Author Topic: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....  (Read 32546 times)

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1532
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #120 on: January 24, 2022, 11:40:13 PM »
Frankly, I don’t really understand how the statement could be true. Clearly they’d taken some liking to the Olli, as it’s what they put in most of the renderings (including the website redesign they just did) and what they used to show off the tires from the deal with Goodyear. I don’t know about all of you, but something tells me they aren’t going to use the van as their production, revenue-service autonomous shuttle. So unless they go back to the EasyMile shuttle that leaves only the Navya, or some hypothetical vehicle we haven’t seen and they haven’t tested.

I’d forgotten to mention, I watched JTA’s board meeting last week and the cost of Bay Street has gone up. Reportedly only by $5 million, to $49 million total but it’s the number they plan to put in the final contract with Balfour Beatty V2R. That’s supposed to pass on the 27th.

I wonder what they even do with all the Olli shuttles at this point. Presumably they’re useless because they won’t be a production vehicle, but do you just leave it in a yard or something? Maybe cannibalize the $10,000 LIDAR sensors?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

jaxlongtimer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #121 on: January 25, 2022, 12:21:08 AM »
^ Will be interesting to see how many potential JTA vendors are left standing by the time JTA says they are "ready" for a full fledged system.  What if every last one drops out?

How many Skyway-type vendors are left today for JTA to look at if they wanted to maintain that type system?  I know the original one left the business long ago forcing JTA to scavenge for parts or make their own.  Will the same fate befall the AV system they implement (if ever)?  Could it be that private autonomous "car-like" vehicles prevail over the multi-person "pod" looking vehicles JTA is focused on?

jaxoNOLE

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2022, 09:52:55 AM »
Frankly, I don’t really understand how the statement could be true.

If it is true, then they aren't learning anything. They just observed a real-life example of one of the biggest risks facing implementation of AVs in public transit and are brushing it off.

Quote
Clearly they’d taken some liking to the Olli, as it’s what they put in most of the renderings (including the website redesign they just did) and what they used to show off the tires from the deal with Goodyear. I don’t know about all of you, but something tells me they aren’t going to use the van as their production, revenue-service autonomous shuttle. So unless they go back to the EasyMile shuttle that leaves only the Navya, or some hypothetical vehicle we haven’t seen and they haven’t tested. [...] I wonder what they even do with all the Olli shuttles at this point. Presumably they’re useless because they won’t be a production vehicle, but do you just leave it in a yard or something? Maybe cannibalize the $10,000 LIDAR sensors?

Ironic, because the vans seem to make the most sense. From a customer-adoption perspective, on initial launch they will appear no different than a standard shuttle, so public mistrust should be minimized. They're built by a company focused on public transit and cargo delivery. And, should the AV technology fail to realize its potential, the vehicles aren't totally useless -- they're set up to be driven by a real driver, not just monitored by an "attendant". I certainly hope they aren't making these decisions based on which vehicles look the coolest.

icarus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 401
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #123 on: January 30, 2022, 01:08:04 PM »
I wont bore anyone with repeating the profanities that immediately escaped my lips upon reading this headline. I for the life of me cant understand why would we would spend roughly $40 million a mile on experimental technology at best and that will serve no one at worst.

We have real infrastructure needs in Jacksonville and real mobility issues that $400 million would go a long way toward solving.  The entire JTA Board should resign in shame.


[url]https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jta-signs-dollar49-million-contract-with-balfour-beatty-for-skyway-replacement/[url]

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33380
    • Modern Cities
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #124 on: January 30, 2022, 01:52:55 PM »
It's crazy that this thing started off as being an affordable option. Now, it's quickly becoming one of the most expensive and with the most risk. What's really puzzling is this one doesn't appear to have the support of those they hope will one day use it.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1914
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #125 on: February 25, 2022, 09:11:08 PM »
This is one issue where I agree with Cumber - opposition to the U2C.  As a result of her opposition, she voted against Aundra Wallace for a seat on the JTA board:

Quote
.......Aundra Wallace

After five years as the DIA CEO, Wallace succeeded Jerry Mallot as JAXUSA president in October 2018.

JAXUSA is the economic development division of JAX Chamber. The DIA is responsible for governing Downtown development.

Wallace will replace JTA board member Nicole Padgett.

He will serve the remainder of her term that ends May 31, 2023.

Council member LeAnna Cumber was the sole vote against Wallace’s appointment at the Council Rules Committee and at Council.

During Wallace’s confirmation interview with the committee Feb. 15, Cumber said her vote was related to her opposition to the cost of JTA’s Skyway modernization called the Ultimate Urban Circulator.

Cumber agreed Wallace does “great work” for the chamber and is qualified for the appointment.

But Cumber said she didn’t like  Wallace’s responses to questions at the committee.

He declined to support a cap to the U2C’s growing cost and he did not take issue with the JTA board approval of a single-response bid to design and build the project’s first phase.

“I’m going to look at the numbers. I’m going to talk to staff, and we’re going to see if we got the best cost available. And we’re going to make informed decisions,” Wallace said.

“As a board member of JTA, we’ll make that decision collectively.”

The transportation authority estimates the entire 10-mile automated vehicle network will cost $379 million to $400 million.

Wallace worked in two other metropolitan areas, Detroit and Miami-Dade County, that were part of the federal pilot program for monorail “people movers” in the 1980s that funded the Downtown elevated Skyway.

Wallace was executive director of the Detroit Land Bank Authority and a senior vice president at the North Carolina Community Development Initiative.

In Miami-Dade County, he served in roles focused on community and economic development.

Wallace told the Rules Committee that he will press JTA to have a transportation network competitive with Southeastern U.S. cities including Orlando, Tampa, Nashville, Atlanta and Charlotte, North Carolina.

“Those cities have viable public transportation networks to make sure that economic development is equitable — that no matter what census tract, no matter what ZIP code you live in, you have the ability to ascertain meaningful, gainful employment and have a way to get there, even if you do not own transportation yourself,” Wallace said.

Council member Aaron Bowman abstained from the vote. Bowman is JAXUSA senior vice president of business development and he reports to Wallace....

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/two-high-profile-names-return-to-city-service
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 11:05:47 PM by jaxlongtimer »

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1532
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #126 on: February 28, 2022, 09:43:46 PM »
Local Motors, once the manufacturer of what appeared to be JTA's favorite autonomous shuttle, is auctioning off their property in two weeks, including several Olli shuttles. If you're interested for some reason in buying hardware you'd rarely see for sale to consumers, and don't mind heading to Knoxville to pick it up, here's your chance.

https://svdisposition.hibid.com/catalog/349158/local-motors--2/?fbclid=IwAR328BWg0jNQuWfvGCy_rVOV9P2Whb6yfNYL92aj4soW7h63S22QUDmoLGU
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33380
    • Modern Cities
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #127 on: March 01, 2022, 07:57:10 AM »
Maybe JTA can pick up all the U2C rolling stock it desires for pennies on a dollar?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxoNOLE

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #128 on: March 01, 2022, 12:42:26 PM »
Maybe JTA can pick up all the U2C rolling stock it desires for pennies on a dollar?

Problem: Skyway rolling stock is obsolete and no longer supported by the manufacturer.
Solution: New rolling stock, also obsolete and no longer supported by the manufacturer, but that also requires massive infrastructure investment.

Sounds about right!  ;D

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1532
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #129 on: March 01, 2022, 01:24:11 PM »
Maybe JTA can pick up all the U2C rolling stock it desires for pennies on a dollar?

Problem: Skyway rolling stock is obsolete and no longer supported by the manufacturer.
Solution: New rolling stock, also obsolete and no longer supported by the manufacturer, but that also requires massive infrastructure investment.

Sounds about right!  ;D

This is going to sound kind of nuts, but since one of the big things about the Olli was that it was 3D printed, and they are auctioning at least some of the manufacturing equipment and quite a bit of the hardware, JTA could theoretically buy all that up and just build the vehicles themselves. Maybe if they make the self-driving work, which they seem confident they will, they could even sell them to other transit agencies and turn the whole enterprise into a revenue-generating operation.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33380
    • Modern Cities
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #130 on: March 01, 2022, 02:54:06 PM »
Yes, that's nuts, lol :-)
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxjags

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #131 on: March 01, 2022, 06:44:33 PM »
Unfortunately there will be no support now or in the future on sensors, electronics or software. Could dig a big hole that needs a large amount of money to install debug and maintain.

fsu813

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1390
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2022, 07:34:11 PM »
People interested in this subject can ask their questions to JTA's Director of Automatuon either in-person or Zoom this Friday, March 4th at the Jax Chamber Downtown Council meeting. Sign up for in-person & Zoom here:

https://m.signupgenius.com/#!/showSignUp/10c0c4ba5a929a0f5c70-jaxchamber16

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33380
    • Modern Cities
Re: Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....
« Reply #133 on: March 02, 2022, 08:28:39 PM »
I'm more interested in the realistic things we can achieve.  The type of projects that have the ability to benefit a larger cross section of our city.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali