Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....

[marcuscnelson]

I actually don’t think that’s particularly unreasonable, except for the fact that they want to do it for small shuttles instead of normal buses while connecting to a 70,000 seat stadium.

If anything, what’s silly is that it took them six years to decide they needed dedicated lanes instead of insisting that mixed traffic operation was possible.

[thelakelander]

That's the dilemma with deciding routes and selected technologies too early in the process. This type of technology isn't going to be embraced in mixed traffic. It also isn't going to work, as the challenges with autonomous vehicles operating in a real urban environment have not been overcome internationally.

Like other forms of transit, dedicated ROW/lanes, etc. are better. However, removal of parking on Bay Street would be detrimental to downtown businesses and property owners. If it were me, I'd slow down a bit and take a little time to vet a solution, mode and route that limits the negatives for all impacted.

[Captain Zissou]

It's often pointed out that city/downtown agencies lack a cohesive vision, and this is a perfect example.  Lori Boyer and DIA are trying to build a retail and nightlife district on Bay Street and this will make that nearly impossible.   

[thelakelander]

Yeah, removing all the parallel parking for seldom used AVs would be a disaster for the entertainment and dining district. They'd be better off attempting to remove a travel lane off Bay and Forsyth. It would still be a tight fit with challenges though.

[marcuscnelson]

That's the dilemma with deciding routes and selected technologies too early in the process. This type of technology isn't going to be embraced in mixed traffic. It also isn't going to work, as the challenges with autonomous vehicles operating in a real urban environment have not been overcome internationally.

Like other forms of transit, dedicated ROW/lanes, etc. are better. However, removal of parking on Bay Street would be detrimental to downtown businesses and property owners. If it were me, I'd slow down a bit and take a little time to vet a solution, mode and route that limits the negatives for all impacted.

In JTA’s infinite wisdom, they took away the option for that by seeking a competitive grant based specifically on implementing autonomous shuttles that comes with a deadline for implementation.

[thelakelander]

They can die on this vine, by sticking with AVs. It will make it a bit more challenging to come up with a viable routing solution, but the same complete streets process should be attempted. I would think, they would need to lose a travel lane, reduce the remaining lane widths, add the transit lane adjacent to the sidewalk, then shift the parallel parking to be located between the travel lanes and transit lane. A traffic separator would likely need to be installed between the transit lane and parallel parking. Depending on the width, their transit lane could probably double as a separated bicycle lane.

[marcuscnelson]

Something like this, perhaps?

[tufsu1]

Yeah, removing all the parallel parking for seldom used AVs would be a disaster for the entertainment and dining district. They'd be better off attempting to remove a travel lane off Bay and Forsyth. It would still be a tight fit with challenges though.

they asked and FDOT/COJ said no

[Charles Hunter]

When looking at the McCoys Landing application in the DDRB agenda (better zoom-in control), I saw this in the staff recommendation for a request to modify the Four Seasons development:

DDRB 2021-013 Modification
May 11, 2023
Page 9

RECOMMENDATION
Based on the foregoing, the Downtown Development Review Board Staff recommends
APPROVAL of MODIFICATIONS to application 2021-013, as follows:
1. Modifications shall be substantially similar to those provided within the application submittal
dated April 17, 2023.
2. Any approvals granted by the DDRB do not constitute approval of modifications to the
Redevelopment Agreement.
3. Conditions upon which the Final Approval was issued remain in effect:
(A) There are multiple plans affecting the project’s interaction with Gator Bowl Boulevard,
including the realignment of Gator Bowl Boulevard, and the JTA autonomous vehicle
lane configuration currently under design. Consequently, the development’s northern
boundary, including ingress and egress from Gator Bowl Boulevard, are not finalized.
Staff recommends that the developer continue to coordinate their design with the City’s
Traffic Engineer, the DIA, and Public Works;
(B) Continue to work with staff on the selection of the street furnishings including the
proposed street lights.
4. Staff recommends additional landscaping, or a similar treatment, be added to the walls of
the project that abut Metropolitan Park and the Riverwalk along the residential section of the building.

On a much more minor point, I also note the application refers to that street on the north side of the development as "Bay Street (formerly Gator Bowl Boulevard)" while the DDRB staff comments still refer to it as Gator Bowl Blvd.

[thelakelander]

Yeah, removing all the parallel parking for seldom used AVs would be a disaster for the entertainment and dining district. They'd be better off attempting to remove a travel lane off Bay and Forsyth. It would still be a tight fit with challenges though.

they asked and FDOT/COJ said no

Why would FDOT care? Nevertheless, this exposes another coordination problem. JTA, COJ and the DIA should have been working together to create a downtown master plan (or whatever we want to call it) that would also include the transportation component, based on a unified vision. It seems that does not exist if JTA is asking and receiving no's from partnering agencies this late in the game. Someone has dropped the ball.

[thelakelander]

When looking at the McCoys Landing application in the DDRB agenda (better zoom-in control), I saw this in the staff recommendation for a request to modify the Four Seasons development:

DDRB 2021-013 Modification
May 11, 2023
Page 9

RECOMMENDATION
Based on the foregoing, the Downtown Development Review Board Staff recommends
APPROVAL of MODIFICATIONS to application 2021-013, as follows:
1. Modifications shall be substantially similar to those provided within the application submittal
dated April 17, 2023.
2. Any approvals granted by the DDRB do not constitute approval of modifications to the
Redevelopment Agreement.
3. Conditions upon which the Final Approval was issued remain in effect:
(A) There are multiple plans affecting the project’s interaction with Gator Bowl Boulevard,
including the realignment of Gator Bowl Boulevard, and the JTA autonomous vehicle
lane configuration currently under design. Consequently, the development’s northern
boundary, including ingress and egress from Gator Bowl Boulevard, are not finalized.
Staff recommends that the developer continue to coordinate their design with the City’s
Traffic Engineer, the DIA, and Public Works;
(B) Continue to work with staff on the selection of the street furnishings including the
proposed street lights.
4. Staff recommends additional landscaping, or a similar treatment, be added to the walls of
the project that abut Metropolitan Park and the Riverwalk along the residential section of the building.

Yes, the access points are bit crazy, considering the half done Hart Bridge Expressway demo job and placement of those expressway ramps at APR. This development really needs a service drive with one main signalized access point, on the east side of the property. I'm not sure how that would change the overall site plan at this point to Bay Street.

[Captain Zissou]

Yes, the access points are bit crazy, considering the half done Hart Bridge Expressway demo job and placement of those expressway ramps at APR. This development really needs a service drive with one main signalized access point, on the east side of the property. I'm not sure how that would change the overall site plan at this point to Bay Street.

COJ required that the public marina access road be maintained, a public easement between the office and hotel for river access, an accommodation for a potential future AV lane, and a minimum site elevation that made a central access road impossible. 

[marcuscnelson]

Doesn't appear to have been mentioned here yet.

JTA is hosting (in partnership with Guident) a "National Autonomous Vehicle Day" event on May 31st at their U2C facility on Armsdale.

https://go.jtafla.com/navday23

There, "speakers, demonstrators and experts from around the world will showcase new and innovative Autonomous Vehicle (AV) technologies."

[jaxoNOLE]

[Jax_Developer]

https://www.jtafla.com/media/34fnjggb/move2027.pdf

1). How much was spent on this report?
2). Whatever amount, taxpayers need a refund.

I would bet real money 90% of the items in here don't happen anywhere near the intended date.