Author Topic: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police  (Read 18868 times)

bl8jaxnative

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2021, 09:22:24 AM »
The problem is when web hosting services, also private companies, are allowed to censor speech by denying a platform to competitors. What if Facebook, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft were run by a bunch of Nazis? Would we defend their rights as private entities to run their businesses and censor speech they deemed false or inflammatory, while limiting platform access to liberal competitors?

I don't think the tech giants should be playing a role in being active arbiters of truthfulness or censorship, but hey, that's their prerogative. The antitrust measures Biden's administration are pursuing seem sensible, but are themselves running into legal obstacles.

Please be sure to include Fox News in this discussion.  I consider them much more worrisome than the tech giants based on their track record to date.  Their shows have far more viewers than any single post on a web site as a rule and its clear that Fox has impacted the direction of politics, policy and the quality of discourse in this country over the last few decades, and not necessarily for the better.

Just as DeSantis lost his case to regulate social media, I suspect any other efforts to regulate the techs control of their sites may fail for the same reasons.  I haven't seen any cable channels being asked to provide "balanced" content and not just anyone can set up a channel.  And while web companies have market clout, anyone can pretty much establish a web site to offer their view of the world.  Getting traffic to their site is their real issue.  Trump just gave up on his "blog" for this reason supposedly.

Sounds like the slippery slope... perhaps this is what gun owners feel when new "small and reasonable " restrictions are placed on a right they are defending. I keep hearing about "common sense " restrictions but more and more keep coming...

Slippery slopes are slippery for everyone...
Slippery indeed.  To back DeSantis' redundant and questionable laws while opposing sensible firearm restrictions is hypocritical.  I would love to see a "gun rights" advocate just once quote the entire 2nd amendment instead of the usual "right to bear arms" snippet of that amendment.  The amendment already contains restrictions that the NRA and gun nuts always ignore.



No, it does not


Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Charles Hunter

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2021, 09:34:53 AM »
Where can I get me a Stinger Missle, or perhaps a Tactical Nuclear Weapon?  I think they are necessary so I can help preserve the security of a free state.


BridgeTroll

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2021, 10:47:23 AM »
Where can I get me a Stinger Missle, or perhaps a Tactical Nuclear Weapon?  I think they are necessary so I can help preserve the security of a free state.



Sooo... sounds like you agree that any of the Bill of Rights can be limited.  Perhaps we just differ on the restrictions...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

bl8jaxnative

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2021, 02:31:41 PM »
Where can I get me a Stinger Missle, or perhaps a Tactical Nuclear Weapon?  I think they are necessary so I can help preserve the security of a free state.

Note that your claim is the admendment contains restrictions. 

It does not contain restrictions.

again:
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.




That's my only point.  Your restrictions claim is incorrect.  It does not contain them.


Should their be limitations?  Sure.



But that's moving far away from the original problem.  A bunch of  whingin' numpties took a simple survey and declared that the end of the world is coming cuz of all the evil things that will be done with survey.

Really?  The problem is the survey?

Like the Census.  The frickin' census.


For anything nefarious to be done by anyone, you will need this Florida survey to track WHO answered what.   If the laws don't dictate that the WHO part may not be tracked, then we don't have the potential for abuse.


Charles Hunter

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2021, 04:26:44 PM »
I am confused.
First, you say that the 2nd Amendment does not allow any restrictions on the possession of "arms" by citizens.
Then you say "Should there be limitations? Sure."
What is the difference between "restrictions" and "limitations" on the right to keep and bear Arms?
I was arguing there are already laws limiting (or restricting) the arms I can keep and bear.  The debate is over where to draw the line on what weapons can be restricted (or limited) from personal use (or, keeping and bearing, if you prefer).

But, to join you back at the original point.
Quote
For anything nefarious to be done by anyone, you will need this Florida survey to track WHO answered what.  If the laws don't dictate that the WHO part may not be tracked, then we don't have the potential for abuse.

I think you may have inadvertently typed a double-negative obscuring your point.  To achieve nefarious ends, the powers that be would have to be able to track how individuals respond to the survey, instead of just seeing aggregated results. "Charles Hunter replied 'Yes' to Question 2" vs. "72.3% of respondents picked 'Yes' for Question 2."  The law signed by the Governor does NOT include a requirement that the survey be anonymous.  The relevant section of the law:
Quote
Ch2021-159  [CS for HB 233]
(b) The State Board of Education [Board of Governors] shall require each Florida College System [state university] institution to conduct an annual assessment of the intellectual freedom and viewpoint diversity at that institution. The State Board of Education shall select or create an objective, nonpartisan, and statistically valid survey to be used by each institution which considers the extent to which competing ideas and perspectives are presented and members of the college community, including students, faculty, and staff, feel free to express their beliefs and viewpoints on campus and in the classroom. The State Board of Education [Board of Governors] shall annually compile and publish the assessments by September 1 of each year, beginning on September 1, 2022. The State Board of Education [Board of Governors] may adopt rules to implement this paragraph.

This language does not say anything about an anonymous survey.  That may be intent, but it is not in the language of the law.

The same language is in sections 1001.03 (19)(b) and 1001.706 (13)(b), one refers to the Florida College System, the other to the State University System.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2021, 11:09:08 PM »
^Even an anonymous survey can have chilling effects.  Respondents may not fully trust that it is anonymous.  But, more so, the survey takers can take the results and manipulate their interpretation of said results to use it as an excuse to further regulate the teachings and curriculum of the faculty.  Isn't that the whole purpose of this rule?  To police the speech in the classroom and bend it to someone's arbitrary standard.  Thus, the "thought police."

If DeSantis doesn't like the point of views on a campus, why doesn't he volunteer himself to be an adjunct professor and teach a political science class.  Students who want to hear his approach to problem solving are welcome to enroll.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 07:36:47 PM by jaxlongtimer »

BridgeTroll

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2021, 06:42:35 AM »
^Even an anonymous survey can have chilling effects.  Respondents may not fully trust that it is anonymous.  But, more so, the survey takers can take the results and manipulate their interpretation of said results to use it as an excuse to further regulate the teachings and curriculum of the faculty.  Isn't that the whole purpose of this rule?  To police the speech in the classroom and bend it to someone's arbitrary standard.  Thus, the "thought police."

If DeSantis doesn't like the point of views on a campus, why doesn't he volunteer himself to be an adjunct professor and teach a political science class.  Students who want to hear his approach to problem solving are welcomed to enroll.
Lol...really??? Going there???  Half of the polling conducted in the country originates at university and college.

STOP IT...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #97 on: July 19, 2021, 07:32:24 AM »
While I don’t trust the state to create polling that’s fair or useful in this case, polling itself is par for the course at a college. We poll and survey EVERYTHING. The issue is going to be biased polling (leading questions, engineered to get a preconceived conclusion, etc.) and the stated threat of cutting off funding if the schools don’t meet whatever DeSantis claims is the threshold for ideological purity.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

BridgeTroll

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2021, 08:10:37 AM »
Sooo... this is a question of trust. This seems to be a nationwide problem. Dems don't trust reps... black doesn't trust white... right doesn't trust left... people don't trust police, vaccines, doctors, scientists...

We are truly in trouble...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #99 on: July 19, 2021, 09:41:40 AM »
Sooo... this is a question of trust. This seems to be a nationwide problem. Dems don't trust reps... black doesn't trust white... right doesn't trust left... people don't trust police, vaccines, doctors, scientists...

We are truly in trouble...

I don't have any problem trusting Republicans. I have a problem trusting someone who starts out by saying that colleges are "hotbeds of stale ideology" that are "indoctrinating" students when that doesn't jibe even remotely with my experience working at a college for 12 years.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

BridgeTroll

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2021, 10:08:47 AM »
Sooo... this is a question of trust. This seems to be a nationwide problem. Dems don't trust reps... black doesn't trust white... right doesn't trust left... people don't trust police, vaccines, doctors, scientists...

We are truly in trouble...

I don't have any problem trusting Republicans. I have a problem trusting someone who starts out by saying that colleges are "hotbeds of stale ideology" that are "indoctrinating" students when that doesn't jibe even remotely with my experience working at a college for 12 years.

Fair enough...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

jaxlongtimer

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2021, 11:51:39 AM »
Sooo... this is a question of trust. This seems to be a nationwide problem. Dems don't trust reps... black doesn't trust white... right doesn't trust left... people don't trust police, vaccines, doctors, scientists...

We are truly in trouble...

I don't have any problem trusting Republicans. I have a problem trusting someone who starts out by saying that colleges are "hotbeds of stale ideology" that are "indoctrinating" students when that doesn't jibe even remotely with my experience working at a college for 12 years.

My point exactly.  The required survey is to meet an agenda, not to improve the education provided by the colleges.

JeffreyS

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2021, 12:30:41 PM »
Sooo... this is a question of trust. This seems to be a nationwide problem. Dems don't trust reps... black doesn't trust white... right doesn't trust left... people don't trust police, vaccines, doctors, scientists...

We are truly in trouble...

I don't have any problem trusting Republicans. I have a problem trusting someone who starts out by saying that colleges are "hotbeds of stale ideology" that are "indoctrinating" students when that doesn't jibe even remotely with my experience working at a college for 12 years.

Fair enough...

So he presumes the findings and threatens funding based on his approval of the findings. (Per the announcement press conference).
Lenny Smash

BridgeTroll

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #103 on: July 19, 2021, 12:42:22 PM »
Trust. You don't trust DeSantis. Not surprising. As I thought... no one really trusts anyone and that's why he really doesn't care what you think of the survey. He... and others have reports of political intimidation of students and faculty. It's completely reasonable to anonymously survey or poll both groups to find the extent of these allegations. I support these actions 100%.

I am interested in the truth. While I believe Taca... his experience at UNF may not be an accurate representation of the entire system...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

JeffreyS

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Re: DeSantis Promoting Thought Police
« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2021, 06:58:16 PM »
If I trust DeSantis’s statement then he has made up his mind and will punish academia accordingly.
Lenny Smash