JTA’s National Autonomous Vehicle Day event is happening again today. They’re streaming on YouTube:Part 1 (Morning)Part 2 (Afternoon)I’ll transcribe some of Mr. Ford’s statements later. Emily Turner from Action News also attended, asking some questions of JTA executives as well as City Councilman Rahman Johnson, her questions can be seen on the stream here.
Alright Greer, so see me this afternoon around your evaluation. She embarrassed me a little bit there. I mean, I don’t do all of this by myself. I’ve got a great team of folks here at the JTA and they afford me the opportunity to lead at the national level. It’s so great to be here and see all of you here, and welcome to our 2025 [sic] AV Day celebration. This has been an exciting week for the JTA. Earlier this week, we broke ground on our new AIC, the Automated [sic] Innovation Center in LaVilla, and so it’s just been a great week. We had visitors from the FTA here, talking about our project amongst all the other projects we have underway here at the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, so good morning everyone and it’s great to see you all here. We welcome you to the Armsdale Test & Learn facility. It is a key component to our autonomous vehicle program here and we opened it up once we decided to move forward with the Ultimate Urban Circulator, you know it as the U2C, and you have seen probably in the last-if you’ve been reading the newspapers and following Jacksonville, we have been just exploding in terms of population. We are now ranked 10th in the nation in terms of total population as a city, so we broke that hurdle and we’re in the top 10 in terms of population, and recently Wall Street Journal placed us as the second hottest job market in the US and the number one job market in terms of Florida. More and more people - alright that does deserve applause. So, more and more people are moving here every day and that is pressing our transportation infrastructure and is why it’s so necessary for us to embrace autonomous vehicle technology. Covering 870 square miles we have a lot of nooks and crannies, and including our downtown, to really try and service our community and move them in a more efficient way. To address that need we are rapidly becoming-and that’s why we’re here today. We are trying to set Jacksonville up to be a center of autonomous vehicle technology and we appreciate you all being here. And in fact, you may have heard about Project Link. Project Link is tied to our U2C program. Project Link is an investment by a major, international tier-one automotive-grade organization to actually begin manufacturing autonomous vehicles here in the United States and hopefully through a process, it will be right here in Jacksonville, and we are so excited about that opportunity, the jobs that will be created in addition to the mobility, the economic impact will be for generations yet unborn in terms of Jacksonville and put our city on a totally innovative trajectory.I mentioned two days earlier, we broke ground on the Autonomous Innovation Center. We are on schedule to deliver the U2C project, the Bay Street Innovation Corridor in 2025. We are on schedule, we’re making great progress. The U2C represents our vision of the future, where our residents and our visitors are better connected to destinations, which will help them improve the quality of their lives. We here in Jacksonville, we like to pride ourselves on our healthcare facilities. In addition to the U2C project, we’ve done work in the past during the pandemic on Mayo Clinic’s campus, and we see the opportunity, not just to move commuters and move folks who are going to sporting events and entertainment. We see an opportunity to prove the healthcare opportunities in our community by providing autonomous vehicles on those campuses. The USDOT and the FTA are our cofounders. Our project started back in 2015 and then we were fortunate to receive a BUILD grant that funded phase one of this program, and that partnership, again I told you it was a busy week, that partnership was even more reinforced just this week when we signed a grant agreement with USDOT to begin the design and examination in the planning around phase 3 of our project. We haven’t launched phase 1 as of yet, but they are feeling so bullish and so supportive of this program they’ve actually contributed $1.7 million to study phase 3 of this program.That 7 1/2 mile phase 3 expansion will go into neighborhoods like the north extension which is the UF Health corridor connecting with UF Health on the north side of Downtown Jacksonville; west extension to the Riverside corridor, that is where Dunn & Bradstreet and a number of financial institutions have built, FIS built new campuses for financial tech work that is done here in Jacksonville so we’ll be connecting with that business community; the south extension, so now we have a south extension-north extension and a south extension, on the north you’ll have UF Health, on the south you’ll have Baptist Hospital and that will create a healthcare corridor; and then a southeast extension into San Marco, one of the older neighborhoods here in Jacksonville, and completing the total 10 mile system for the U2C Program.All of this work and the planning around it will set us up for additional federal funding and we’re working very closely with USDOT and our federal partners. I believe that in the future, when the convenience of using autonomous vehicles is commonplace, you will look back at events and days like today, where we came together working from the government sector, the private sector, the innovators, where we came together and started building this new technology and this opportunity to move people more smartly in our community.I want to thank Harold Braun, Harold’s gonna be up in a second here, of Guident for being with us this morning and being a true cofounder and partner as we develop these systems in these opportunities to gather. Guident is worth working on making AV deployment safer through their work and collaboration with agencies like the JTA, our progress would not be where it is today without their support and so then. Also I need to recognize yesterday‘s keynote speaker who stepped in at the last minute, Dr. Paul Newman, renowned expert on robotics and mobile autonomy, one of the founders of what was Oxbotica and now Oxa, we did not get here alone. It is a pleasure to welcome all of you here to Jacksonville and an honor to learn from you.We didn’t get here alone, as I mentioned cofounders-and I picked up that phrase from Paul yesterday-it is a ecosystem of cofounders and terms of our project here at the JTA and one of those groups of founders is the JTA Board of Directors. Could you imagine as a CEO of the JTA and the staff, working for a board of directors that allowed us to boldly move forward with this new technology. This facility here, giving the JTA the opportunity to do the research and development so we could be a good partner with the innovators in the private sector that were working in this space, we’ve tested numerous vehicles and different technologies and systems here at this Test & Learn facility. We’re joined by Debbie Buckland-where is Debbie?-the Chair of the JTA board. Okay, she may have had to run out, but she was here and the leadership in terms of the JTA Board. They have created this environment of innovation, courageousness, and boldness here at the JTA, and I’m joined by a staff that believes in the same kind of mission and has the same DNA.I’d like to applaud our friends across the state of Florida, the United States, and the world travelers who have come here to Jacksonville to be part of today. We have a fantastic slate of panels ranging from infrastructure to workforce development and more, we are learning and growing together, and that is a hallmark of progress in this community. This is not easy to do, in fact this is tough to do, but the tough things are so rewarding in the very end. The mission is so rewarding, think about the mobility that we will be able to provide with autonomous vehicles for communities that have been landlocked for generations, providing mobility to allow people to get higher educations, get better healthcare, and to be able to get that job that they so much want to have but can’t get there efficiently. So with that, I’m just proud of everybody in this room. Thank you for your courage. Thank you for your boldness, your innovation, and thank you for joining us here in Jacksonville to be part of this journey, part of this legacy and the U2C program.
And in fact, you may have heard about Project Link. Project Link is tied to our U2C program. Project Link is an investment by a major, international tier-one automotive-grade organization to actually begin manufacturing autonomous vehicles here in the United States and hopefully through a process, it will be right here in Jacksonville, and we are so excited about that opportunity, the jobs that will be created in addition to the mobility, the economic impact will be for generations yet unborn in terms of Jacksonville and put our city on a totally innovative trajectory.
Councilman Johnson: There we go. Without any further ado, Nat, this is such an amazing opportunity for Jacksonville, and as you know with me being on the City Council and always asking questions, but vision is important for Jacksonville. We are taking vision to another level with this because it’s something that’s not been done before. What is your vision as to this project and how it will work in our community?Nat Ford: Thank you Councilman. You know, when we started this journey a few years back, we started out with a problem and the problem was the aging Skyway and it was past its useful life and we needed to figure out and decide whether we were gonna extend this obsolete technology, the 2 1/2 mile people mover that never got fully built out here in Jacksonville. It ended up stopping at 2 1/2 miles and when I first arrived, great deal of criticism and then differing opinions: tear it down, keep it up, keep it up and expand it, so there were a lot of various different opinions, but the thought was, because the JTA uniquely is a organization that does public transportation and roadway building and bridge building, our team very boldly came up with a concept of looking at how we could use autonomous vehicles and future-proof the skyway, or future-proof that downtown people mover going into the future. One of the things that I think is most important with the team, and their coming up and being creative with this new concept, was that they cared about Jacksonville and cared about this community, and many of us when we first arrived, I know myself, Greer and a couple of other folks, when we looked at a lot of our infrastructure, we thought that there was a need to really elevate it, and that we needed dignified and first class transportation infrastructure to take our city to that next level. We knew what we were taking on was a big challenge, right, something that had never been done before, but it was not a question of if on autonomous technology, it would be a question of when, and how do we do it in a way that was responsible and also something that was innovative and I say deserving of our community. The Ultimate Urban Circulator program came out of a Skyway Advisory Committee that said okay, we know downtown is going to be developing, we need to have a system that is expanded and covers the entire 10 miles. Unfortunately, covering that entire 10 mile area using the continuous Skyway would have took us into the billions of dollars and frankly they would’ve took generations probably to actually build out that aerial structure with the monorail system.We also recognized that there was a federal investment in the existing Skyway. It’s still there right now, and so with the federal investment, we were getting challenged that we’re going to keep the Skyway, properly maintain it. They saw the disinvestment, the actual cannibalization of some of the vehicles, they saw that, and the FTA was challenging us to reinvest in the existing Skyway or find a way to repurpose it, and so out of that, the U2C project was born. We had to, and this facility is example of it, if we were going down the path of autonomous vehicles, to extend the system, we had to learn and understand autonomous vehicle technology just as well as you do as the private sector and the innovators. So we couldn’t have that imbalance of authority or an agency that is talking about a technology, but really doesn’t understand the brick and mortar of how those systems operate. Very fortunate, and I applaud the JTA Board, very fortunate they gave us the green light.We had built this facility to be part of our First Coast Flyer bus rapid transit network, it was actually a motorsports showroom or something of that nature, and it was a perfect location for our automation and innovation team to separate from the core JTA operation and come here and innovate, and learn about these technologies and test over this timeframe over eight or nine different vehicles. Out of that came the Golden 20, where we actually then shared our learnings as it relates to the innovators who were developing the technology, but really didn’t understand the public transportation part of the equation. So with the golden 20, we pushed that out to all of the early manufacturers and next thing you know, we started seeing vehicles that were developed that considered ADA accessibility, public information, communication, redundant systems that are necessary to make sure we have control and command on those vehicles. So we positioned the JTA to be a leader in this space around the public transportation deployment of autonomous transportation. We positioned the JTA for that, we developed a great team of experts internally to the organization and then many of you, many of my peers around the country, I think you recall years ago I started talking about the U2C project, and not just to the government public transportation folks, we were talking to the private sector, we were doing presentations all around the globe, the idea being that we recognized and saw that there was a shortage of Buy America, and eventually no Buy America compliant vehicles in the United States, so how are we going to solve that problem?Well that got us into economic development and working with manufacturer to really see what were their plans overseas in terms of coming to the US. I say all of that to say is, we started out with a problem, but at the hearts we cared about people, we cared about technology, we cared about taxpayer investment, and the idea was to come up with a solution that would future-proof for Jacksonville, have the scalability, and have reasonable cost in terms of its development, and here we are today.We are excited about the opportunity this will bring to our community in terms of mobility at a basic level because that’s our responsibility but now we’ve gotten into a space where we are creating a new ecosystem around technology, and this project and this program has now grown bigger than the actual U2C project.I mentioned earlier about a tier one manufacturer coming to Jacksonville, as part of the program we work with FSCJ, we have a partnership with them developing the curriculum for up and coming engineering students and students who want to work in this space, we’ve done that with Duval County Public Schools with roadshows, showing them these different types of vehicles, and then something that I’m really excited about is the ability to expand far beyond the U2C project and use this technology and some of our areas that are less dense, and frankly a 40 foot bus or light rail vehicle would be extremely wasteful in terms of using those technologies and using that type of public transportation to solve our issues. At the end of the day, we want to lead this industry, from a public transportation standpoint many of you around the country we’ve work with you the aces coalition, Scott, I mean thank you for the leadership, pulling all of us together so that we learn together and we lift our transportation in this community and in this country to the standards that I think is dignified and what our communities deserve. And so with that, that’s the vision in terms of the U2C project and how we got to where we are today and once again, thank you for being here, it is not a easy journey, but with the partnerships that we formed here throughout the nation and around the world, we’re gonna deliver this project and it’ll be something that we all can be very very proud of, so with that, thank you and I’m available for any additional questions.
Councilman Johnson: Now I will tell you, I’m not gonna take it easy on you. I know we know each other but I’m gonna ask the tough questions because I did get my training in journalism and I am a journalist by trade so I will be asking those questions (Nat Ford: No worries.), so I want to ask: why autonomous? I mean there’s so many other things. I know I’ve heard from my colleagues, I like, I’m an early adapter right? I like to see technology in the new things happening, there are those who were saying, light rail or commuter rail or even expansion of bus services is a way to go? Why autonomous and why now?Nat Ford: You know, about having the right service for the problem, right? For the challenge and when we look at light rail for example, we’re talking about in this case a 3 mile loop, let’s just use that 3 mile loop with a control center, and that control center could be expanded to manage hundreds of vehicles so when we talk about the ReadiRide zones and things of that nature, this control center can maintain all of that and operate all of that, so that’s a one-time kind of capital cost. In terms of the daily operations cost and initial capital investment, we’re talking in this particular case for 3 miles, $66 million so the average is about $30 million per mile for service. It’s a scalable service, we can add vehicles, subtract vehicles, and one of our largest cost drivers at the JTA is the operator in the seat and so that limits us financially in terms of how much service we can provide based on our budget and our taxpayers and fares actually cover that budget. If we look to the future in being able to provide more transportation for our community, we have to look at that operational cost and that capital cost. So I’ve heard, what about light rail? Let’s do light rail! Well, some of my colleagues are here in the room, when you talk about a $30 million per mile cost versus a $1 billion mile cost, I think the math speaks for itself. Do we need in Jacksonville, over 870 square miles with a severe lack of density, and our community, light rail would not be the right solution from a per passenger cost, that system, folks would ride into downtown, commuting to work in the morning and they would commute home, and during the day and in the evening we are still paying for that service. It’s not scalable. The tracks, the catenary wire that would have to be installed, billions of dollars that would be invested and you have that ongoing operation and maintenance cost. I’ve been fortunate. I’ve built pretty much every surface transportation mode that’s out there. I’d love to build rail in Jacksonville, but in this particular instance in Downtown Jacksonville and in your community, in the communities that are less dense, using a jackhammer to deal with a tack is overkill and I think it would be the wrong decision at this point. We are looking at rail, potentially regional rail, connecting the different cities within Northeast Florida, but a light rail solution, the ridership isn’t there and I think it’s disingenuous sometimes to throw that up as a substitute for this program because no one actually talks about the cost of that investment.Councilman Johnson: And it’s destructive, right? Our grandkids, I mean in our lifetimes, would we even see the realization of that?Nat Ford: I think frankly what I’m seeing with this technology is the flexibility, the scalability, the adaptability, why? Because you don’t have those fixed tracks and fixed stations so when we talk about downtown Jacksonville, we have the Bay Street Innovation Corridor and that 3 mile loop that 3 mile loop could be adjusted based on time of day, day of week, Jaguars game, Jumbo Shrimp baseball game, so we can adjust frequency, we can scale up and not have that operating cost that we actually deal with using the technology, and frankly it’s preparing for the future. Vehicles will get larger, more capacity, things of that nature.
Councilman Johnson: Let’s talk some specifics. We’re looking at a year launch, a year from now, I think we’re all ready for that because we’re chomping at the bit, but that leads us back to the other question. Based on the time that has been spent, are we behind schedule? Will we be on track to make it in time so that we launch and then we follow all of the other benchmarks?Nat Ford: Yeah, I’m very comfortable with our schedule, as when we actually applied for the BUILD grant and started what’s called 30% design-well, you guys are familiar-then 60% and 90% design. We are building a system that there’s no guidepost, there’s no template. You know if I was building, again, light rail or commuter rail, I can go to some of the cities that have built it, go see how they developed, it probably adopt the same vehicles, and just off we go. It will take a long time, but there’s a template. There’s a history. A hundred year history in terms of streetcars. So what happens in this particular case, we’re building something that’s never been built before, so I think there’s a certain level of grace and understanding in terms of innovating and inventing and the future and the benefit here is so great that the time we’re taking to do it, I think you measure three times with something like this and you cut once, we can’t afford to do it and fail because of the dependencies that everyone has on us.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/06/03/jta-will-use-retrofitted-ford-e-transit-vans-for-automated-vehicles/73647836007/
Councilman Johnson: Let’s talk vehicles. This is the Holon vehicle, that’s the one we’ve all seen about, we’ve heard about, but then I’m also hearing in the research that I’ve done that those will not be the ones that will be operating, so the question then comes back, is it truly an autonomous vehicle?Nat Ford: These are questions that have come up. So the Ford E-Transit vehicle, with a autonomous kit bolted onto it, is an autonomous vehicle that can get to level four operation, and level four for the late people is clearly no human intervention, the vehicle drives itself. We are a hundred percent supportive of Buy America and putting Americans to work to build this infrastructure and build this system. Because our project is a permanent deployment with a federal grant, we have to comply with certain rules and regulations related to vehicle crashworthiness, related to Buy America clauses, and to make sure we don’t miss our schedule with our grant because it has a timeline, we had to make a tough decision to say we’re going to go with the retrofitted vehicle, which accomplishes the mobility, the primary goal here is autonomous mobility, this vehicle accomplishes it. We also do recognize that there is going to be entrance into the US market with purpose-built vehicles designed specifically for these types of deployments, and when that time comes, we’ll make a decision and adjustment, but we are not going to lose our timeline and lose our federal grant because we are looking at aesthetics and things of that nature. So the technology, the mobility, that’s what key to us, and then the aesthetics, they’ll come at the appropriate time.Councilman Johnson: I believe that Buy American influence and the other things, that’s one of the things that help the economy of the city.Nat Ford: And you and I talk very frankly, I do not like the shade that is thrown on the Ford E-Transit. It’s built by Americans. The Buy America, Build America is not a democratic or republican policy. It’s been a consistent policies. It is Americans working in Michigan and other parts of this country to build these vehicles and I think this is just our trajectory in our timeframe as Americans to introduce this technology, and so I say that for the record, we will comply with Buy America.
Councilman Johnson: It’s National AV Day but right now the world is watching, from around the world, with the industry leaders here, the autonomous ecosystem here at JTA, how can they get more involved, and will we be the leader here in North Florida, of that autonomous movement?Nat Ford: Well, that’s what we’re enjoying so much, the partnership and being, I guess, the tip of the spear, as it relates to introducing this technology. It is not easy, it’s been tough. Every day I have to pump up Kiet and Greer, stay the course, don’t worry about it, don’t get distracted, stay the course, but the value to our community is so great. Mobility is the key to a greater community, and so what we’re doing here at the JTA, we’ll do the tough job, working with our partners. We’re not alone, we didn’t get here alone, that’s why this room is filled, I think you all agree, what we are attempting to deploy here, is a game changer. This is the most transformative time in transportation since going from horse and buggy to the combustion engine and the automobile, and for us to be part of this transformation, it’s a legacy that we all can be proud of, and help deal with education issues, healthcare issues, it’s far beyond the technology. It’s about improving the quality of people’s lives, and we are gonna help them get to good healthcare, we’re gonna help them get to that education opportunity, we’re gonna help them get to that job that they desire, and that’s our role and responsibility as professionals.
Emily Turner, Action News: You talk about the BUILD Grant, the money disappearing at the end of September of next year, your substantial completion date is just 90 days out from that, so far only about 8 percent of this project has been reimbursed from the federal grant thus far. How you make sure that local taxpayers at the end of this are not the ones left footing the bill?Nat Ford: By completing the project on time in June of 2025, that is our strategy. We’re working very hard at doing that and I feel very comfortable we’re there in terms of the development of the project. With a lot of these projects, as most of you know in the room in terms of engineering, design work, there is this slow buildup, and in this particular case we had the FTA, I talked to the FTA Administrator this morning and we had the regional FTA administrator here this week, they understand the implications of what we’re doing and the complexity of what we’re doing. They have been involved in discussions, whether Buy America was required or we could get an extension or a waiver. They were involved when we talk about FMVSS and having a compliant vehicle that is roadworthy, and so some of the delays or decisions that were made were our own doing, and we were doing it in transparency with the governing bodies, be it FDOT or FTA, so I think we are in a good place to deliver the project by 2025.Councilman Johnson: And part of those dollars, I wanna jump in a bit, yes there’s some funds coming from- Nat Ford: Feds, funds from Florida DOT, funds from JTA capital reserves, so it is a- Councilman Johnson: But it’s technology, technology takes time to develop. Nat Ford: Exactly, I think this is not unusual for most projects and particularly when you’re talking about a project that there is no template. There is no template, but the actual benefits are so far, so far, I think in the future, the benefits we see in the long term, I think that everyone is very understanding. Most people are very understanding of the complexity of what it is taking to develop this project.
Mauricio La Plante, Jacksonville Business Journal: You mentioned just now there’s no template, and you are citing the ridership that isn’t there for light rail, so with this, I mean, how do you try and build ridership, especially if it’s mainly in the Downtown core, which as you said, mainly only has an employee presence from 9 to 5 every day, so what are you doing to build ridership, is this just banking on 8 Jaguars home games during the season, or what are you going to do to build ridership within an area that is not densely populated every day?Nat Ford: That’s a very good question, and so one of the things we had to look at was the ridership projections as it related to getting the BUILD grant. The FTA is really, I mean, pretty restrictive as it relates to their investment, if they don’t see potential ridership. The interesting thing that happened, when we did the skyway advisory committee, it was clear. Downtown Jacksonville, there was going to be an influx and growth of development in Downtown Jacksonville. So now when you look at the Bay Street Corridor, you have a Four Seasons that’s under construction right now, the Sports and Entertainment complex around the stadium. Do you also have MOSH that’s coming into this area, we have the Naval Museum that’s coming into that area, and there was a discussion at that time about also a convention center, so there is infill development and plans for reinvigorating the waterfront on the Northbank that clearly we think-light rail might not be the proper solution for it but autonomous vehicles of the right size with the right frequency that we can adjust based on events or based on population is a much more efficient solution and flexible solution than putting in the permanency of rails and overhead catenary wire and buying, you know, very large light rail vehicles so we feel that this gives us the flexibility, depending on the future of growth patterns, travel patterns. It is really in some cases a technological adjustment in terms of the mapping of routes versus the fixed infrastructure that comes with some of the older, conventional types of transportation modes.
QuoteCouncilman Johnson: Now I will tell you, I’m not gonna take it easy on you. I know we know each other but I’m gonna ask the tough questions because I did get my training in journalism and I am a journalist by trade so I will be asking those questions (Nat Ford: No worries.), so I want to ask: why autonomous? I mean there’s so many other things. I know I’ve heard from my colleagues, I like, I’m an early adapter right? I like to see technology in the new things happening, there are those who were saying, light rail or commuter rail or even expansion of bus services is a way to go? Why autonomous and why now?Nat Ford: You know, about having the right service for the problem, right? For the challenge and when we look at light rail for example, we’re talking about in this case a 3 mile loop, let’s just use that 3 mile loop with a control center, and that control center could be expanded to manage hundreds of vehicles so when we talk about the ReadiRide zones and things of that nature, this control center can maintain all of that and operate all of that, so that’s a one-time kind of capital cost. In terms of the daily operations cost and initial capital investment, we’re talking in this particular case for 3 miles, $66 million so the average is about $30 million per mile for service. It’s a scalable service, we can add vehicles, subtract vehicles, and one of our largest cost drivers at the JTA is the operator in the seat and so that limits us financially in terms of how much service we can provide based on our budget and our taxpayers and fares actually cover that budget. If we look to the future in being able to provide more transportation for our community, we have to look at that operational cost and that capital cost. So I’ve heard, what about light rail? Let’s do light rail! Well, some of my colleagues are here in the room, when you talk about a $30 million per mile cost versus a $1 billion mile cost, I think the math speaks for itself. Do we need in Jacksonville, over 870 square miles with a severe lack of density, and our community, light rail would not be the right solution from a per passenger cost, that system, folks would ride into downtown, commuting to work in the morning and they would commute home, and during the day and in the evening we are still paying for that service. It’s not scalable. The tracks, the catenary wire that would have to be installed, billions of dollars that would be invested and you have that ongoing operation and maintenance cost. I’ve been fortunate. I’ve built pretty much every surface transportation mode that’s out there. I’d love to build rail in Jacksonville, but in this particular instance in Downtown Jacksonville and in your community, in the communities that are less dense, using a jackhammer to deal with a tack is overkill and I think it would be the wrong decision at this point. We are looking at rail, potentially regional rail, connecting the different cities within Northeast Florida, but a light rail solution, the ridership isn’t there and I think it’s disingenuous sometimes to throw that up as a substitute for this program because no one actually talks about the cost of that investment.Councilman Johnson: And it’s destructive, right? Our grandkids, I mean in our lifetimes, would we even see the realization of that?Nat Ford: I think frankly what I’m seeing with this technology is the flexibility, the scalability, the adaptability, why? Because you don’t have those fixed tracks and fixed stations so when we talk about downtown Jacksonville, we have the Bay Street Innovation Corridor and that 3 mile loop that 3 mile loop could be adjusted based on time of day, day of week, Jaguars game, Jumbo Shrimp baseball game, so we can adjust frequency, we can scale up and not have that operating cost that we actually deal with using the technology, and frankly it’s preparing for the future. Vehicles will get larger, more capacity, things of that nature.
