a real world efficacy of about 50%. So more people are getting sick, even if they are vaccinated.

Now, what we do know about the vaccines is that even though they aren't very good at protecting against infection, they appear to be good at preventing hospitalisation and death. In the UK, our numbers of new cases are quite high - we are over 30K new cases daily, but our hospitalisations are around 5K and daily deaths are averaging about 100. I don't wish to downplay the deaths of anyone, but 100 deaths a day is nowhere near what we were seeing last year (or earlier this year when the Alpha variant was in ascendance).

Who knows that the US will experience in the autumn. But if large amounts of the population are just now being vaccinated, they may not experience the same sort of spike in cases as Israel is having now (as the population may be more recently vaccinated and have more protection).

But I cannot see how the experience of Israel would leave anyone with the idea that vaccinations are somehow a bad thing. The only real tools we have right now to battle the virus are vaccines and lockdowns. And I guess, casirivimab/imdevimab. So vaccinate as many people as possible, implement lockdowns or other 'social distancing' protocols when necessary and treat people with anti-COVID drugs when they get sick (when possible).

[MusicMan]

Stop with the facts already. The right wing hysteria is much more entertaining.  Like, were you aware, Joe Biden secretly negotiated the exit from Afghanistan last year while Trump was still in office? 

Any way, the only headlines I'm seeing is "right wing radio personality "  or "Local GOP leader".... "who mocked Covid dies from Covid."
It' sad but not surprising. You think they would have learned from Herman Cain. 

Like this:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/caleb-wallace-anti-mask-freedom-rally-organizer-dies-at-30-with-covid/ar-AANQY7H?li=BBnbfcL

Or this: https://www.thewrap.com/marc-bernier-anti-vax-radio-host-dies-from-covid-19/

I could put up dozens....


I mean 60 court cased thrown out but many still think the election was stolen. America is becoming a joke. "My Pillow Guy" is the punch line.

[bl8jaxnative]

 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better?

----

Why such a childish view?  If someone doesn't praise something they oppose?  Please, please, please.  The level of logic and scientific illiteracy being shown around here is painful.

In no way shape or form is pointing out that half the patients in Israeli hospitals with Covid19 were vaccinated a statement FOR NOR AGAINST.  It's just a fact.   That's all.  It's like observing that gravity accelerates an object at 9.8m/s2.

I tell you fruit of the loom underwear are cheap and don't last long, that is NOT an argument against wearing underwear. 

These therapeutics have their limitations.  Seat belts have their limitations too.   I still use seat belts even though in some situations, they dno't make a difference.  I still use seat belts even though in other situations, they only mitigate the damage I'll suffer. 

 Seat belts are easy to use and pretty darn risk free.  I like seat belts.  I like the mRNA covi19 vaccinations.

[jaxoNOLE]

 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better?

----

Why such a childish view?  If someone doesn't praise something they oppose?  Please, please, please.  The level of logic and scientific illiteracy being shown around here is painful.

In no way shape or form is pointing out that half the patients in Israeli hospitals with Covid19 were vaccinated a statement FOR NOR AGAINST.  It's just a fact.   That's all.  It's like observing that gravity accelerates an object at 9.8m/s2.

I tell you fruit of the loom underwear are cheap and don't last long, that is NOT an argument against wearing underwear. 

These therapeutics have their limitations.  Seat belts have their limitations too.   I still use seat belts even though in some situations, they dno't make a difference.  I still use seat belts even though in other situations, they only mitigate the damage I'll suffer. 

 Seat belts are easy to use and pretty darn risk free.  I like seat belts.  I like the mRNA covi19 vaccinations.

I'm not saying you're against vaccinations because you won't praise them. You explicitly said:

the so-called vaccinations do not work well.

I suggest you speak with yourself and straighten out your position on the matter. Meanwhile, save us the charade of pretending to "just be here sharing facts" when you yourself have belied your real position.

[Tacachale]

 What's happening in Israel is what is going to happen here this fall and winter.  Buckle up, you ain't going to like the ride.

Even if that is true--how would fewer vaccinations make anything better?

----

Why such a childish view?  If someone doesn't praise something they oppose?  Please, please, please.  The level of logic and scientific illiteracy being shown around here is painful.

In no way shape or form is pointing out that half the patients in Israeli hospitals with Covid19 were vaccinated a statement FOR NOR AGAINST.  It's just a fact.   That's all.  It's like observing that gravity accelerates an object at 9.8m/s2.

I tell you fruit of the loom underwear are cheap and don't last long, that is NOT an argument against wearing underwear. 

These therapeutics have their limitations.  Seat belts have their limitations too.   I still use seat belts even though in some situations, they dno't make a difference.  I still use seat belts even though in other situations, they only mitigate the damage I'll suffer. 

 Seat belts are easy to use and pretty darn risk free.  I like seat belts.  I like the mRNA covi19 vaccinations.

I'm not saying you're against vaccinations because you won't praise them. You explicitly said:

the so-called vaccinations do not work well.

I suggest you speak with yourself and straighten out your position on the matter. Meanwhile, save us the charade of pretending to "just be here sharing facts" when you yourself have belied your real position.

Additionally, bl8rjax has made several posts that we've removed for being anti-vax or otherwise spreading COVID misinformation. Sorry, you don't get to be indignant when folks call you out.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Long time reader... 

I only have a single question that I haven't seen answered in the thread.

My personal context:
I am unvaxxed, but I was Covid + last year, and only found out during a check after one of our kids came home from school after a contact issue.

I have never had any Covid symptoms and still have ZERO plan on getting the shot.  No one in our house (5) have had symptoms worse than the common cold.  Once the vax became available, everyone else in my house got the shot except for the 5/yo and I'm honestly torn as to whether to allow her to get it once it becomes available.

Because I would have to make the assumption that there are millions like myself who have the anti-bodies and don't even know it.  Between the CV+ cases (known & unknown) are walking the streets and the amount of vaccines that have been distributed, we have to be getting a lot closer to that magical 'herd-immunity' number.

Question:
What is normal for you right now?

Are you staying home more? do you go out and mask up (with something more than a piece of fabric with elastic ear straps)? do you just avoid crowds?

[Adam White]

Long time reader... 

I only have a single question that I haven't seen answered in the thread.

My personal context:
I am unvaxxed, but I was Covid + last year, and only found out during a check after one of our kids came home from school after a contact issue.

I have never had any Covid symptoms and still have ZERO plan on getting the shot.  No one in our house (5) have had symptoms worse than the common cold.  Once the vax became available, everyone else in my house got the shot except for the 5/yo and I'm honestly torn as to whether to allow her to get it once it becomes available.

Because I would have to make the assumption that there are millions like myself who have the anti-bodies and don't even know it.  Between the CV+ cases (known & unknown) are walking the streets and the amount of vaccines that have been distributed, we have to be getting a lot closer to that magical 'herd-immunity' number.

Question:
What is normal for you right now?

Are you staying home more? do you go out and mask up (with something more than a piece of fabric with elastic ear straps)? do you just avoid crowds?

I stay home more - I don't do much. If I have to go out, I wear a mask when indoors (or on public transport). I avoid crowds.

Now, whether or not you choose to get the vaccine is up to you. But, depending on when you had the virus, you likely are seeing a gradual reduction in antibodies (as you said it was last year). I'd get the vaccine if I were you.

[jaxoNOLE]

^To put my behavior in context, I had mild symptomatic COVID before I was eligible for a vaccine. Once I was eligible, I was vaccinated. At least one study has recently shown the combination of vaccination and natural immunity is stronger protection than vaccination alone against variants (obviously, that is not meant to suggest people should seek out natural immunity because of the inherent risks to self and society).

For me, I follow CDC guidelines. When they said masks were not required for vaccinated people, I stopped wearing one. When Delta hit, I started again. I do go out socially, but avoid packed indoor spaces. I'm not concerned for my own health, but I do not want to unknowingly spread an asymptomatic infection to someone who will fare far worse than I. I work from home now, so that alone significantly mitigates transmission.

Be aware that we are still learning about how long all forms of immunity last, and how effective they are against variants. Nothing is a guarantee--neither your natural immunity, nor vaccinations. But we do know the combination of both stimulates a stronger immune response, and that vaccines alone are still highly effective at preventing hospitalization and death. We also can't assume that because symptoms from one variant were mild or nonexistent that infection with a different variant will be equally as mild. But those are the risks you assume for yourself.

The trouble for me is I would be inconsolable if I knew that because I didn't take all reasonable precautions, I spread an infection to someone else. Breakthrough cases are happening in the elderly and the immunocompromised. They've done their part in being vaccinated, but they're vulnerable. I felt I owed it to them to take the stick and a few hours of discomfort. Could I still kill them? Yes, nothing is perfect. But I've done what I can. For being such a small inconvenience, "better safe than sorry" seems like the right approach in my opinion.

[BridgeTroll]

Long time reader... 

I only have a single question that I haven't seen answered in the thread.

My personal context:
I am unvaxxed, but I was Covid + last year, and only found out during a check after one of our kids came home from school after a contact issue.

I have never had any Covid symptoms and still have ZERO plan on getting the shot.  No one in our house (5) have had symptoms worse than the common cold.  Once the vax became available, everyone else in my house got the shot except for the 5/yo and I'm honestly torn as to whether to allow her to get it once it becomes available.

Because I would have to make the assumption that there are millions like myself who have the anti-bodies and don't even know it.  Between the CV+ cases (known & unknown) are walking the streets and the amount of vaccines that have been distributed, we have to be getting a lot closer to that magical 'herd-immunity' number.

Question:
What is normal for you right now?

Are you staying home more? do you go out and mask up (with something more than a piece of fabric with elastic ear straps)? do you just avoid crowds?

Hey NRW!  Where ya been?  To answer your question… am vaccinated… avoid crowds, and mask. Question for you…
Why ZERO intention to vaccinate?  Inquiring minds want to know…

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Adam, I've recently considered getting an anti-body test.  Will likely happen this month, because I do hope to do some travelling during the NFL season.  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but from reading your posts on here for a few years, don't you have some medical concerns that would put you in more of a high-risk category, so you need to be a little more cautious.   I'm not normally much of a social person anyhow, so avoiding crowds isn't usually a huge deal, but the NFL season is here and I will be in close prox. to strangers for about 4 hours a week for 10 weeks.

jaxo,  I pretty much follow the guidelines as well and if requested to put on a mask, I do.  I haven't run into it yet, but if a place requires a vax card, I just won't go. 

With regards to the asymptomatic spreading, I've been pretty open with my circles, and if I know that I've been in contact with a + case, I just let them know that I have and it becomes their decision, not mine if I'm there.  I totally get that my decision to stay un-vaxxed doesn't trump their decision to not be around me.  I've been asked to not show up due to an admitted close contact.  It is what it is; personal freedoms and all.

But the bear of this entire 'pandemic' is as you mentioned - we're still learning so much about what works, what doesn't, how long, best course of action, etc. and the goalposts continue to move. 

To answer my own question, I'm pretty much back to living a normal life.  The few inconveniences are just that, small inconveniences, and I've done a pretty good job of not making mountains out of a molehills. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Hey NRW!  Where ya been?  To answer your question… am vaccinated… avoid crowds, and mask. Question for you…
Why ZERO intention to vaccinate?  Inquiring minds want to know…

I've just been busy and when things get hectic, socials are usually the first thing I cut out.  Still busy, but just hopped back in reading the threads a few weeks ago to see how things were going.

Zero intention because I have had a history of just having a pretty strong immunity to 'things' and don't usually catch the bugs and viruses that are out and about.  My SO was in health-care for the past 8 years, always had a required flu-shot, and always ended up with a fairly hefty case of crud 3-4 times a year.  For whatever reason, I just rarely get more than a drippy nose. 

All of my family has had pretty much the same when it comes to 'normal' viruses/bugs.

Other than that, I don't really have a good reason other than, 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'. 

If you couple that with the fact that I didn't 'catch anything' during my early twenties is amazing.  I'm not necessarily proud, but there's about a dozen and half time that don't know how I didn't need a shot of penicillin or two.   

[BridgeTroll]

Hey NRW!  Where ya been?  To answer your question… am vaccinated… avoid crowds, and mask. Question for you…
Why ZERO intention to vaccinate?  Inquiring minds want to know…

I've just been busy and when things get hectic, socials are usually the first thing I cut out.  Still busy, but just hopped back in reading the threads a few weeks ago to see how things were going.

Zero intention because I have had a history of just having a pretty strong immunity to 'things' and don't usually catch the bugs and viruses that are out and about.  My SO was in health-care for the past 8 years, always had a required flu-shot, and always ended up with a fairly hefty case of crud 3-4 times a year.  For whatever reason, I just rarely get more than a drippy nose. 

All of my family has had pretty much the same when it comes to 'normal' viruses/bugs.

Other than that, I don't really have a good reason other than, 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'. 

If you couple that with the fact that I didn't 'catch anything' during my early twenties is amazing.  I'm not necessarily proud, but there's about a dozen and half time that don't know how I didn't need a shot of penicillin or two.   

Ok... but I know of two others using similar logic... one dead and another with the dreaded "long haul" symptoms. Age... mid forties... decent health...

What do they say about a stock or fund... past performance does not predict future earnings...

Stay healthy my friend...

[Adam White]

Adam, I've recently considered getting an anti-body test.  Will likely happen this month, because I do hope to do some travelling during the NFL season.  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but from reading your posts on here for a few years, don't you have some medical concerns that would put you in more of a high-risk category, so you need to be a little more cautious.   I'm not normally much of a social person anyhow, so avoiding crowds isn't usually a huge deal, but the NFL season is here and I will be in close prox. to strangers for about 4 hours a week for 10 weeks.

No, all my medical concerns are mental health issues. Well, those and migraines.

I thought I got COVID in March of last year. Of course, it was before they had tests. It was just after lockdown and my wife got sick first and I got it a couple days later. It was mild - just a fairly high fever for a few days (and general malaise). And some initial body aches. A few days after the fever was gone, I lost my sense of smell for over a week. It was at that point that I wondered if I had actually had it.

Now, I was SUPER sick in December of 2019. Worst cough of my life (I pulled muscles in my chest), very high fever for a few days and a bit of nausea at first. And then I lost my senses of smell and taste for about a week. Of course, we didn't know about COVID then and it's likely that I didn't have it. So who knows - but the weird thing is that I've never lost my sense of smell before and I lost it twice in about four months.

My wife just took an antibody test and we're awaiting the results. She has been taking part in a COVID study (where she reports weekly on how she feels) and so she qualified to take part (they've not rolled out antibody tests for the general population in the UK yet). As soon as one is available, I'll take it.

It's not my place to pressure you to get the vaccine - but if you're planning on going to football games, I think you should just do it. You've pretty much got nothing to lose. The vaccines are safe and although they are a bit crap against the Delta variant, it still gives you about a 50-50 chance you won't get it. Sports events are kind of notorious for spreading the virus. We had a bunch of stories of vaccinated and non-vaccinated people getting COVID after the UEFA European Championship final at Wembley in July. And if nothing else, do it for your family.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ From what I understand, immunity from having had COVID is not as strong as that offered by the vaccine.  So, if you want maximum protection, you need to get the vaccine.  I know many who got COVID before the vaccine was available that followed up with the vaccine for this reason. 

It's not just about spreading it to others either.  It's about increasing the odds greatly that you don't end up in the hospital or with severe symptoms if you get COVID a second or more times which is entirely possible due to reduced immunity, your own unique issues and/or new mutations (just like there are breakthroughs for the vaccine immunity).

To me its an easy call.  There is nothing good about getting COVID whether its immediate severe health issues, long COVID or latent impacts (e.g. heart, brain, etc.) to your health later in life that are yet to be fully understood.  The vaccines are far better bets for your health and, after probably over a billion doses, clearly have a miniscule risk.  I also note that while the vaccines were only "recently" targeted toward COVID, the underlying development technology has been proven over many years and is well researched and studied.  It's one reason they were so widely endorsed early on.