Florida Times-Union property under contract; $250 million project planned

[jaxlongtimer]

Just like the apartments next to the School Board building or those replacing the River City Brewing Company, the really prime riverfront spots are being developed no denser nor of higher quality than what can be found in any part of Jacksonville or any other city.

I'd like to see 8 more skyscrapers, 30,000 more housing units and 400,000 new square feet of retail pop up in 'Downtown' Jacksonville in the next three years.

But, that's not the market. 

One one hand, you are saying that the riverfront is not dense enough...  and then you have these irrelevant broken records:

I do care about setbacks as previously expressed on other threads.

blather about massive setbacks and arbitrary height limits along the riverfront. 

Pretty confident that this middle ground I'm standing on is more the right temperature.  To each their own 

I don't recall the comment you attribute to me about riverfront density so I would appreciate the cite so I can see the context it was made in if I made it.  That said, density and setbacks are not mutually exclusive and can actually be complimentary as density can be achieved with higher buildings, just further setback, to allow for more greenspace along the river.

When it comes to setbacks, they should be honored regardless of the "market."  That's why they are there.  To take the long view, not just the market of today.  Again, exceptions will be there for decades if not forever.  If developers can't live with that, they can move on.  However, cities all over manage setbacks and have development so maybe there is something else amiss here that would put off developers.

My "blather" is just as important to me as your "blather" is to you.  Neither of us has an exclusive in that regard. 

Height limits are only "arbitrary" in Jacksonville because standards mean little here.  DIA, or whoever, just "arbitrarily" waives them all the time.  We have an alleged standard that hopefully involved some research, expert inputs and maybe some mathematical calculation in determining sight lines.  Would be nice if it was consistently enforced.

[acme54321]

Didn't realize they wanted to move the creek.  I'd rather see if left where it is and have them put a building in that hole along the railroad track with the park area along the creek in the middle of the development.

[jaxlongtimer]

Didn't realize they wanted to move the creek.  I'd rather see if left where it is and have them put a building in that hole along the railroad track with the park area along the creek in the middle of the development.

I suppose it is less desirable to have residential buildings any closer to the bridge and railroad than absolutely necessary.  The park/creek may serve as a buffer given it has to go somewhere on the property.  Also, having the creek "open air" was highly desirable. With no buildings over it, they would likely have to build some type of bridge structure over the creek to integrate the entire complex and that may have taken more bucks and real estate than they wanted to give up.  Lastly, given the Emerald Trail will follow the creek, they might not have wanted that much "outside" traffic traversing through the middle of a mostly residential property for security and other reasons.

[jcjohnpaint]

Think it is kind of a letdown they didn’t incorporate the creek into the design.

[thelakelander]

^That entire section around the creek is identified as a phase 2. It seems that phase 1 could be under construction before that phase of the McCoys Creek Restoration begins. From that perspective, what's shown now could easily change once the design of McCoys Creek is far enough along.

[marcuscnelson]

I guess I posted in the wrong thread yesterday.

Maybe it’s because of the complete lack of architectural detail in the renderings, but this feels… rather underwhelming? It gives off the Spandrel vibe of “this could really go on any property, but we had our hands on this one.”

[thelakelander]

It appears to be a massing model at this point. No renderings for a specific product. Definitely not really a market for high rise construction locally though. Need to fill in a bunch of surface parking lots. It appears Jax's sweet spot is 6 to 12 floors for years to come. Keep that in mind, the next time someone proposes blowing up anything taller.

[heights unknown]

Well, that being said LAKE and others, regarding "tallness," I guess I need to change my name to LOW RISE UNKNOWN, or, MID RISE UNKNOWN; how does that sound?

[jcjohnpaint]

Heights Unknown 2075

[heights unknown]

Heights Unknown 2075

LOLOL...will be dead and gone and it won't matter, but you're probably right and on point!

[Ken_FSU]

Seems like a really fair ask in terms of incentives.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dollar28-4-million-in-city-grants-proposed-for-project-at-florida-times-union-site

Pretty much all rev grants on the back end.

I like the project a lot more after hearing that they have plans for at least one riverfront restaurant in Phase 2.

[jaxjags]

Related Group - 327 units, garage and restaurant - $100,000,000. TU Site - 396 units, garage, restaurant, grocery store and 31,000 sq. ft. retail - $182,000,000? I have a tough time believing 15% more units, grocery and retail costs $82,000,000. San Marco is similar in total size and is $10,000,000 plus site work. Are their incentives based on "estimates". Just asking.

[thelakelander]

How does the daylighting and relocation of McCoys Creek and the demolition of the TU complex come into play? Neither the RCB or San Marco projects had these factors included in the redevelopment plan.

[acme54321]

I never really paid much attention to it before, but most of this site is buried behind the Riverside Dr and Acosta ramps.  The ramp starts going up right after the traffic light, the grocery store will be completely behind it.

[thelakelander]

My guess is that will work. Most that frontage will be the side or back of the grocery anyway.